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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Beginner / Repair => Topic started by: salida-sidekick on December 06, 2011, 03:44:20 PM
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I love sidekicks and have wanted to own one for years. When I finally found one I could afford I jumped on it. It is a 1992 sidekick 8v, 2 door, 5 spd, 4x4. I got it for $560. Unfortunately , my sidekick has a lot of problems. The biggest is that it idles really rough. I am going to put a link to a youtube video of the idle so you can see how bad it is. The roughness does go away one you give it a little bit of gas, but it does not run great on the road either. So far I have changed the plugs, wires, cap& rotor, fuel filter, new battery, and have put fuel injection cleaner in it. None of these have made one bit of difference. The check engine light is not on.
So some of the know problems are, it does not have a catalytic converter (it has a glass pack and there is a leak in the pipe),
it leaks oil, it smells like it is burning rich in gas, and it does not like to start in the cold.
I have done all the work on the car myself, but I am a novice and do not understand how to do a lot of testing I.E. compression tests, fuel pump test, and stuff of that nature.
As I said before I really love this car, and I see why you all are so passionate about these things. I want this this thing to be a daily driver that occasionally goes offroading, but I do not have a enough money to take it to a mechanic. if anyone here could give me some advice, I would be most appreciative.
Here is the link to the video
1992 suzuki sidekick rough idle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMbzonSkc5A#)
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How many miles has your kick ?
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156,000
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Have you checked the timing? You need a timing light to do it. It is easy to check, once you hook up the timing light.
Have you checked to make sure the timing belt isn't off a tooth (or the distributor)? Or if the distributor is off 180 degrees (although, if it was, it probably wouldn't run down the road at all, since it would only be running on basically 2 cylinders).
A bad ECM could also cause this issue.
Are you sure the plug wires are routed to the correct cylinders?
Have you adjusted/checked the valves? You just need a set of feeler gauges and a screwdriver and a couple of wrenchs to check/adjust the valves.
Have you checked the cylinder compression? You need a compression gauge and hose (you can buy these from most any auto parts store. It is easy to check the compression, once you hook the gauge up.
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So no I have not checked the timing, I have no idea of how to check and adjust valves, and the same goes with checking compression. If I bought a chiltons manual, would it have instructions on how to perform these tasks? Or is there anything else out there besides chiltons? As far as the wires or distributor cap being in the wrong configuration, I don't think that is the case. It can get up to 60mph on the highway and it does not backfire. But I would not say that it runs good on the road by any means.
Also how would I check to see if the ECM is bad?
Thank you very much for the reply!
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So no I have not checked the timing, I have no idea of how to check and adjust valves, and the same goes with checking compression. If I bought a chiltons manual, would it have instructions on how to perform these tasks? Or is there anything else out there besides chiltons? As far as the wires or distributor cap being in the wrong configuration, I don't think that is the case. It can get up to 60mph on the highway and it does not backfire. But I would not say that it runs good on the road by any means.
Also how would I check to see if the ECM is bad?
Thank you very much for the reply!
Chiltons is better than a Haynes manual, but neither are as good as an FSM (factory service manual).
I would suggest either getting a manual, or searching online, to see how to do the various checks and adjustments. Otherwise, you will be paying someone else to do them for you...which can add up $$$ quickly. None of the things I suggested are hard to do, once you have a good reference manual and the proper tools.
The plug wires being routed to the wrong cylinders is likely not the issue. But it is something that is quick and easy to check, just to confirm.
The best way to check for a bad ECM is to swap a known good one in its place. But most people don't have access to a spare one, so you are either going to have to go through the test procedure (that is covered in an FSM) or you are going to have to eliminate all other possibilities that may be causing the problem, which leaves the ECM as the only likely component that is causing the issue.
But the first steps, if I were you, would be to verify the plug wire positions, verify the timing belt and/or distributor is not off a tooth or more, check the timing and adjust the valves and do a compression check. That should help a lot on narrowing down, or maybe even telling you, where the issue lies.
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Thank you so much I will let you know how it turns out
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I found a 1992 2 door suzuki service manual online so I got that coming to me. I don't have a timing light yet, but I did loosen the bolt on the distributor and played around with the distributor position(I did make a mark beforehand to put it back in the original place). No matter where I moved the distributor, the idle never seemed to simmer down from its shaking.
I watched a video on how to do compression tests today and plan on obtaining a kit in the next few days to do a test. What kind of numbers should I be looking for in the test?
Do you think it is bad to be driving it like it is?
Thanks again
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The compression should be at least 150psi in each cylinder. 150 is below the "service limit", but I have had engines that have had right at 150psi in all cylinders and they ran fine.
Factory spec is 199psi. The more important thing to look at is to make sure there is no variation of more than 15psi between the lowest and highest cylinder.
