ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Performance / Modify => Topic started by: cyp_raziel on September 28, 2011, 04:34:37 AM
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hi all. i have a 1995 model 1.6 liter 8v suzuki sidekick. i am willing to buy a trail slayer kit from lowrangeofroad.com . recently i have a 3" suspension lift and 2.7" bodylift on my car. after purchasing trail slayer kit, i am thinking to put some 35" or 37" tires on my suzuki.
BUT I AM BUILDING THIS CAR FOR OFFROAD COMPETITION. we race both for "time" and "race track" therefore i need a good acceleration and a good torque to compete well.
i bought twin 40mm weber DCOE,
thinking to purchase:
performance exhaust manifold,
transfercase gears (do you know where i can get 6.10:1 gears ??)
272 cam shaft (DO YOU THINK THESE AND RING AND PINION CONVERSION WILL BE ENOUGH FOR ME TO COMPETE ??
my first question is which front and rear axles you suggest me ??
where i can find ring and pinion conversions for this axles ??
what i can do to 1.6 engine to run 37" tires ??
OR DO YOU SUGGEST ME another engine ?? IF YES, WHICH ENGINE ???? (i am thinking v6 at least 250-200hp)
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What type of competitions are you looking to run in and what class? You will want to take a look at the rule set and find out if switching to a V6 places you in a different class then running a 4cyl engine. And depending on the rules you may have displacement limitations as well.
Is this a rock crawling/racing, short track or endurance off-road racing? Also, what are the tire size limitations? Some series have 35" and under as a separate class, others require you to keep your stock style suspension system which would remove the strait axle swap as an option.
What sort of speeds are you looking at? 100+? Or will you be running 35mph top? What sort of competition are you going to be up against?
Working on Project Trouble with the Zukiworld Challenge has helped me learn that the key to a successful race project is planning. You need to know exactly what it is that you are going to build. Find out what your requirements are, check with other people in the same class, plan out your build, get all the parts and have them in the shop and then pick up a wrench.
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thanks for reply. we did nt have so many rules. two classes 2000cc and over 2000cc. there is no limitations as i know.
it is not rock crawling (but i love to do rock crawling) it is a race track which includes mud pools (not holes lol) inclines and declines, deep holes etc and we are racing for time therefore we need to go as fast as we can but also torque needed.
building a trail slayer is my dream project. this is why im bit confused. I need to find a solution to go fast enoguh (not more than 70-80mph. may be even less than that) and do rockcrawling in offroad trips hope this helps (is there any solution that you know to put v8 on sidekick and make it 4wd also im open for it but as far as i know we can only do up to v6)
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You can fit a 350 and Rockwells under a Sidekick if you want it hard enough, I just don't think going that large and heavy in a Suzuki is worth it. The key to a Suzuki is the fact that they are light, if your want a 3/4-ton drive-train in why not just get a 3/4 ton truck?
If you are looking to stay under the 2000cc limit you might want to look at the motor from a 99 and up Tracker. There is a good HP boost from your stick 1.6l and you can stay in the smaller class.
What sort of speeds are the current vehicles doing? What sort of trucks are currently being used in competition? What is the average speed vs top speed on the course? Are you looking at doing a lot of mud vs rocks? If so trying to keep the IFS might be a better choice, that way you keep the higher ground clearance and can put a long skid plate on front. A solid axle in front is just going to catch more mud.
Doing 70-80 down a dirt road in the desert can get really interesting with the short wheelbase, any decent bump you hit sends you off the side of the road. I can't see hitting a mud hole at 70+ being anything even close to a good thing.
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You are going to need more power, so you need a 1.6 16V engine with a turbo,
you are going to need better axles or you are going to be snapping the stockers
like twigs with 37s
I would suggest a Toyota axle swap and the trail slayer or home grown swap over
and an Undertaker with a 4.24 T-case gear set, that with the Toyota axles with a
gear range in the 500 range should do a good job turning those big meats
For what it's worth, I was going to do this buildup when I sold the 5.83 diffs and my
low range t-case setup, but lack of money and other circumstances have really messed
with my plans to the point that I wish I had left my very capable truck alone because
now it's in parts behind my friends house :(
Wild
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yeah i am thinking to do trail slayer kit in lowrangeoffroad.com (as mentioned before) but i do not think my current engine will help me to compete. i foun ford 4.0 liter sohc v6 engine. may be i ll put this one i do not know :S what engines you suggest me ?? also i am strugling to find axles. dana 60's or 44's could be beter or worse ???
