ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Performance / Modify => Topic started by: zuki1018 on March 02, 2012, 02:11:18 PM
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Looking to get larger injectors. Not clear on what style the 1.6 16v trackers have. Denso? I want something in the 330cc to 360cc range... possibly off a different vehicle. TIA
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Look at Subaru injectors.
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Look at Subaru injectors.
Subaru on ebay
(http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/m/m0jVB0XyolTcs0JLx8VErrA/140.jpg)
(http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/m/mTdv-3IKpk7PGYVsB-Db1cw/140.jpg)
(http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/m/mr6-ulFJ6q0e6q493yYyqbw/140.jpg)
they dont look the same as whats online as a stock replacement for the trackers?
(http://images.apwcontent.com/is/image/Autos/sifj396_is?$APW_imgProd$)
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These appear the same... listed as a 360cc denso
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/360CC-INJECTORS-TURBO-CIVIC-B18-B16-INTEGRA-VTEC-H22-SI-/16/!C!4u,BgCWk~$(KGrHqZ,!h!EzeCWN18zBNE-gTvgjQ~~_12.JPG)
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Why so big? Are you running that lean? Can the MS be set up to alter the duration of the injector on time also?
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Why so big? Are you running that lean? Can the MS be set up to alter the duration of the injector on time also?
Based on the online injector calculators, 330cc should support the rough HP numbers Im looking ahead to. I have seen some forum posts that say the stock tracker has 175cc and others that say they are 250cc. Either way I am just planning for down the road.
MS lets you adjust just about everything! It calculates injector timing for you (Required Fuel Calc.) or you can adjust I suppose.
(http://www.driftwoodchimes.com/zuki1018/Pix/MSFuel_Screenshop.JPG)
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That MS is certainly tuneable, nice to be able to just plug in the laptop and dial it in I bet. Stock injectors are 175. With a 330 you should have all the room you need to find the sweet spot, you'll probably have to up the pressure in the rail though, ya think?
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That MS is certainly tuneable, nice to be able to just plug in the laptop and dial it in I bet. Stock injectors are 175. With a 330 you should have all the room you need to find the sweet spot, you'll probably have to up the pressure in the rail though, ya think?
Yeah its really great. My awesome (understanding & interested) better-half does the tuning while I am driving. The biggest problem is not having a way to suck the stock spark maps from the ECM. My curves are just a calculated guess.
The stock FPR must be on a 1:1 ratio. We slowly made our way up to 12psi the other night. I was still getting great air/fuel mixture. I suppose the injector duty cycles could have been above nominal range as well. We only did short bursts/runs over about an hour or so. When I look up the 175cc calculations it doesn't show it supports that much boost.
I am still hoping someone chimes in on what brand/model injectors they are ...or are compatible with. I am going to leave the turbo at the stock wastegate setting until i find injectors.
Right on about the need to restrict the oil to the turbo also :) ...I looked like mosquito control after boosting heh!
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The stock FPR must be on a 1:1 ratio. We slowly made our way up to 12psi the other night.
I am still hoping someone chimes in on what brand/model injectors they are ...or are compatible with. I am going to leave the turbo at the stock wastegate setting until i find injectors.
Stock FPR is 1:1
The injector number should be marked on it, from memory i think they are Nikki INP470.
I just pulled the binary from a 96 US AT today, I haven't looked for the tables yet, I suspect they are similar to the OBD1 models.
http://www.rhinopower.org/ECUs/71EC1/docs/EE93.bin (http://www.rhinopower.org/ECUs/71EC1/docs/EE93.bin)
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I don't remember the part numbers offhand, but I'm running 210 cc injectors out of a V6 Nissan Pathfinder. I also contacted an injector supplier from one of the ebay sellers and he was quite helpful in cross referencing the plug style and sizes ( ppm, etc) so the ones he sent me fit like stockm right down to the electrical connection.
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The stock FPR must be on a 1:1 ratio. We slowly made our way up to 12psi the other night.
I am still hoping someone chimes in on what brand/model injectors they are ...or are compatible with. I am going to leave the turbo at the stock wastegate setting until i find injectors.
Stock FPR is 1:1
The injector number should be marked on it, from memory i think they are Nikki INP470.
I just pulled the binary from a 96 US AT today, I haven't looked for the tables yet, I suspect they are similar to the OBD1 models.
[url]http://www.rhinopower.org/ECUs/71EC1/docs/EE93.bin[/url] ([url]http://www.rhinopower.org/ECUs/71EC1/docs/EE93.bin[/url])
Fantastic! Is that BIN file correct its only 64kb in size?
