ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Beginner / Repair => Topic started by: Zukipilot on February 11, 2012, 11:09:09 AM
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OK. So I get the Zuki back 'on the road' and in true Zig fashon, break the hell out of it before I ever hit pavement. I snapped the end off of the panhard??? bar... the bar that holds the front axle in place left to right centered.... In turn I snapped both shock shafts and bent the bar.....
So my question is, can the ends used on the kit be purchased at any ol parts store? If so do you know a part number? I'm heading back to the woods behind the house to retrieve the part and hopefully go get a replacement. If any of you have a part number, please let me know......
I'm just glad it happened on my property instead of miles away on a trail 8)
Zig
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You may have already guessed this .If you snapped your panhard. It"s in a bind. It was the cause of the shock failier....
Without pics of the ends I can't be ant help on locating new ones....Boxcar...
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Here is a pic of the damaged parts. I found out that they are probably FJ60 or FJ80 joints.... It should of never snapped where I had the truck. It must of been worn out and snapped. Just goes to show, you need to go over your vehicle frequently checking for worn parts when you do this stuff to your rig....
Carnage parts:
(http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/gallery/1/22_13_02_12_4_19_11_4.jpg)
Sadly, the obsticle where it broke :P (let the trash talk begin) >:D
(http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/gallery/1/22_13_02_12_4_19_09_0.jpg)
(http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/gallery/1/22_13_02_12_4_19_10_1.jpg)
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Nice kick. Let me ask you..Are your panhard rod an your drag link at exactly the same angle? Or are they at different angles?
My guess is that they aren't lined up . If so , that allone will cause a bind .
Or it could be that due to the use of a ball joint in a panhard rod. You have simply over extended the travel of the ball joint.
I'd convert the rod to heim joints with misalignment shims . And check your angles.
You can get the ends through any off road supplier.
Your right on the preflight checking issue. That's probably the one thing we are all guilty of neglecting.
Sorry for the bad luck.....Boxcar...
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Not sure about the new super joints, but heim joints are not legal in most states and on race tracks for steering linkage (like the rest of your rig is). But at least they will not just break and leave you stranded.
I suspect the problem is you do not have IFS anymore, I went up a similar hill and had no problems.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-9jc5AmFzaIE/Tzk9mJ4bjyI/AAAAAAAAES4/Qwa_vx0NV-g/s800/sttrkr%2520%25285%2529.JPG)
At least you don't have to worry about someone helping themselves to parts off it on your property.
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I suspect the problem is you do not have IFS anymore, I went up a similar hill and had no problems.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-9jc5AmFzaIE/Tzk9mJ4bjyI/AAAAAAAAES4/Qwa_vx0NV-g/s800/sttrkr%2520%25285%2529.JPG)
:laugh: I do miss the characteristics of the IFS, but there are many things I can do in this that would of been extremely difficult (but not impossible) in the IFS on 33's 8)
At least you don't have to worry about someone helping themselves to parts off it on your property.
No doubt... Just glad it was not on a trail hours form home....
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Why would you want your panhard bar on while wheeling? From what I have read the best case scenario is to remove them while wheeling to prevent damage to the bar, frame, axle. Because of the stress placed on the bar in the adverse conditions the weakest link will let go.
I was under the impression the bar was added to help eliminate the shake / shimmy down the road. Or to inhance the steering control.
Can you utilize pins with safety clips in the ends? This would allow you to remove it while off roading and easily replace it once ready to hit the road?
My plan is to build one using tractor link bars in this fashion with hiem ends just for that quick connect / diconnect reason. As far as the legality it should not be a problem since the panhard bar isn't actually a portion of the steering componets. It is more of a suspension inhancement tying the axle to the frame.
Tux...
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The panhard is not steering , but suspension. Heims are legal in all 50 and tracks on suspension.
Offroad (if set up correctly) They work great. The idea is to keep the axle centred under the frame.Set up is prety critical though, or they will bind..Boxcar...
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Why would you want your panhard bar on while wheeling? From what I have read the best case scenario is to remove them while wheeling to prevent damage to the bar, frame, axle. Because of the stress placed on the bar in the adverse conditions the weakest link will let go.
Remember he's on coils with a modded Trackick Trailslayer... I think the panhard is required as it's the 3rd link in the 3 link front.
IIRC TT changed the design of the panhard bar & or its mount sometime after initial design, because there were problems. I'd contact TT & see what they have to say... or geez ask Eric since he built it! :P
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I spoke with Brent and got the answer. It uses 78 Toyota FJ-80 rod ends. It is a non grease-able rod end and I bet it just wore out. The Trailslayer system is set up properly (everything lined up correctly). It was just a faulty rod end that had been abused over the past 10-15K miles I have put on it since it was built....
I also found out that Bilstein can/will rebuild the shocks for me. $35 for the standard rebuild and $20 for the main rod... Another good reason for spending the extra money on their product. For the cost of standard long travel shocks, I'm getting mine rebuilt good as new 8)
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Are all of the Suzuki IFS systems built with shocks in the panhard bars? I know that the Chevy Tahoe is more of the traditional adjustable panhard without a shock.
The straight axle versions I have looked at for Sammi's are either rigid or adjustable. All connect the axle to the steering side of the frame.
That is why I previously commented to make the bar removable.
Great thread i'm learning a few things here because it is driving me to research more! Thanks, Zukipilot!!!
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There are no panhard bars on a zuk IFS let alone with shocks on them, lost here.
Are you getting panhard and antisway bars confused?
The panhard CAN NOT be disconnected, it keeps the axle centered between the frame rails.
The sway bar connects left to right and keeps body roll under control in a turn.
