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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: backtracker on September 19, 2011, 09:53:31 PM

Title: Weird starting problem with 90 Kick
Post by: backtracker on September 19, 2011, 09:53:31 PM
Sometimes my Kick is hard to start, I unplug what I think is the injector and crank it over. I turns over and runs for a few seconds and shuts off due to no gas.
I then plug it back in and it runs like normal. Is the injector hooped?
There has not been any codes flashing on the dash.
Title: Re: Weird starting problem with 90 Kick
Post by: wildgoody on September 19, 2011, 10:26:28 PM
Might want to check the fuel pump or the relay,
I don't think the injector would do that.

Wild
Title: Re: Weird starting problem with 90 Kick
Post by: backtracker on September 19, 2011, 10:35:34 PM
Might want to check the fuel pump or the relay,
I don't think the injector would do that.

Wild

Why would the problem only show up intermittently if the pump was gone?
It runs great and accelerates fine with no miss or backfiring or anything odd like that.
How does the relay cause this problem?
Thanks, John
Title: Re: Weird starting problem with 90 Kick
Post by: backtracker on September 19, 2011, 11:16:03 PM
Might want to check the fuel pump or the relay,
I don't think the injector would do that.

Wild

Where is the fuel pump relay located??
Title: Re: Weird starting problem with 90 Kick
Post by: zuksofhazzard on September 20, 2011, 04:54:02 AM
There are 2 relays on the ECM, about 1" x 1" square, both parts are Identical.

I've had them "stick" in the past. I had a very unpredictable 1.6 8valve that drove me crazy chasing and testing parts. Turned out to be the relay.

Brent from Trail Tough said over time, they may get moisture and even a tiny bit of corrosion will have them stick, open or closed, I can't remember.

I think he sells used for $30 and I found new at $55 or so. (replace them both) ;)
Title: Re: Weird starting problem with 90 Kick
Post by: talonxracer on September 20, 2011, 06:17:42 AM
Sounds like a cold start injection issue.
Title: Re: Weird starting problem with 90 Kick
Post by: fordem on September 20, 2011, 06:27:13 AM
Assuming that what you are unplugging is in fact the injector, then it's more likely to be an injector problem than a relay or fuel pump problem.

A leaking injector can dribble fuel into the throttle body, flooding the engine so it doesn't start - the fact that it starts & runs for a few seconds with the "injector" unplugged indicates the presence of enough fuel to run the engine - a dirty injector with something contaminating the seat, preventing the pintle valve from sealing properly can do this.
Title: Re: Weird starting problem with 90 Kick
Post by: wildgoody on September 20, 2011, 08:22:35 AM
Unplugging and plugging back in the injector is a mute point, it's the same as turning off
the key, just cuts power.

You might also be victim of the dreaded ECU Capacitor problem, you have the right year
for that, but that would require removing the ECM, and the cover to inspect the circuit
board for corroded traces from the capacitor leaking.

A leaking injector would not create a cold start problem, the engine can use the fuel quite
easily as part of the cold start mixture, however it would create a hot start issue due to a
rich mixture that won't light off in the hot engine
 
You might need a friend to listen at the gas tank filler opening for the fuel pump running,
it can be hard to hear, but if it's running and it fails to start, you have another issue.

I had an old Volvo that had a bad/flaky fuel pump, once it was running it was fine, it was
just the starting that was a PITA, hit the key, hit the pump and hit the key again to start
before the relay stopped the pump.

I finally parked it for good and sold it for junk to Pic-a-Part

Wild
Title: Re: Weird starting problem with 90 Kick
Post by: backtracker on September 21, 2011, 06:42:06 PM
I have it in the shop right now, it isn't a for sure thing yet, but , it looks like the ECM may be causing the problem.
The ECM will be going out for a rebuild if it is faulty.....  $300 faulty. >:(
Thanks for the replies guys, there sure is a lot of knowledge on this site. I guess having the ECM go after 21 years really isn't unexpected.
I really like the Sidekick, it goes more places than the big 4x4's I have owned in the past. I like the big trucks for hauling wood and such, but for haulin' ass through the bush hunting and fishing, the lil Zook can't be beat.
Title: Re: Weird starting problem with 90 Kick
Post by: wildgoody on September 21, 2011, 07:08:08 PM
Don't send it out for $300, that's a crazy price, you can repair it yourself
or have a buddy that knows how to solder and about $3 in parts, hell a
case of Bud and some caps and your in business

Wild
Title: Re: Weird starting problem with 90 Kick
Post by: Mikerpm4x4 on September 21, 2011, 07:15:40 PM
Fuel pressure regulators are common to leak into the vaccum line :-\
Title: Re: Weird starting problem with 90 Kick
Post by: zuksofhazzard on September 22, 2011, 04:50:06 AM
I have a Good, Used, Rebuilt ECM if you need one.

Way better price than $300 for sure. ;)

Have them Diagnose it, then tell them you have to think about it, take it home, fix it yourself.
Title: Re: Weird starting problem with 90 Kick
Post by: backtracker on September 22, 2011, 07:04:05 PM
Sometimes my Kick is hard to start, I unplug what I think is the injector and crank it over. I turns over and runs for a few seconds and shuts off due to no gas.
I then plug it back in and it runs like normal. Is the injector hooped?
There has not been any codes flashing on the dash.

UPDATE , I had it diagnosed and the ECM showed no codes. The only problem they said they found was a bad connection of the plug wire that ran from the coil to the distributor. I guess this would interupt power to the plugs and not start, I hope it's fixed, I don't want to be out hunting and have the same problem.  The diagnostic and fix was only $45, not $300 for the ECM plus installation etc.
Title: Re: Weird starting problem with 90 Kick
Post by: wildgoody on September 22, 2011, 07:06:57 PM
The ECM doesn't show codes if it is bad, only if it reads
something is bad, O2, CLT, IAT, TPS sensors etc.

The check is to crack the box and check the caps and traces

Wild
Title: Re: Weird starting problem with 90 Kick
Post by: ranger88den on September 23, 2011, 07:49:07 AM
http://www.kick-fix.com/ECU/ECU.html (http://www.kick-fix.com/ECU/ECU.html)
Title: Re: Weird starting problem with 90 Kick
Post by: backtracker on September 25, 2011, 11:00:55 PM
I replaced all the plug wires with a new NGK OEM set, it runs perfect now.
I hope that cures the problem, thanks again for the help everyone, this is a great site.
I like it almost a much as my Sidekick. 8)
Title: Re: Weird starting problem with 90 Kick
Post by: backtracker on October 19, 2011, 01:57:29 PM
I replaced all the plug wires with a new NGK OEM set, it runs perfect now.
I hope that cures the problem, thanks again for the help everyone, this is a great site.
I like it almost a much as my Sidekick. 8)


I went to kick-fix.com, there is a lot of info there about Suzuki's. I found that the grounds on the engine were critical, the firewall has a ground for the battery that is critical, there is also two grounds for the ECU that are critical as well. There is a secondary ground for the ECU is on the housing for the thermostat. One other critical ground is the one at the base of the distributor, this one apparently runs the ECU. I cleaned up about six grounds in the engine bay and it sems to have cleared the starting problems. I have never had a vehicle with so many weird grounds for wiring, once I found them, it was an easy fix in the driveway. The kick-fix.com is a definite asset to Suzuki owners, check it out.