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64k is correct, 0000h to FFFFh.
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64k is correct, 0000h to FFFFh.
Man ...I may need to do some reading. I still haven't figured out how to write that BIN file to a virtual drive let alone figure out what 0000h to FFFFh means ha.
I suppose even if i get this file figured out, the factory ECU's do a lot of math from many sensors to calculate a spark curve. I would have to reverse engineer it to get it into a usable Megasquirt input (12x12 RPM and MAP based table).
(http://www.driftwoodchimes.com/zuki1018/Pix/MSSpark_Screenshop.JPG)
PS. this table is not accurate for the 16v... just an example of inputs
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I don't remember the part numbers offhand, but I'm running 210 cc injectors out of a V6 Nissan Pathfinder. I also contacted an injector supplier from one of the ebay sellers and he was quite helpful in cross referencing the plug style and sizes ( ppm, etc) so the ones he sent me fit like stockm right down to the electrical connection.
On your turbo setup? How much boost are you running with those injectors... and do you have an adjustable FPR?
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Man ...I may need to do some reading. I still haven't figured out how to write that BIN file to a virtual drive let alone figure out what 0000h to FFFFh means ha.
I suppose even if i get this file figured out, the factory ECU's do a lot of math from many sensors to calculate a spark curve. I would have to reverse engineer it to get it into a usable Megasquirt input (12x12 RPM and MAP based table).
I would expect the primary spark table to be 16x16 with a non-linear RPM axis, thats how the 8V ECUs of the same period are setup. There are fewer parameters for the spark than for the fuel but there are a lot of back-up/default values to keep things running in the event of a sensor failure. The 16V Track/Kick ECU is pretty sophisticated but not on a par with the Baleno/Esteem ECUs which use a 16-bit dual core processor.
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Man ...I may need to do some reading. I still haven't figured out how to write that BIN file to a virtual drive let alone figure out what 0000h to FFFFh means ha.
0000h to FFFFh is the address range in hexadecimal (0->63355). I did get as far as writing an IDAPro script for the H8/536 processor and running it through the disassembler:
http://www.rhinopower.org/ECUs/71EC1/docs/ee93.asm (http://www.rhinopower.org/ECUs/71EC1/docs/ee93.asm)
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I don't remember the part numbers offhand, but I'm running 210 cc injectors out of a V6 Nissan Pathfinder. I also contacted an injector supplier from one of the ebay sellers and he was quite helpful in cross referencing the plug style and sizes ( ppm, etc) so the ones he sent me fit like stock right down to the electrical connection.
On your turbo setup? How much boost are you running with those injectors... and do you have an adjustable FPR?
Only 8lbs, ( but that's easily adjustable) FPR adjustable and set up to 47lbs. The additional alcohol injection allows much more boost and stock timing without knock, ping or overheating. I think I could easily go to 10 lbs but I'm more concerned with the engine internals holding up. Fueling is no longer an issue since adding the H20/ ALC injection, in fact it runs better than it ever did, even after removing the intercooler heat exchanger, no longer even necessary. I'm going to convert the tank and pump from my air to liquid intercooler setup just to store an additional 2+ gals of my injection mix.
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Man ...I may need to do some reading. I still haven't figured out how to write that BIN file to a virtual drive let alone figure out what 0000h to FFFFh means ha.
I suppose even if i get this file figured out, the factory ECU's do a lot of math from many sensors to calculate a spark curve. I would have to reverse engineer it to get it into a usable Megasquirt input (12x12 RPM and MAP based table).
I would expect the primary spark table to be 16x16 with a non-linear RPM axis, thats how the 8V ECUs of the same period are setup. There are fewer parameters for the spark than for the fuel but there are a lot of back-up/default values to keep things running in the event of a sensor failure. The 16V Track/Kick ECU is pretty sophisticated but not on a par with the Baleno/Esteem ECUs which use a 16-bit dual core processor.
We ran a spark map yesterday that was linear. We did a max timing of about 30deg at 100kpa linear across the RPM range. Once it when above 100 (on boost) i backed off timing to about 22 at 150kpa (5-7psi). i think its a bit too soft but a good starting point to avoid detonation. Sure isn't a fool proof method of timing an engine from scratch. It would just be nice to have the spark curve close to factory in the correct RPM/power ranges... then all i need to worry with is retarding things above the 100kpa