ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Performance / Modify => Topic started by: bentparts on February 05, 2012, 06:21:27 AM
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I know the hot set up for going SAS in a Trackick is Toy axles, but I'm heavily invested in ARB lockers and don't want to give them up. I'm thinking of doing something like the Calmini axle swap putting a Sammy front axle with coil front suspension in my Tracker to finally once and for all deal with the IFS and get rid of it.
Before I even contemplate going this route I want to know if my current front diff will fit in a Sammy front axle housing. I want to keep my gearing and ARB. If so I'll build a Sammy axle with all the good stuff, Cromo axles and such, transfer my 4 door discs and brakes to it too. But that's ONLY if the front chunks are interchangeable.
I'm also not buying a kit, going to fab everything myself. I have access to a Plasma cutting table with CAD so won't have to be cutting brackets and tabs by hand anymore. There is also lots available off the shelf too.
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Yes. Actually, trackick front diffs fit both front and rear samurai axle housings.
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Thanks Sky, that is going to make this decision a whole lot easier. 8) Now to find a complete sammy front axle.
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If you are running 5.13 gears there may be a clearance problem. When I built my steel front diff housing out of a Sammy rear housing I had to massage the back side of the housing to allow the gears to turn freely. I figured that the housing had some rock rash, but my nephew said he had same problem when putting 5.13's in his Sammy, so I think the 5.13's are just that much larger and you can get rubbing. You can clearly see the depression that I am referring to, and it does straighten out with some large hammer massage from the inside. So with it dangling down under your rig, I would recommend a diff protector.
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If you are running 5.13 gears there may be a clearance problem. When I built my steel front diff housing out of a Sammy rear housing I had to massage the back side of the housing to allow the gears to turn freely. I figured that the housing had some rock rash, but my nephew said he had same problem when putting 5.13's in his Sammy, so I think the 5.13's are just that much larger and you can get rubbing. You can clearly see the depression that I am referring to, and it does straighten out with some large hammer massage from the inside. So with it dangling down under your rig, I would recommend a diff protector.
I have heard of a few people having that problem with 5.12s. Although, far more people don't have the rubbing issue. I had no issue when I put 5.12s in my samurai axles.
But like you say, a few taps of a hammer, and all is well.
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ya i had to hammer out a little to get my 5.12 in. but all good now! ya hoooo
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Thanks BRD HNTR and moonzuk, yes I am running 5.125's, but doing a bit of hammer work is right up my alley. Diff protection a must. I actually think I'll probably have less front end clearance with a sammy axle in front considering how far up the IFS diff sits, but it'll make everything else so much simpler. Gonna start looking for a Sammy front axle locally or near locally anyway. It's a long term project so I can start gathering stuff I'll need and just keep running the IFS until I have everything.
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Your rig seems perform very good now. The SAS seems to be easier than trying to keep the IFS as a meat eater. I am still trying to stay IFS, and would like to see your ride in action.
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Actually BRD HNTR it does perform pretty darn good, has great clearance and rides nice too. The only reason I get frustrated with it is when I have to do some front end maintenance, like I did last weekend, and then have to re align everything. I had a coil that didn't seat correctly on the drivers side, had to drop everything to re seat it, then spent several hours getting the alignment straight again. ( I'm kinda picky about that. ) I used to take it to an alignment shop, but it's 30 miles away, have to make an appointment, blah blah blah. So after watching them do it a few times I made up some tools for measuring camber and toe and do it myself now. Once I get it straight it's fine, but still, SAS seems a lot easier. I'm just weighing the possibilities really. Now that it's straight and steering right I'll probably get lazy and just enjoy it again! :laugh: Nice to know I can go the SAS route and keep all my hardware ( ARB, brakes and diffs) though.
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And you can get cromoly axles.
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Yeah, that too. ;D Thing is, I get so much enjoyment going over and through obsticles with the IFS that all the big Jeeps and other " serious " off roaders do, it would be a shame to give up the satisfaction of showing them up! :laugh:
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I know the feeling. I have put in a lot of work to keep the IFS, and may have to lower diff again for clearance with the oil pan. Every modification leads to two more.
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I've already got my front diff sitting so low it just barely clears the front skid plate, maybe 1/4" clearance. If I try and drop it any lower I'll have to lower the skid plate and cross member too. Yeah, one thing sure does lead to another. I think I'm about at the limit as far as lift goes in the front. The Tracker is already top heavy, any more lift and it'll fall over :laugh:
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Just like I said, "Every modification leads to two more". When I drop the diff mounts I will have to modify the skid pan too. Just a couple more mods.
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Say it ain't so bentparts.....Another one going to defer to the SAS side. :(
I never thought about it, but I do imagine keeping an IFS rode worthy after hard wheeling would probably be another task in itself.
When I first threw gears in my sami project I just ran the front aluminum 3rd member from a tracker with 5:12s. I personally didn't have any problems with fitment. And although I have heard the aluminum is prone to break I had no problems with it after wheeling hard on it. I'm sure if it held up before for you it would hold up on a SAS....
