ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Beginner / Repair => Topic started by: rockybaroofy on February 08, 2012, 06:25:45 PM
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what's with the butter bolts they put in zuks? i've broken off a front housing bolt TAKING IT OUT ! and 4 out of the 6 hub bolots taking them out ! am i missing something ?
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yep. Liquid wrench, anti seize, and properly torqued bolts.
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Every kid I've ever started in the shop gets a brand new shiny 1/4" drive socket set. I figure that will teach them not to over torque. Call it the smaller hammer theory...
A little heat, some penetrate, and a short wrench...will keep your E Z outs in the drawer.....Boxcar
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It isnt just zuk's, I have a 05' Silverado and it is the greatest piece of shyt I have ever purchased, EVERY brake line and fuel line are made from untreated steel and have rusted thru, it has gone thru 7 brake jobs in 27K miles, and just the other day I pushed my finger thru the wall of the front driveshaft!!! And lets not talk about how many bolts simply had the heads rust clean off!
The 98' Sidekick I bought from deep in the north salt/rust belt was structurally in far better condition!!!!!!!!!!
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Chevys.....Gotta love em.... :P
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what's with the butter bolts they put in zuks? i've broken off a front housing bolt TAKING IT OUT ! and 4 out of the 6 hub bolots taking them out ! am i missing something ?
It must of been the front housing bolts on the passengers side hanger. I've twisted off a few of them. The good thing is, usually the bolts twist off with a little bit of the bolt sticking up above the housing. So you should be able to take a nut, place it over the bolt, take a welder, and fill the nut with weld (concentrating the weld on the end of the broken bolt). The combo of the heat from welding and the nut giving you something to put a wrench/socket on, usually makes it so the broken off bolt will come right out. Even if the bolt is slightly below the surface of the aluminum, the nut method will work, since the weld won't stick to the aluminum (although, it may mess up the outer threads a little and you may need to run a tap down the hole, to clean them up).
I've used the same weld-a-nut method on the hub bolts. But you have to be careful there, because the surrounding metal is steel and you can weld the bolt to the wheel hub. The trick is to use the right sized nut, or even one that is one size smaller than the bolt, so the weld won't "leak" out onto the surrounding metal.
Another trick with the hub bolts is to use wd40 (or similar) and spray the bolt and tapered washer down. Carefully try to break the bolt loose. Once broke loose, if the bolt starts to turn harder, screw it back in a little and try again (may have to do that several times, to "work" the bolt, before the rust and corrosion will get broken up enough for it to thread out without twisting off).
One more trick, is if the tapered washer is sticking in the hub and not coming out with the bolt (once you see a little big of gap between the washer and the bolt head). Take a flat screwdriver (or a chisel) and hammer and tap right between where the washer meets the hub. This will usually break the washer loose from the hub and allow you to remove the bolt without twisting it off.
I rarely use heat on bolts that are threaded into, or through, aluminum. Nothing wrong with using heat, I just generally choose not to and my other methods work just as good.
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Skyhi has a lot of good tips. I use all of those techniques myself all the time due to New Hampshire roads being white in the winter even when it's not snowing.
Another good trick in addition to the above is to shock the threads to break up corrosion. I usually do this by placing the socket with breaker bar or cheap beater ratchet on the fastener and tapping on it with a hammer as I tighten and loosen it. Another good way to shock the threads is to use a punch on the top and sides of the bolt head or nut. Heat is definitely your friend so long as you don't have anything nearby that will get destroyed by it. I can't tell you how many times a bolt has been impossible to remove until I hit it for a minute with some MAPP or propane and it starts to spin with half the effort.
Unfortunately some threads just get too contaminated with corrosion and no matter how long you lube, shock, heat, quench, torque and repeat there's no way it's spinning out. This is especially true whenever anything is threaded into aluminum. Gag.
