ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Model Specific Suzuki Forum => Suzuki Grand Vitara, Vitara, Chevy Tracker (Gen. 2 Platform) 1999-2005 => Topic started by: nprecon on October 15, 2011, 07:42:49 AM
-
Well I had intended to simply upgrade my suspension. Got the back springs and shocks in on Monday afternoon then started on the front end installation the next day. As I started pulling parts off it occurred to me with 150K on the truck there were parts that were obviously shot and needed replaced and several others were questionable or I knew would be questionable within days, weeks or a few months after I had completed the suspension installation (cause that's Murphy's law). While I was disassembling the suspension I noticed (for the third time) that my radiator was again leaking. I really love the peeps at O'Reilly, they are very good people, but I have to wonder about the quality control of the Murray brand radiators they carry. I don't know if i got a bad production run for 2 Liter Trackers, or if others have had similar experiences.
-
I started taking the front end apart. I noticed both lower floating caliper pins were almost seized, so I put the caliper plate in the vice, worked the pins loose with vice grips, then cleaned them both well on a wire wheel, cleaned out the throats and coated both surfaces with anti-seize compound and reassembled with new rubber boots to protect the pins from the elements. The right front strut mount was totally toasted and had separated.
-
I had intended to replace both front diff carrier seals... but it occurred to me I had it all stripped down so I decided to go ahead and install the 4.88 gear set and step up from the stock 4.62 gears. I had the actuator ring spot welded on the diff so I shouldn't have the worry of either the pump or the acutator diaphragm rupturing in the future causing the loss of the front wheel drive.... which would cause me to have to again disassemble the front end to correct/repair/replace a part.
-
Reassembled the front end with new A-arms, CVs, strut mounts, sway bar bushings and Moog links and installed the new struts and springs.
-
I had the local Meineke install my initial Hoepkers coil spring spacer lift FOUR years ago and when I removed my front springs I discovered they had dis-carded my original coil spring isolators... so I decided to use the front coil spacers for isolators and my neighbor cut them down for this purpose with his lathe. They are 3/8' thick which may be an 1/8th thicker than the stock rubber isolators... but I wanted to ensure the springs remained separated (isolated) from the steel of the coil pockets to prevent noise and erosion of the spring pocket metal. With the front carrier actuator ring welded I needed to install manual locking hubs so the wheels could roll independently of the axle.
-
Are those struts OME and do they come with the boots?
-
Yes they are OME but the boots were not part of the price (sadly). Boots should be a part of any strut to protect the piston surface. But they don't come with them?
-
I had the local Meineke install my initial Hoepkers coil spring spacer lift FOUR years ago and when I removed my front springs I discovered they had dis-carded my original coil spring isolators... so I decided to use the front coil spacers for isolators and my neighbor cut them down for this purpose with his lathe. They are 3/8' thick which may be an 1/8th thicker than the stock rubber isolators... but I wanted to ensure the springs remained separated (isolated) from the steel of the coil pockets to prevent noise and erosion of the spring pocket metal. With the front carrier actuator ring welded I needed to install manual locking hubs so the wheels could roll independently of the axle.
Were those polyurethane spacers? If they were I would suggest you reinspect the installation in a few months time - I've had poly bushings trimmed on a lathe simply crumble & disintegrate - they seem to need a very sharp knife.
-
I got the front end re-assembled. A couple notes from my recent experience (from the point of NOT being anyway near a professional tech person).
The front bolts securing the A-arms will be seized in the bushing sleeve and unless someone knows some magic they require cutting out to remove/replace the A-arm. I coated the new A arm bolts and the sleeves with anti-seize compound so should I have to dis-assemble the front end in the future no bolt cutting should be required. All the final tightening of the suspension parts (A-arms, sway bar, etc) should be performed with the vehicle weight resting on the ground.
Removing the CV shafts.... I used a GM tool which is simply a yoke shaped piece of steel which is wide enough to slide into the passenger side gap between the CV and housing. Then you pry while rotating the Cv to ensure you center up the "C" clip in the diff. How much force does it require? Gorilla arms help. On the drivers side inner shaft I used the same yoke tool with the addition of a 1 1/2 pound hammer. Same deal, rotate shaft between love taps to remove the shaft. Reverse assembly was a bit different. The passenger side popped right in with little effort. The driver side required a few stiff blows with a dead blow hammer. The driver side housing seal required seating deeper than the passenger side because the driver side inner axle flange is very close to the housing.