The only drawback I see is you will probably exposing it to rocks from below since the 3rd member wont have the crossmember as a shield, like on IFS. So that would be my only concern with aluminum. I eventually did decide to lock the diff and then converted it to the Sami steel 3rd member.
Keep us posted on the build when it happens.
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Well Heiney, Hows that saying go, " if ya can't beat em , join em " Next I'll just sell all this crap and get a Jeep, NO WAY!
As far IFS goes, mines usually pretty stout, and can take quite a bit of pounding before anything really gets out of whack. It's when you DO have to take something apart that it becomes a pita. Just realigning the strut and getting the camber and toe back to correct makes any front end maintenance a real chore. I can take the whole front suspension apart and have nothing but the control arm dangling from its mounts in about 25/30 minutes. Reassembly in a bit less. Then, the fun begins. I don't care how carefully I mark everything, inevitably, it's out of alignment enough to drive funny. That's the only part that sucks for me.
If and when I actually begin doing something about it I'll start a thread. Still have to procure a Sammy front axle, and I'm already in the middle of an engine build. It can wait a while.
One thing I've been thinking about , especially after seeing that pic of Drones bent steering linkage: why hasn't anyone tried behind the axle steering on one of these? Then all you would have to protect are the housings. I've seen it done on Dana's and even did it to my RC crawler. Must be a way to do it to a sammy axle. I don't think I'd ever be comfortable bashing through rocks and fallen timber with that steering linkage hanging out there in the breeze.
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Well Heiney, Hows that saying go, " if ya can't beat em , join em " Next I'll just sell all this crap and get a Jeep, NO WAY!
Uggg...dont make me nausias.... ;)
One thing I've been thinking about , especially after seeing that pic of Drones bent steering linkage: why hasn't anyone tried behind the axle steering on one of these? Then all you would have to protect are the housings. I've seen it done on Dana's and even did it to my RC crawler. Must be a way to do it to a sammy axle. I don't think I'd ever be comfortable bashing through rocks and fallen timber with that steering linkage hanging out there in the breeze.
I thought of that also when I rebuild a sami frt and changed one the Leaf setup to a S/R.....The idea was to run a setup like a FJ80 axle....It is possible, with some work. I was thinking to swap the knuckles left to right and then cut and rotate the balls to get camber right.
Probably the main drawback (besides the custom work) with a behind steering at least for samurai is the oil pan. Unless you move the axle extremely forward, the clearance just isnt practical. The steering has to go over the pinion, which is already close to the oil pan. Unless your running a fair bit of lift.....
This might not be the case on a tracker SAS...and you should be able to stretch it, which will gain you some wheel base, approach angle, and a more balanced weight distribution. But then you might have an issue with the steering box location.
I've seen your past posts/builds. You could do if you wanted. But then again how often to you bent the steering up? An over the top steering with crossover, or some fancy Mercedes arms might be more realistic and work 95% of the time.
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You could go with a full OTT steering setup, then just cut off the front steering. Easy as pie. But you have a good point about needing to slide the axle forward a ways to be able to clear the pan. You will also need a different steering box as your steering will be reversed.
And I've only bent that front tie rod twice, and I would rather hit it then smash my axle into something. More give. :D
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one typically does not run the axle; ie tie rod into objects whilst wheeling.
additionally, the aftermarket ott solutions are more substantial than a oe sammi tie rod, and would take more of a 'hit'....
But in practice, in a situation where that large boulder is in front f you, you are usually going to be crawling, thus negating any real impact speed anyways...fwiw
After you mock it up, you can decide whether to go thru the trouble, or design/build with the thought you can change later to reverse box behind axle if you really want to.
ps- found a front axle for $75, lmk if you want me to hunt it down.
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I don't see a behind the knuckle steering setup being practical at all....from a clearance standpoint. Like was said, unless the axle is moved forward a considerable amount, or you are running a lot of lift, you would have tie rod to oil pan clearance issues.
And also like was said, you would have to find a steering box that is reversed from the one you have now, otherwise when you turn the steering wheel right, the tires would turn left....that might be interesting.
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Thanks for all the advise and info guys. Now I know why it hasn't been done, TOO COMPLICATED :laugh: If I were to go ahead with this project, I'll probably go the over the top route since it's already been engineered and worked out. No sense trying to reinvent the wheel. Besides, moving the axle forward some can only help with it's wheeling ability and road handling.
John, if you can get that axle somehow and hold it till we hook up that would be great! I really don't plan on starting this anytime soon, getting to close to spring to be tearing the rig apart. Maybe next winter, but I can at least gather some parts.
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Guess who has 3 sets of complete front axles in his back yard??
I do!!! 8) Give me a call or if you lost my number its 856 340 9277
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Hey stranger! Just saw your reply, good to hear from ya. I'll give you a call Sat 18th. Mike