ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: 1bigtracker on March 25, 2004, 06:45:19 AM
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i have heard of this lift kit you have been building and just want some more info on it. my slush fund is growing and need some where to spend it. ;D
Stu
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Well, it's a lift that works with the stock parts,
contains 3" spacers for the rear springs, 2"
spacers for the front springs, strut spacers, and
a rear axle wishbone arm extension that rotates
the rear axle about 1" back, and a pair of Crown
Victoria Rear Shocks.
Total bolt on, no welding cutting and is reversable
within an hour or two.
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what about camber?
Stu
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and what kind of jonit dose the wishbone have?
Stu
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Camber correction is fixed into the strut spacers.
The joint is the stock one on the top of the upper
rear control arm.
I guess I should put up a web page with the parts
installed, this is a simple easy to install lift, and I
get a RTI of 741 on a 20* ramp with this setup.
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Please DO! ;D
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OK I just got some quick and dirty pics :o
I'll post them in a few min
Wild
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:P
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Hey NY what's the :P For ???
LOL
Pictures
These are old crusty parts, put together on a whim from scrap
stuff that was just laying around, the ones I would make now
are precision cut and welded then painted for good looks.
The front spring spacer works just like the rear one, I don't
use the fronts anymore, I have longer springs now.
Front strut spacer
(http://wildcatent.freeyellow.com/strut-spacer.jpg)
Rear Spring Spacer
(http://wildcatent.freeyellow.com/rear-spring.jpg)
Diff Spacer
(http://wildcatent.freeyellow.com/rear-spacer.jpg)
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PICS. I LOVE PICS. :P ........NY :o
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how many inches does that lift yield?
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I'm vary impressed! i like it. whats the cost?
stu
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oh ya, whats a strut mount flip?
stu
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verry impressive
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This gives 3" front and rear, you don't want to flip
the strut mount with this setup, it will over extend the CVs
Cost $150 you supply the rear shocks from your
local auto supply, this will cut the shipping cost
since the shocks are nothing special.
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did you ever finsh your full floating rear axle?
Stu
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Not yet, I got all the research done, I'm
waiting on spindles now
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Now, that's what I'd like to see!! ;D
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This gives 3" front and rear, you don't want to flip
the strut mount with this setup, it will over extend the CVs
Cost $150 you supply the rear shocks from your
local auto supply, this will cut the shipping cost
since the shocks are nothing special.
ya but whats a strut mount flip? somebody got some pics?
stu
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The strut mount bolts normaly go thru the
bottom side of the frame, to flip the mount
you knock the studs out of the mount, put
bolts thru from the top of the frame and the
strut mount goes on the bottom of the frame
upside down, wrench it tight and put the strut
shaft back thru and tighten the strut nut on top.
Done :D
Wild
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ok i think i got it, thanks
stu
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a rear axle wishbone arm extension that rotates
the rear axle about 1" back, and a pair of Crown
Victoria Rear Shocks.
Total bolt on, no welding cutting and is reversable
within an hour or two.
(http://wildcatent.freeyellow.com/rear-spacer.jpg)
It looks like your kit over rotates the rear axle. If it does, how does everything bolt on with out having to move the lower spring cups and shock mounts?
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thats what i was thinking about last night before i went to sleep. so does it?
stu
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Front strut spacer
([url]http://wildcatent.freeyellow.com/strut-spacer.jpg[/url])
Rear Spring Spacer
([url]http://wildcatent.freeyellow.com/rear-spring.jpg[/url])
Hey Wild, notice that dust line on the strut shaft. That is the most compressed point that cylinder has gone on that shaft. Do you know if you were collapsing the bump stop?
Same q on the rear. The bump stop is contained within the coil mount. Looks like you didn't extend this. The point on it looks like it hasn't even touch the axle. So basically, you are bottoming the shock in the rear and possibly the front strut during compression.
Next time you ramp, or twist the Kick, stop and take a look underneath. Check for spaces for more compression on the shock, tire interference, etc. Don't forget to check the brake lines, parking brake cables, turning the front tires for better interference, etc.
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Yep, I never did extend the bump stops, I haven't
noticed any problems. The rear shocks are longer and
I think will contact the bump stop when it gets compressed
far enough, the front is a stock length, and should probably
be lengthend to fit, Funny I've been driving this lift for
4 years now and never noticed the need to fix this.
The rear doesn't have any problems with the Crown Vic
shocks, the other shocks I had were bigger Dia. and hit
a little, so I lengthened the lower mounts a little.
As far as the spring cups go, the angle doesn't bother
the spring, if you are worried about the spring, take a
look at the fronts, they have more angle than the rears
do and I have yet to have problems with them, so ........
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I don't know about the front but my Calimini 3" rear didn't extend the stops. When the rear bottoms out it's the coils fully compressed that acts as the stop. The power coating is coming off of them where they touch.
My truck has had a "Lot" of sand time. High speeds going into hills and air at the top. So my suspention gets the complete travel alot under hard conditions. Haven't had any problem so far. That also goes for my frame welds! ;D
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ya i'm almost worred about the welds on the frame. well not really. if i didn't think they would hold i would scrap the project and start over.
stu
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I did my own welds of the frame.
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we and my father shared welding duty. i'm pretty good but can't stand getting showed with sparks.
stu
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All in all how long do you think it took to lift your frame?