-
No, the coil spacers Jeff Hoepkers sells are built out of molded UHW (?) when I removed the spacers (after 4 years and about 70K+ miles) there was no cracking or chipping evident, and the only impression I found on them is where the upper pigtail of the spring imprinted into the UHW(?) about 1/16th of an inch. This stuff is tough!
You can actually see the slight impression of the spring in the above pic.
-
Self-inflicted wound, but I had Buster up on jack stands for about two weeks during the upgrades. I used rockauto.com for many of the parts and I can highly recommend them to anyone. I also used NAPA on line, and although they DID deliver quality parts... it took about a week+ to receive them. Part of this delay I am sure is the simple fact that our trucks are not really mainstream vehicles. We are a bit of freaks as are our trucks, I guess. Receipt of all the parts would have been MUCH more timely if I had realized everything I ended up replacing up front BEFORE the project began.
For example, I decided to go ahead and purchase the timing chain set.... when I pulled the radiator. Well, I still have it, but haven't installed it yet. Pulling the radiator is a piece of cake on these trucks. Pulling it for the 4th time should be quite a bit quicker.
Anyway, so I had the suspension installed, the front end parts replaced, cleaned, etc and Buster back on his wheels. I had difficulty getting the washer AND the snap ring back onto the passenger side CV axle. I ended up polishing a few thousands off both washer and snap ring, slid them back over the spline, reached in to the CV and spun it by hand about 3/4 of a turn and heard the snap ring 'pop' into place. That was a relief.
So that left installation of the rear 4.88 gears.....
-
A couple days ago I took Buster down to my local hero... Norm Day who STILL operates the station that has been in his family for over 80 years. Norm Day's main claim to fame is he began NHRA racing his personally modified '55 Chevy in the late '50s until 1969 and then moved to fuelers, funny cars, etc, and has worked and raced with the biggies like Don Garletts, TV Tommy Ivo, etc. Norm Day was custom designing and building his own small block Chevy intake manifolds before the big name companies like Edelbrock and Wiend were in to it. He raced in North America and a couple times in Europe as well. He was hurting people on the strip with his '55 too. He still owns it.
Well, the truth of the matter is drum brakes drive me crazy. I cannot, for the life of me get the hang of how they are assembled.... so the damned brake will work correctly when I am done (that's kind of important to me). Anyway... off I went to Norm's place. He has a guy working for him named Don and this guy eats, sleeps and probably showers thinking about turning wrenches on autos. He is a really good man and I enjoy his company a lot. Long story short, got the 4.88 gears into the back of Buster... and Don persuaded me to go ahead and install the Richmond Gear Lock Right locker (I've had for over a year) into the diff. I had been on and off again about installing this thing into my rear diff. I decided to go ahead and install it. I was concerned that when I opened up the diff to remove the spyder gears and install the drivers I would find either the axle drive gears were excessively worn OR I'd need another or different shim, etc. BLUF: The ring, pinion, axle gears were in GREAT shape and literally (beyond cleaning the parts and keeping track of caps and bearings - left and right) the install was slick. The axles pulled out easy enough without disconnecting the emergency brake. We just pulled the drum, unbolted the 4 axle retaining bolts on the back side of the hub, pried up on the brake spring while we popped it two or three times with a slide hammer and out she came so no disassembly of the rear brakes was even required. While the axles were out we cleaned and re-packed the axle shaft bearings and installed new seals. Was able to pull out slightly on the rear brake assembly to pry the seal out and clean the area for the new seal. Same with applying RV sealer on the mating surfaces during reassembly. The final piece I have to complete is running studs into the hubs to secure the WARN hubs securely. Bolts don't get the job done. They walk on you. I also purchased a threading tool (8 X 1.25) to clean out the holes before I install the studs and locktite them in.
-
Final comments and thoughts:
These little trucks are really well built for the cost. Yes, there are some cheesy "yuppie inspired" parts like the air actuated front diffs... but still these trucks are impressive. 12 bolt ring gears in the rear for example. I wish the axles were as thick throughout their length as they are at the wheels. They would be MONSTERS. Norm Day came up and was checking the run out of the ring gear and he was impressed with how tight the diff was, giving the fact it had over 100K on it. He was very impressed.
OME suspension - I had the OME springs under one of my trucks before and I liked them. The whole system together is very nice. Very firm yet comfortable ride and they eat up the bumps in the road.
The 4.88 gear upgrade from the 4.62s... I like it. I run 235/75 series tires and the 4.88s put me right back 'on the money' with my speedo. The other side affect of course is I have also regained more mechanical advantage in my 4-low range as well.