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The PO has a converted Kick ( solid axle) That's why the panhard rod...
And yes you can run without it. Most solids do.....Boxcar...
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Zig's rig is the solid toy axled Trackick Trailslayer, which uses coils & a 3 link in front, 4 link in back.
http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=167&category_id=47&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53 (http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=167&category_id=47&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53)
While you can run leaf springs without a panhard, it wouldn't be possible with coils as the panhard is the only thing that keeps the axle centered. This is why when it broke, it bent his shocks because the axle went off center.
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Are all of the Suzuki IFS systems built with shocks in the panhard bars? I know that the Chevy Tahoe is more of the traditional adjustable panhard without a shock.
The straight axle versions I have looked at for Sammi's are either rigid or adjustable. All connect the axle to the steering side of the frame.
That is why I previously commented to make the bar removable.
Great thread i'm learning a few things here because it is driving me to research more! Thanks, Zukipilot!!!
The shocks were just a side damage to the bar end breaking, not part of the bar's function. When the rod end broke I was turning left climbing my wheel up onto a 3' dirt bank. The end snapped (nothing left to hold the axle centered) and the axle quickly shifted to the passenger side 6-8" until the tire rested against the wheel well. That quick shift put to much shear stress on the shock shafts (designed for tension and compression not shear load) and snapped them.
In the pic below the bar that broke on me is the second one up from the axle. You can see the mount to the axle on the passenger side and the other end mounts to the frame near the steering box.
HTH,
Zig
(http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/gallery/0/22_08_02_09_3_01_51_1.jpg)
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Zig's rig is the solid toy axled Trackick Trailslayer, which uses coils & a 3 link in front, 4 link in back.
[url]http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=167&category_id=47&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53[/url] ([url]http://www.trailtough.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=167&category_id=47&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53[/url])
While you can run leaf springs without a panhard, it wouldn't be possible with coils as the panhard is the only thing that keeps the axle centered. This is why when it broke, it bent his shocks because the axle went off center.
What he said ;D
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I got it now...
Originally I thought it was a conventional solid axle conversion. That is why I replied as I did about the removal of the panhard bar while off road. (such as this.... http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,61809.0.html (http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,61809.0.html))
At some point I saw the coils and thought well crap it is an IFS set up, thus I inquired about the panhard set up. Until yesterday I really hadn't ever looked at IFS in relationship to a panhard bar. It was some good information reading & You Tube video watching.
None the less I still maintain this thread has given me some additional insight into Panhard Bars which it is ALWAYS good to continue to learn...... ;)
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Don't feel bad tux. I missed the coils to...
I guess I should read slower......Boxcar...
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I was not sure what it was called until I broke it :P
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I love this kind of stuff.... it is Awesome to be able to learn more about systems I am not familiar with from like minded folks. I hate it when somebody flames me (or anyone else) because they make a mistake in what they have written or in the contex that the post or reply was given!
Forums are a great FREE resource of wisdom, knowledge, information for folks who choose to provide and help. I belong to several Suzuki and Corvette forums.
In saying that I want to say thanks to those who offer help! It makes owning, working, and buying stuff for folks like me easier.
I hope in return I can give some of that back as well.
Sorry for getting a lil off topic...
Just glad I learned a lil somethin and Zukipilot got the info he was lookin for!!! ;)
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Eloquently written Tux.....x10
Now that we are all on the same page.
I will stick by my advice to run Hymie joints with misalignment spacers. They will offer a much greater range of movement before getting bound.
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Da Kick is back on the road. After receiving the parts (two FJ 80 joints and some Monroe shocks to hold me over till the Bilstines get rebuilt) it took about an hour to get it mobile. Now for some new shoes for the front and I'm ready....
(http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/gallery/1/22_21_02_12_5_35_50_0.jpg)
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BTW, Eric, if you look at this thread, what do you see in the pic that you would be SO proud of :laugh:
Zig
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Not sure about Eric but my eyes spied a 80-82 white Shark with a nose muff on it.... See.... birds of feather flock together.... I have a Stingray in the shop along with a C5..... 8)
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Nice... I love the Vette. It's a lot of fun but I prefer the Lotus for back road carving. So after a bit of maintenance, I'm going to put her on the market.
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BTW, Eric, if you look at this thread, what do you see in the pic that you would be SO proud of :laugh:
Zig
he wouldnt be proud of you covering the Lotus with a scratchy old blue tarp!!!! :'( :'( :'(
SHAME ON YOU! >:D
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BTW, Eric, if you look at this thread, what do you see in the pic that you would be SO proud of :laugh:
Zig
he wouldnt be proud of you covering the Lotus with a scratchy old blue tarp!!!! :'( :'( :'(
SHAME ON YOU! >:D
I keep enough polish and wax on it that bird crap wont stick, a tarp is not gonna scratch it 8)
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I keep enough polish and wax on it that bird crap wont stick, a tarp is not gonna scratch it 8)
Hmmm, it's still a pretty big risk to take. I can fly down this weekend and pick it up. You know, to keep it safe. :D
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Thanks for the offer, but I think the blue tarp and 90# blue Pit can keep her safe 8)
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I don't think I know anybody with a Lotus... (somebody made some good life choices). ;D
Since, we are now off topic.... :laugh: can you tell me about your cowl induction panel on your hood?
I want to mold 1 into a Samurai hood I have in the shop. I am thinking something a lil wider than this one though. (I think)
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So are you saying I made good choices, or you did (since you dont know any one with a Lotus :laugh: )....
It is a Summit Racing mail order scoop. Just check out their web site and search for 'Hood Scoop' and you will find 17 pages of different sizes and styles.
Zig