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look up zukijames on many of the zuk forums and im sure he can help you out as he is looking to race his samurai with large tires I think. although I think alot of his races will be in the dirt and with some light rock crawling here in utah but im sure he can get you some pointers and you can also try pirate4x4.com for some more info too.
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You could always do a Suzuki V-6... Light weight and powerful enough to roll 37's at just about any speed ;)
http://www.zukiworld.com/month_020109/feature_suzuki-sidekick-build-up.htm (http://www.zukiworld.com/month_020109/feature_suzuki-sidekick-build-up.htm)
Zig
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Also check out the 'Rockstar' articles in the How-to-Archives and on the forum. Hagen built many capable rigs running the 1.6L motors with 35-39.5" tires by using a combo of weight reduction and gearing. If you want to stay in the 2.0L and under class, these would be a good read to give you some good info.
Zig
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And if you want INSANE performance, do a weight reduction, gearing, and a turbo 8) A rockstar style rig with a turbo would be INSANE!!!!!
Zig
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haha :D thanks zukipilot but no thanks. there will be MUD in the race track and i mean it :D i cant do this to my car i am not doing rockcrawling. any suggestions for axle conversion ??
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My Samurai will one day have a turbo diesel under the hood, VW TDI?
If you keep more simplistic and keep the 1.6, I would opt for the 16v direct port injected head, higher compression pistons, throw in a cam, header, electric fan/s, oil radiator, and build a 2.5 inch exhaust. Throwing any much more money into the motor and I'd start regretting my displacement choice.
An aluminum 4 cylinder 2.0L 16v turbocharged engine would be cream. If it meant the world to race at 80 threw mud one weekend and rock climbing the next, you could always get 2 turbo's.
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our country is hot and turbos cant compete well. also i do not know how to prevent water, mud etc.
other question is i will purchase trail slayer kit from lowrange.com do you know same kits ( or much better higher etc)
where i can find axles for this kit. which axles do you recomend
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For the trailslayer kit you will want to use Toyota Axles, that is what it is designed for. If you are going to go with anything larger/heavier then I would recommend just building a custom suspension from the start.
Are you looking to use full width axles?
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actually custom sounds nice but i do not know how to build higher and wider sidekick and also better articulation...
any suggestions ???? what you mean by "full with axles"
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If you do not have a shop with welder and tubing cutting equipment, go with a kit (like the trailslayer). Then when you need more power and speed, go for a bigger motor.
Zukipilot is right, "You could always do a Suzuki V-6... Light weight and powerful enough to roll 37's at just about any speed." It is also fun to have that power at your throttle all the time, normal Zuk's are so anemic once you have a V6, or Turbo'd motor.
It is a tight fit, and wiring is complicated. But any computer controlled motor swap is going to require time to resolve wiring issues.
To stay in the 2000 cc class, I would use the Suzuki Aerio 2.0L motor. We installed one in Drone637's Race Car, and it has 155 hp (almost doubling the power). It is smaller and lighter than the V6. You have to get some parts off a Tracker/Vitara 2.0L motor, and still have the computer and wiring issues to solve, but fitting it in is much easier. If you get one that had a manual transmission, you should be able to run it without any standing computer codes.
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i have a shop with welder and tube cutting but i need you to explain me how to do it with details.
ALSO ANY SUGGEST?ONS FOR AXLES ?
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Have you actually done any of the mods suggested yet? Is this just a dream rig or actually going somewhere? Progress pics?
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pfff JLUCK I THINKG YOU NEED TO READ ALL STUFF !!! yes i ve the photos uploaded in other discussions. and its not a dram rig. i ve calmini suspension and body lift now but i didnt satisfied. therefore ill purchased the lowrange trail slayer kit soon (aftersort out the axle problem)
SO CAN ANYONE TELL ME SOME PLACE TO FIND RELEVANT AXLES ??? (OR DANA 60'S CAN BE FITTED ??)