Richmond Gear Lock-Rite locker... I am surprised to say it behaves very well on the road. I ran Buster with the rear axle suspended in the air for about five minutes to get the lube circulated through the diff gears. Then I took Buster out to Norm's gravel parking lot after the install and proved it does indeed lock up the rear axle. Locking in the front diff, giving it the gas... it just goes with little to no gravel thrown. I do notice the occasional ratcheting sound when cornering. It is very slight and I don't hear it at each turn. Richmond Gear stated this is the sound of their Lock Right working as it should. No biggie at all. I have had a couple of loud pops when the locker unloads... but all in all so far, I am glad I went ahead and installed it. Awaiting winter to see how predictable it drives on snow covered roads.
-
Yes they are OME but the boots were not part of the price (sadly). Boots should be a part of any strut to protect the piston surface. But they don't come with them?
I just checked my GV - the front struts have a plastic sleeve over the piston rod - sort of like the metal sleeve that's on the rear shocks, but made of plastic. I had assumed that the front struts were OEM but now I have to conclude they are probably not. I will most likely be ordering OME struts for the front in November - I already have the rear shocks sitting on the shelf here - I guess I'll order boots from LowRange offRoad at the same time I order the struts.
Edit - spelling coorection.
-
I'm thinking the original struts on Suzukis and Trackers did have a sleeve over the piston (as you described), so those may well be OEM. I recall trying to get the strut shaft out of the strut mount when I had the lift installed on Buster four years ago. The old struts HAD a sleeve over them, but I couldn't get the two separated so I ended up buying the after market accordion style covers (like in the above pics) for the new struts. I've ran a set for four years now and they have held up great. Even on the side I continually blew struts on.
If your strut shafts separate cleanly from your strut mounts you should be able to slide those covers off the old struts and slide them back onto the new struts. But then again the OME struts MAY have a larger diameter body on them. I have not actually checked this, but it occurred to me this may be true. I know the rear nitrogen OME shocks were chubbies compared to standard size shocks.
The OME shocks have a 2 year warranty as well.
-
I know the OME rears are quite a bit larger than the stock - I have those sitting here already - in fact - when I first looked at them, I had doubts as to if they would clear the axle, but, a close look says they probably will.
As far the front goes - I was looking at a build thread on an Australian forum yesterday and noticed that they have the same plastic sleeves and they reused them with the OME struts - still given the uncertainty, the low price of the boots and the fact that finding a suitable boot here would likely be challenging - the easiest way is to get a pair from Low Range Off Road along with the struts - I can ask Sean to confirm that they fit.
-
Good thought.
-
The front bolts securing the A-arms will be seized in the bushing sleeve and unless someone knows some magic they require cutting out to remove/replace the A-arm. I coated the new A arm bolts and the sleeves with anti-seize compound so should I have to dis-assemble the front end in the future no bolt cutting should be required. All the final tightening of the suspension parts (A-arms, sway bar, etc) should be performed with the vehicle weight resting on the ground.
Actually, i've read about this problem removing the A arm bolts before on here...so when i replaced my a arms a couple months ago i sprayed penetrating oil on them every day for 4 days prior to removing them (and drove it every day) . They came out easily with the impact :P However i tightened them to the correct torque setting while the truck was on jackstands not with its full weight on the ground as you mentioned above...hmmm no problems yet but maybe i should loosen them and re-tigthen them? Any idea what the reasoning is for this?
-
However i tightened them to the correct torque setting while the truck was on jackstands not with its full weight on the ground as you mentioned above...hmmm no problems yet but maybe i should loosen them and re-tigthen them? Any idea what the reasoning is for this?
Most rubber suspension bushes used in this type of suspension are bonded to inner & outer sleeves - the outer sleeve is a press fit in the arm or link and the inner sleeve is a sliding fit on the bolt (or pin) but will have serrated (shallow teeth) edges so tha twhen they are tightened in place, the inner sleeve is not free to pivot.
When the weight of the vehicle is off the wheels the suspension will be at full droop, so if you tighten the bolts at this point, the rubber will be twisted when the vehicles is lowered rather than at a rest position - and you twist further as the arm or link pivots upwards to follow a bump.
Theoretically you could shorten the life of the bushing by tightening at full droop and I believe it's worth the extra effort to loosen & retighten - even though it may mean (as in my case) having to take the vehicle off the jackstands and then drive it onto ramps so that there is space to swing a wrench with the weight of the vehicle on the wheels.
-
Agreed! It is the bushing/s that should be flexing and absorbing the impacts. The bolts are simply there to hold them in place so they can do their job. Same with the sway bar bushings.