I hear where you're coming from with the grade zero zuk hardware though. When I first got my tracker I had to remove the locking hubs as they were frozen in the lock position. I tried all of the above methods (minus the welded nut) for DAYS trying to gingerly remove the bolts and I still broke 2 or 3 PER SIDE. Luckily I was able to carefully drill out the remnants of the bolts and save the threads in the hubs. When I put my new locking hubs on I did what I do every time I want to fight stuck fasteners... I bought the highest grade hardware I could find, cleaned the existing threads with a tap, ANTI-SEIZE and correct torque for the size of the bolt. I also consider it "routine maintenance" to spray every visible bolt and fastener every chance I get. For instance whenever I spray lube my hinges and latches four times or so a year I also spray every visible bolt in the engine bay. Whenever I'm under the vehicle I spray my body mount studs, differential covers, shock mounting hardware etc. It may sound excessive and time consuming but it's sure better than having to disassemble half your vehicle because you broke a bolt in an impossible place to drill and tap. I stock up on penetrating oils whenever they go on sale.
You're not alone, don't let those soft bolts get you down!
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Those are all great maintenance tips and tricks, and pretty much cover it. I agree with the last two posters, once you get the offending bolts out, ANTI SEIZE and proper torque on everything. There isn't a nut, bolt or screw on my rig that hasn't been treated to a slathering of anti seize, especially anything threaded into aluminum. It makes all future work much easier.
It's worth investing in a metric tap and die set too, your going to need it.
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I try to never reuse bolts/nuts that have seen alot of corrosion, though there are times when a wire wheel on the bench grinder will clean them up nicely, I have also sand blasted nuts and bolts as well, but this will remove any manufacturers applied coating and require a spot of paint etc to protect from future corrosion.
ANTI-SIEZE should be purchased in the largest container you can, I prefer the copper based stuff from Permatex for anything that gets hot(exhaust side) and for chassis components, while I use the aluminum based antisieze for bolts going into aluminum parts because the copper could create it's own issues with dis-similar metal corrosion.
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I agree ANTI-SEIZE IS ONE OF YOUR BEST FRIENDS , I USE THE HECK OUT OF IT
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thanks guys , i did the old drill and tap trick , i had the front out anyway ! also got two bttles of anti-seeze ! lol thanks for reminding me about the weld the nut on trick , i was five feet away from my welder and didn't think of it! the spraying the bolts with lube doesn't sound too far fetched as i'm sure living in the north , youve found that even the glass rusts up here ! i can't help but wounder if there is something we could spray under our zuks that would last loger than lube !? got any ideas ?
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Well, it goes without saying but don't spray any kind of undercoating or paint on bolts that haven't been recently removed and slathered in anti-seize. It'll just give you something else to scrape off before applying penetrating lube when you do want to remove a bolt. I've been thinking for awhile that waxing the undercarriage after a high pressure wash at a coin op place would be a good barrier against moisture. Maybe some of that spray n wax stuff that you're supposed to spray on a wet car and wipe down would work for less money? Or you could use something like 3m rustfighter which is a creeping wax usually used inside rockers and frames. It's sprayed out of a "shutz" gun hooked to your air compressor. You could always go with the nasty old grease the hell out of the bottom of your truck method. However, I wouldn't because it attracts dirt like crazy, will make parts extremely irritating to prep for paint and it'll make any work in the areas that have been treated even more miserable to deal with. Grease monkey anyone?
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When i was in Naval Aviation we had a spray corrosion control called grade4. It sprayed on thin and quickly formed a thick waxy surface that reminds me of earwax. It was fresh and salt waterproof and could be removed easily with most solvents and a brush.
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awesome were do i get some talon ?
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I got something similar to grade 4, at a marine supply store. Use it on all my aluminum and stainless steel parts. You can also get similar stuff from aviation supply, but they're harder to find.
SquirrellyFella, I use to think I was pretty much alone in cleaning and treating the under carriage of my Tracker. Glad to know I'm not the only one ;D. My truck was already undercoated when I got it, and it's held up very well, no rust to speak of. I usually treat that material, which seems a bit rubbery, with the same stuff I use on my tire sidewalls ( both sides ) and vinyl and plastic interior and exterior trim. It's a water based protectant I got from a company called Adams Polishes. Works well on anything too. I've also used wax on ANYTHING painted to protect it, as long as it doesn't get hot. There's another high tech lube i use on lots of stuff : elbow grease. :laugh:
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I like CorrosionX for interior and paralketone for exterior/underside, I get it at aircraftspruce, http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/corrosionx.php (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/corrosionx.php)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/paralketone.php (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/paralketone.php)