ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Performance / Modify => Topic started by: entities on November 29, 2011, 10:18:24 AM
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Hey all, suspension question for you, did some flex testing on the Sidekick last weekend and the shocks on there suck, really bad... They are almost maxed out sitting flat, they have less than 1" of downtravel! But 8" of uptravel... I have a Calmini 3" lift, but I broke my Calmini rear shocks so I put on some old DT3000s I had laying around the garage.
Reading this doc: http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=56:shock&catid=36:techinfo&Itemid=60 (http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=56:shock&catid=36:techinfo&Itemid=60) It mentions for rock crawling type of wheeling having only around ~3" of uptravel is plenty, and downtravel is much more valuable.
Current:
Shock mount to mount sitting flat - 22"
Shock mount to mount full compress - 14"
Shock mount to mount full extended - 26.5" (this is where the spring is just becoming unseated from the top spring mount) I was thinking if I secure the lower spring mount with a strap or safety wire I could potentially go a few more inches because the bump stop on the top mount keeps the spring from falling out up top. What do you think?
There are two shocks I'm looking at, below are the extended/compressed sizes:
Current: 22.5" / 13.5"
DT8350: 26.5" / 15.5"
DT8386: 29.5" / 17"
The middle one above would give me a healthy increase of downtravel while just maxing out the spring and maintain alot of my uptravel. While the bottom one above would limit my uptravel to 5" but would give me killer downtravel.
Any input?
Thanks,
-Chad
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I agree that the uptravel is usually not as desirable for crawling. And your axle will still pivot around a bottomed out shock. I think I would go with the final option of a longer shock....if that is the only option. You could also move your lower shock mount if your handy to help tweak the numbers. I purchased some mounts from one of the vendors, and modified it to fit near the original location.
Also I strongly encourage some type of spring retainer. I tried to go with out them and lost a spring a couple times....So I just welded some "tabs" that hold my springs to the rear axle...I used some scrap 1"x3" metal cut 1" wide and then cut this into two sections to form two "J" hooks. I put two per spring, 180 deg apart. A quick and dirty diagram shown below. Sorry if this is confusing, there is probably a better solution.
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I don't really have any good pics of this cheap fix, but you can slightly see one in the picture below (driver side). When I flex it out the spring does drop off the "pad" as seen on the passenger side, but never gets below the passenger side. bumpstop.
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff317/heiney5/Ditch%20Witch/318663_10150909918080714_561985713_21736576_399049472_n.jpg)
Ultimately you do not want your shocks being the limiting strap or a bumpstop, because it shortens there life span. I've also debated getting longer springs, but I can't seem to justify it. Others are welcome to chime in.
<edited wording with the strikethrough>
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Thanks for the feedback.
Another question about limiting the uptravel, will this cause the vehicle to tilt side to side more when going over obstacles because the wheel can't travel up as far and must then tilt the vehicle to continue going over?
For a spring retainer I was planning on drilling a couple holes in the bottom spring cup and running safety wire, but could switch to the "tabs" if those don't do the trick.
And I don't see many people if any Suzuki guys running limit straps, from what I've seen the limit straps cost almost as much as some cheap DT8000 shocks. The DT8000s have built in bumpstops for the uptravel which I like.
-Chad
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I made some limit straps for my rig with some steel cable and cable clamps.
Solved the "oh crap my spring fell out" moments ;)
As for shocks, I just measured the lengths, went to a NAPA and searched their book to find something close to the correct lengths and correct ends. I think they ran about $20 each (and might have been for a mercury?)
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Limiting up travel will affect your crawling a little bit, but not to badly. But up-travel is essential if you want to go really fast out in the desert. :D
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(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1549/monroeshockschart12.jpg)
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1549/monroeshockschart12.jpg (http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1549/monroeshockschart12.jpg)
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Limiting up travel will affect your crawling a little bit, but not to badly. But up-travel is essential if you want to go really fast out in the desert. :D
We'll see, I'll post up pictures, but I bought the DT8386: 29.5" / 17" shocks, hopefully I'll get them on some time next week.
Fast in the desert? I drive a 20 year old 80-hp Suzuki Sidekick with 31" tires, fast is not an adjective anyone would use to describe my truck... Fast trail riding is what the Kawasaki two-stroke is for!
-Chad
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Chad,
What tires are you running and how much lift for the 31's? Thanks,
Kj
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Monroe/NAPA 37199, 24.5" extended and 14.5" compressed, they originate from a RAV4.
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Limiting up travel will affect your crawling a little bit, but not to badly. But up-travel is essential if you want to go really fast out in the desert. :D
We'll see, I'll post up pictures, but I bought the DT8386: 29.5" / 17" shocks, hopefully I'll get them on some time next week.