-
I've put about 400 miles on the Lock Right now and it is still a pleasant driver. I had the thought a manual transmission may well be more forgiving when driving on hard ball than an auto tranny might be simply because I can push in the clutch on most turns and take the torque completely off the Lock Right allowing it to ratchet freely during turns. I'm sure the longer wheel base helps with the manners as well.
-
As far the front goes - I was looking at a build thread on an Australian forum yesterday and noticed that they have the same plastic sleeves and they reused them with the OME struts - still given the uncertainty, the low price of the boots and the fact that finding a suitable boot here would likely be challenging - the easiest way is to get a pair from Low Range Off Road along with the struts - I can ask Sean to confirm that they fit.
I can confirm that the stock plastic strut cover WILL fit over the OME struts - mine slipped off my old ones and onto the OME struts without a hitch.
-
That's good to know. If I hadn't trashed one of mine a few years ago I'd still be using them.
-
Very nice right up and nice work!! For the record, my spacers are made from cast polyurethane resin. It is not your normal suspension bushing urethane. It is designed for be wear resistant and not just a "bushing". It is extremely tough and EXPENSIVE!! I am glad they have held up for you.
-
Thanks, Jeff.
I finally replaced the stock hub bolts with studs and stainless nylock nuts. These are "more better'.
-
Slightly off subject, but I did mention him earlier in this post, I got a pic of Norm Day, his station, and his killer little '55 Chevy that he has owned since the late '50s. He bought this car with like 14K miles on it and has owned, modified and raced it into the late '60s before he switched to fuelers and then moved on to funny car racing working with Don Garlett, Tommy Ivo and others. There is literally NO other '55 in the world built like this little jewel nor certainly with the history this car has.
-
That hood scoop is truly a work of art.
-
Norm designed that air scoop and air filter housing to take air in... and the excess exits through the back of that scoop. This guy was ahead of his time and WAY ahead of most performance manufacturers of the time as well.
-
Well I've logged right at 2500 miles on Buster with the Lock Right installed in the rear... and I am still very satisfied with the way he handles and drives. We received our first snow two nights ago (2") and I drove about 40 miles of hard ball in it. It was a wet, heavy slushy snow but I experienced no unexpected handling. In fact in a couple of turns I nailed it a little to try to get it side ways... but it continued to track along my turn. Not the 10" of snow and ice I will soon encounter, but it gave me a flavor of what to expect. The torquing during shifting still requires my attention. It definitely tugs when the rear end begins pulling both tires.
-
I finally got around to taking Buster to a Meineke to have the alignment (camber) checked after installing the OME suspension (struts). They had an alignment special on for $29.95 so I decided to take advantage of it. I had delayed having the alignment checked for well over 3K simply because after I allowed the suspension to settle after the spring and strut installation... it appeared to be sitting pretty damned close. Yeah, I know you can't "eye-ball" camber adjustment... but I did know it was damn close. The BFGs I had on the front had miles on them and the right front had been eaten up from my right front strut blowing while I was in Ohio and then logging several hundred miles on it before I got home so I wasn't too worried about trashing the tires. I kept periodically observing the wear on the tread after installing the OME suspension after a few hours of driving and they appeared to be wearing well.
Long story short, there was a discussion here on the forum regarding OME struts and I had recalled reading (somewhere) that OME factored in the additional 1.5" of travel on the struts in their design. Once on the alignment equipment at Meinekes, my driver side was 1.1 and the passenger side was 1.0, which simply means my driver side was just slightly out of 'green' so I didn't worry about it. They did adjust my toe-in which was off a little. OME struts and their suspension: I give them two thumbs up.
Oh yeah, and I wanted to mention that after I swapped my 4.62 gears for the 4.88 gear set recently I cruised down to Nashville, TN (340 miles each way) driving I-65 at about 70MPH on the way down and found I obtained 24MPG going down with about 400 pounds of gear in the back and my wife on board. Coming back I drove 80+MPH (a lot) and my milage went down to 20+MPG. The large difference in my MPG I attribute to either the additional 10+MPH average I cruised coming home OR... that gravity was working with me driving south and against me driving back up north. I'm still a bit confused on this point. At any rate, the swap up to the 4.88 gear set was well worth it for the added mechanical advantage obtained to pull the slightly taller and heavier tires.
-
At least you're making progress - my OME shocks & struts are finally there (at home) only problem is I'm not - the box with the struts showed up about 12 hours prior to my checking in for a flight to Miami - so they still haven't been fitted.
I'm hoping to pick up front springs from a V6 Vitara to use on the front end, to counteract the added weight of a bumper I'm working on - it will be designed to take a winch, but the winch won't be fitted immediately.