Testing the compression is very easy. Simply remove all the spark plugs, disconnect the wiring harness connector from the coil, unplug the fuel pump relay, screw the compression tester into the #1 cylinders spark plug hole, push the gas pedal to the floor and hold it there and crank the engine over for about 6-8 seconds and then jump out and look to see what the compression gauge reads. Then bleed off the pressure from the compression gauge (it should have a pressure relief valve/button on it), and repeat the procedure for the other 3 cylinders.
Depending on what is actually wrong with the engine, it may not be good on the engine to drive it with it in its current condition. I would hold off driving it, if you have something else to drive.
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I'd try Seafoam, Its $9 for a can. I do seafoam on every vehicle I buy. One of the three ways to use Seafoam is to suck it in through a vacumm line into the intake manifold. I think this has the most effect on the improvement. The second method of pouring it it the gas tank helps some too. And then the last 1/3 of the can is supposed to go in the oil before an oil change. I'm not sure how that would improve your situation. The first time I used it I was VERY wary of its impact. I bought a miata with over 200,000 miles. It failed and I really didn't have mush to loose. It made a big impact on starting, smooth running and passed smog test. Improved gas milage so I know it actually did something. I wouldn't expect the same improvement from a well cared for vehicle. And .. It's $9.
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Ok here is my latest update. First of all the car has worn out motor mounts which is the main reason the engine rocks so bad. Second I did a compression test today and the results were pretty bad. I had 40,35,7,35 psi reading in the cylinders. So I am now facing a replacement or rebuild. I have read posts of people who are in favor of swapping another engine in instead of rebuilding. Does anyone have any thoughts on this and can anyone give me an estimate of what a shop would charge for labor if I were to bring in the parts for a rebuild? I know there can be a huge range as it is impossible to know what everything looks like inside, but if anyone could give me a ballpark estimate so I can make plans on what to do, I would appreciate it. Also, anyone know of a good zuki mechanic in colorado? Thanks
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My vote is with a good used motor..... rebuilds can get
spendy, fast.
Good used engines (often loaded) can be had for cheap.
You can get an nice JDM G16A with less than 50K on it
for $700 to $800.
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I am also new to suzuki, and seriously mechanically challenged, but I have found an excellent local mechanic ( evergreen) who while not a Suzuki specialist, knows them and in my experience is very conscientious. He just completed all my 60,000 service, timing belt, ignition, water pump dist seals... So impressed, I would not hesitate to have him do an engine swap, knock on wood, if I ever need. PM me if you are interested and I'll give you his info.
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Best to start your own new thread Jebers. For a second
I thought the person with the low compression just had
an "excellent" mechanic do a 60K on it. That would have
put a cloud on the "excellent" title.
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Ok here is my latest update. First of all the car has worn out motor mounts which is the main reason the engine rocks so bad. Second I did a compression test today and the results were pretty bad. I had 40,35,7,35 psi reading in the cylinders. So I am now facing a replacement or rebuild. I have read posts of people who are in favor of swapping another engine in instead of rebuilding. Does anyone have any thoughts on this and can anyone give me an estimate of what a shop would charge for labor if I were to bring in the parts for a rebuild? I know there can be a huge range as it is impossible to know what everything looks like inside, but if anyone could give me a ballpark estimate so I can make plans on what to do, I would appreciate it. Also, anyone know of a good zuki mechanic in colorado? Thanks
Did you use a hand held compression tester or a screw-in? When compression testing, did you have the throttle body plate wide open (WOT) and all plugs out as Skyhiranger suggested? When trying to start it, do you have a check engine light during cranking (verifying the light works)? And again, as Skyhiranger said, ECM and timing need to be verified as good/correct. Also the exhaust system is suspect, if leaking, and not enough back pressure for the O2 sensor (sensor could be bad also).
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Thanks for the reply.
So I used a screw in type compression tester, and yes did have all of the plugs out. But I did not have the throttle body plate wide open. Would that make that big of a difference?
The check engine light does not come on while cranking, but I do not know how to check to see if it is burned out or not.
The exhaust does have a leak and as I said before there is not catalytic converter, just exhaust manifold to a glass pack. Could this cause a problem.
I have called around to different shops in my area and they all want to charge well over $2000 to rebuild my engine. Most of them want to charge over $700 just for the parts. I have seen a rebuild parts kit on Ebay for $230. Does anyone know if these are quality parts or not? Here is the link
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-Sidekick-Geo-Tracker-1-6L-8V-Overhaul-Engine-Kit-/300496978370?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ASidekick&vxp=mtr&hash=item45f70401c2 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-Sidekick-Geo-Tracker-1-6L-8V-Overhaul-Engine-Kit-/300496978370?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ASidekick&vxp=mtr&hash=item45f70401c2)
My last question is, my zuki runs plenty good enough to get around town. If I were to change out the motor mounts, would driving it in its current condition do further damage to the engine? I am talking about just easy driving below 4o mph.
Thanks for any input you have.
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A $230 rebuild kit is suspect to me. The quality master/major kits
I've seen are mid $300's to $450.