Fast in the desert? I drive a 20 year old 80-hp Suzuki Sidekick with 31" tires, fast is not an adjective anyone would use to describe my truck... Fast trail riding is what the Kawasaki two-stroke is for!
-Chad
I don't see how you can run 17" compressed shocks, without bottoming out. That is 5" over stock, almost the whole stroke of stock shocks. A 3" lift is 3" more or less, not 3" minimum, which makes your shocks at least a minimum of 2" longer than stock.
I am in need of new shocks, so very interested in how this comes out. Keep up with the information, it's useful.
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Chad,
What tires are you running and how much lift for the 31's? Thanks,
Kj
31" retread tires from treadwright.com
I have a 3" Calmini lift and 2" bodylift. The 3" Calmini a-arms are modified for wider and further forward, this helps clearance when turning up front.
-Chad
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Monroe/NAPA 37199, 24.5" extended and 14.5" compressed, they originate from a RAV4.
I want more than 24.5" extended, my spring just starts to get unseated at 26.5" and I'm planning to rig up a way to retain the spring in the lower spring mount to extend even further than 26.5"
-Chad
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Limiting up travel will affect your crawling a little bit, but not to badly. But up-travel is essential if you want to go really fast out in the desert. :D
We'll see, I'll post up pictures, but I bought the DT8386: 29.5" / 17" shocks, hopefully I'll get them on some time next week.
Fast in the desert? I drive a 20 year old 80-hp Suzuki Sidekick with 31" tires, fast is not an adjective anyone would use to describe my truck... Fast trail riding is what the Kawasaki two-stroke is for!
-Chad
I don't see how you can run 17" compressed shocks, without bottoming out. That is 5" over stock, almost the whole stroke of stock shocks. A 3" lift is 3" more or less, not 3" minimum, which makes your shocks at least a minimum of 2" longer than stock.
I am in need of new shocks, so very interested in how this comes out. Keep up with the information, it's useful.
I'm basing a lot of my decision to try these shocks off of this article on Trail Tough's website: http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=56:shock&catid=36:techinfo&Itemid=60 (http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=56:shock&catid=36:techinfo&Itemid=60)
The shock will likely bottom out against the bumpstops, but that will just tilt the vehicle slightly and push the other side of the axle downwards to gain more traction. When talking to Brent |removethispart|@ TT, based on my static shock mount to shock mount length this is the shock he recommended.
I just got the new shocks in today and they are huge! I'll try to put them on later this week if time allows, will take plenty of pics and post them up on here.
-Chad
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Got the new shocks, didn't get to mess around with them too much yet, still need to rig up a lower spring retainer and possibly some limit straps. But of course the real test will be how well it wheels!
-Chad
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Wow! Those are long, are you pleased with your choice of shock?
Thanks for the info on lift and tire size. I'm dropping a-arm mounts and moving
Them forward 1". Who did you get your shocks from, I might try them!
Thanks,
Kevin
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heyguys didnt want to thread jack or start a new thread really. so i figured since the topic is here... I have a 98 sidekick sport and my rear lower shock mounts are different then starndard trackkicks. they mount with the bolt for the lower mount running horizontal... parallel with the rear axel. Im just confused if i go to a much wider tire will it ever have interference with this lower shock mount? sorry for the newb question in here but Im confused. In my eyes the wider the tire the less room between the tire wall and the shock mount would be created?
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Wow! Those are long, are you pleased with your choice of shock?
Thanks for the info on lift and tire size. I'm dropping a-arm mounts and moving
Them forward 1". Who did you get your shocks from, I might try them!
Thanks,
Kevin
I got them from TrailTough. Not sure if I like them yet, haven't wheeled them yet... ;) Not sure if I'll know for a few months, all the rock trails here in CO are covered in snow, going to do some snow running this weekend but that doesn't flex the suspension much.
I do like how much downtravel I have, but it is at the expense of uptravel, if I find I don't like it I may raise the top shock mount to gain a bit of uptravel.
-Chad
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heyguys didnt want to thread jack or start a new thread really. so i figured since the topic is here... I have a 98 sidekick sport and my rear lower shock mounts are different then starndard trackkicks. they mount with the bolt for the lower mount running horizontal... parallel with the rear axel. Im just confused if i go to a much wider tire will it ever have interference with this lower shock mount? sorry for the newb question in here but Im confused. In my eyes the wider the tire the less room between the tire wall and the shock mount would be created?
Mark, this will also depend on your choice of rim, different backspacing and such.
-Chad