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Soooo.....pics?
The trailslayer is set up for Toyota pickup axles (leaf sprung). Get some and go. If that's just not "enough" get spidertrax 9's(that's my plan). If you don't want the axles the kit is designed for get out the welder,tape measure and angle finder and put in whatever floats your boat.simple. this probably still don't give you the info you seek but I put in my time. ;)
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Based on READING the trail slayer info, you need 55.5" wide solid axle for the front (79-85) and a 58" wide axle for the rear (86-95).
You will also need new wheels (obvious) for the 6 lug axles with different backspacing.
Here you can see some toyota axle widths and other specs; http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/faq/parts/ (http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/faq/parts/)
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pfff JLUCK I THINKG YOU NEED TO READ ALL STUFF !!! yes i ve the photos uploaded in other discussions. and its not a dram rig. i ve calmini suspension and body lift now but i didnt satisfied. therefore ill purchased the lowrange trail slayer kit soon (aftersort out the axle problem)
SO CAN ANYONE TELL ME SOME PLACE TO FIND RELEVANT AXLES ??? (OR DANA 60'S CAN BE FITTED ??)
have you decided on a powerplant? possibly a different drivetrain? what trans and transfercase will decide what easily goes in and what doesnt. old toyota axles are the easiest to fit with the zuk drivetrain, but are still going to have to be beefed up for the tire size, if you are going to change to a 4.3 out of a blazer than dana axles maybe narrowing them might be the way to go... but you need to decide what direction you want to start on to before you buy half of the things than find out its going to be too weak or overkill
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Axles from a full sized truck.
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yeah my direction is 4.0 liter v6 now (sohc) the thing is i need to sort out the axle problem.. then double beadlock wheels
ANY LINKS ???
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Do you mean the Ford V6? If so at this point your looking at just building a Ford Ranger, then putting it under a Tracker body. I would plan on just cutting your existing drivetrain out and replacing it with the drivetrain from the donor vehicle.
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yeah thats sound ok for me... but WHICH donor car ??? also what u think about unsued 2000 4.0 liter v6 ?? any suggestions for engine ??
i need an axle that i can easyly find a place to lock rear axle and also change the gear pinion ratios
SUGGESTIONSS ??
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If your building a custom drive-train to run 37" tires then it's hard to go wrong with a Ford 9" or Dana 60 rear end.
Once again, you are building a completely custom rig here. So you need a transmission, transfer case, front and rear axle, and to design the entire suspension system.
The largest store bought engine conversion that I know of is Lighting Conversions, they sell a 4.3L conversion for the Tracker, but if you want to run a Ford v8 you will likely have to do everything from scratch. It will not be a quick or easy build, it will probably be very time consuming and require a lot of welding and wiring. Especially if you are getting the motor from a donor car and not buying a brand new turn-key engine.
Did you ever figure out what type of vehicles you will be competing against?
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can you please send me a link where i can buy a conversion kit for 4.3 ?
has any body got any idea for transfercase and axles etc ??
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cyp_raziel,
Have you actually tried to read any of the responses already provided?
They answer *all* of your vague questions in a very polite manner.
There have also been questions posed to you which have NOT been answered.
If the answers are not clear enough because english isn't your first language then ask for SPECIFIC clarifications.
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I was keeping this link secret and I don't think anybody else knows about it ::)(like a "secret" fishing spot). this link contains all of the answers you desire.
http://www.google.com/ (http://www.google.com/)
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Hey Cyp the Trail Tough kit is for "rock crawling" not racing. There isn't enough upward travel for the heavy hits your going to experience when racing. Lots of downward travel, some 30 inches of total travel. Call Trail Tough and discuss what your needs are.
Ed
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READ!!!
Two things you need to do before taking this thing much farther,
#1. Ask your self few questions: How long do I want this build to take? How much $$ do I have to put in to it? And if it will be worth all the time and $$ as for how it will perform? (This will narrow down a lot of questions)
#2. Start a build thread with lots picture's (pic's will help us answer your questions and it's going to look really cool when you finish it so it would be nice to see what you're starting with) and maybe a few rough blueprints of what you want it to look like (ride hight, wheel base, axle width etc).