-
As OME struts are longer than stock, are you going to use spacers with those springs? If not, I'd expect your ride height would no be matched to the struts.
-
You just had to go put doubts in my mind, didn't you Ian ;)
I discussed it with ARB/OME before the purchase and was told the struts & shocks can be used with the factory springs, I'm going to be very unhappy if I find that I was misinformed - and several hundred dollars out of pocket, which will also make SWMBO unhappy, and you know - when momma's not happy, no one is happy.
-
Fordem, Another thought/course of action - ARB does offer their heavier front springs, which I believe are just a little longer, for the front end for those guys and gals who do intend to run heavier bumpers, winches and other goodies on their truck. OR you could just shim the standard weight OME springs a half an inch or so IF you mount your bumper before your spring install or soon there after.
-
I discussed it with ARB/OME before the purchase and was told the struts & shocks can be used with the factory springs, I'm going to be very unhappy if I find that I was misinformed - and several hundred dollars out of pocket, which will also make SWMBO unhappy, and you know - when momma's not happy, no one is happy.
Well, if they say that, I suppose the OME struts are matched to both stock length and the longer OME springs (i.e. the minimum length matches the compressed stock spring and the longer spring, and the full extension matches the longer one), and you just won't be using the extra articulation. If that's the case, sorry I created doubt, but it is a very clever piece of spring design which I didn't know about.
-
nprecon - I know about the OME springs, and was originally considering using them - it's just that the 30mm lift that they give would be very inconvenient at this time - that kind of led me to looking for front springs that could support more weight, and I discovered that the V6 engined GV weighs about 200lbs more than the 2.0 version (which is what I have) and since the differences are engine & transmission, the bulk of that extra weight is going to be upfront.
It's a theory at this point, but one I will look a little more closely at during the coming year.
Ian - I don't have my notes with me, but from memory, the additional length of the springs is minimal - the OME shocks/struts were selected after I was leafing through their catalogue and noticed that they claimed that in most cases the shocks & struts were compatible with both the OE springs and their own springs - I then contacted them and specifically asked about using the shocks & struts with the GV's OE springs as well as switching to the OME springs at a later date, and the reply was that it could be done, but if the OE springs were sagging I should not wait too long to install their springs.
It's a case where I need to change the shocks but don't want to change the springs just yet, and don't feel like spending money on shocks twice.
-
Gotcha!
-
As OME struts are longer than stock, are you going to use spacers with those springs? If not, I'd expect your ride height would no be matched to the struts.
I put the Old Man Emu struts in today - the OEM struts P/n #41601-65D10 & 41602-65D10 (they are made by KYB just in case anyone is curious) have a compressed length of 325mm and an extended length of 480mm - the OME N103S struts have a compressed length of 340mm and an extended length of 515mm.
In theory I lost 15mm of compression and picked up 35mm of droop - I don't think I need to worry about the struts bottoming with the original springs.
The rear shocks were done one afternoon during the week when the workload was "light" - I have the compressed & extended measurements for those in a notebook that has gone walkabout (hopefully temporarily), as soon as I find it I'll post those details - the rear shocks that came out were not OEM but Monroe Adventure Series D7644, supposedly a premium 4x4 shock - compared to the OME, they look puny.
I did go for a quick test drive, nothing off road, but I did pick one of the worst roads in the city - the improvement is noticeable, but I don't think it's anything more than can/should be expected when replacing dead or dying shocks with new ones, I'll provide more feedback as time passes.
Edit
I found my notes - the OME rear shocks have an extended length of 500mm & compressed length of 335mm - the Monroes that were removed are 460mm extended & 335 compressed so that's 35mm longer, enough to make a difference if the rear is loaded.
The ride is much nicer with signficantly less body roll in turns - almost sports car like.
-
A big thanks to nprecon for posting his efforts and solution on the Suzuki front air activated differential.
I found your comments at a different site and followed the link to this site.
Nice site :up:
Come good weather, I'll be using your suggestions .
Thanks again
Jack.
-
You are welcome, Jack, and welcome to the Zukiworld forum. The diff modification I did on my truck wasn't my original thought. I got the idea from another forum member here on Zukiworld who had done the same modification to his truck's front diff much earlier. Then I found the thread on Zuwharrie where owners were resorting to buying replacement air pumps and air actuators when theirs had gone bad... leaving them in the same position for an "air" failure in the future with significantly higher repair costs (with the new parts and specialized labor). The spot weld fix is simply a less expensive and more reliable option, IMHO.