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more time than i had planed it too. i started last year and still not done(only have to lift the rad. now, then its done) of corse i have to go and keep up with school. have to keep those good grades coming ;) ;) ;)
stu
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I did the frame myself in a weekend. The rest took me the rest of the week.
Raise the motor
ratior
lengthen the lower rear arms
Drive shaft
other stuff that I had to undo from the body lift
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Interesting.
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With the 3 inches of lift front and rear, did you have to lengthen your brake lines or drive shafts?
You said that you were able to fix the front toe-in with the strut extension. Did you have the front end realigned or did you just eyeball it?
It's hard to tell by the pic exactly how you fabricated the rear extention. Is it a round spacer?
Rod
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I did the frame myself in a weekend.  The rest took me the rest of the week.
Raise the motor
        ratior
        lengthen the lower rear arms
        Drive shaft
        other stuff that I had to undo from the body lift
i never lenghened the lower arms. it dosn't look too bad to me? sould i?
stu
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With the 3 inches of lift front and rear, did you have to lengthen your brake lines or drive shafts?
You said that you were able to fix the front toe-in with the strut extension.  Did you have the front end realigned or did you just eyeball it?
It's hard to tell by the pic exactly how you fabricated the rear extention.  Is it a round spacer?
Rod
I loosened the brake lines, drive shafts work but should be longer,
I had it alligned, but I just measure and set it now. 1/64th" toe in.
Rear spring spacer is a heavy pipe 3" Dia 5" long.
I'm going to work on a SYE setup and I'm thinking
of using Sammy Drive Shafts being they have flanges
on both ends and a slip shaft in the middle.
I'll post it when I get it done, With Pics for NY Kicker
he likes Pics  :D
Wild
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i never  lenghened the lower arms.  it dosn't look too bad to me?  sould i?
stu
I never though of not doing it.  With a longer control arm you'll bet better articulation in the rear.
If you don't it will rotate you axil, probaly bind your shocks and of course limit you travel.
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You mentioned a 2" spacer in the front (I assume that it is similar to the rear 5" diameter pipe) that provided a 3" lift. Is the strut extension providing the additional 1" of lift?
You also mentioned that the toe-in was corrected with your strut extention, what did you do for toe-in when you installed the longer struts?
Rod
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I never though of not doing it.  With a longer control arm you'll bet better articulation in the rear.
If you don't it will rotate you axil, probaly bind your shocks and of course limit you travel.
well its all going to get changed soon anyway so i will just wait till i lift it and rotate the axle.
stu
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You mentioned a 2" spacer in the front (I assume that it is similar to the rear 5" diameter pipe) that provided a 3" lift.  Is the strut extension providing the additional 1" of lift?
You also mentioned that the toe-in was corrected with your strut extention, what did you do for toe-in when you installed the longer struts?
Rod
The front spacer is 4" total length, 2" in the spring (to hold it)
and 2" out to give lift, in the front of a Track/Kick 2" gives 3"
wheel movement down, it's a compound leverage thing ;)
The rear is 3" Dia pipe, 5" long 2" in the spring, 3" out for lift,
both front and rear are the same Dia. Pipe
The strut extensions are 3" also, and they correct Camber, not Toe-In
Toe-In is adjusted at the tierod end. The struts are stock length, tho
I'm playing with the Idea of longer custom struts to give better travel.
I'm also working on a new front CV/axle assembly that will increase the
lift from 3" Max which is limited by the CVs angle and the Cup, to 4" or 5"
with an increased angle of 15* more angle, stock CVs can go about 25*
angle these will be able to go 40* angle and not bind, so down the
suspension goes, with out the ill side effects of over extended CV cups
and bent wire retainer rings.
I'll keep you all posted
Wild
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what about A arms? those might be a big seller.
stu
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The A-arms I am going to build will
be wider than stock, and will work with
the new CVs and Axles, should give
about 30-40% more lift than the current
lifts that are available.
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oh sweet! i like that'
stu
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looks like we will all be awaiting that. that is most definently one thing all of us need. more lift!!!. well keep us posted and you are my idol :P
shane
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Wow, sounds killer....we'll all be waiting.
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This gives 3" front and rear, you don't want to flip
the strut mount with this setup, it will over extend the CVs ÂÂ
Wild, ÂÂ
 This looks like nice way to give a Tracker / Sidekick a boost & $150 beats the heck out of everyone else.
Just to recap it is:
   1. Front 2" coil spacer with Strut spacer, which due to the A-arm configuration actually give you 3" of lift.
   2. Rear 3" coil spacer, with upper wishbone spacer.
   Is the Upper strut spacer 2" or 3",  & same question on the rear wishbone spacer.
Also you wrote not to flip the Strut mount as this would over extend the CV's.  What kind of trave does the front end have up and down from static rest (weight on tires).  Sounds like the front is close to extended at rest.  What is the CV angle like with this set up.  In your testing how hard have you wheeled it?  Have you broken any front axle parts yet? ÂÂ
  I'm still trying to find the guestimated limit on the CV shafts with my 34's.  I keep hearing 2" lift is the limit due to CV angle.  I'm getting ready to drop my A-arms, strut tower, and housing, to minimize CV angle.  I am preparing to install GV 4-dr springs and a 2" spring spacer up front.  Undecided about the rear,  I'll throw in the GV springs and go from there.  I am considering extending the rear Wishbone and lower arms 1.5"  for more travel and to move the axle back some to keep it out of the doors.  ÂÂ
4-million questions...  :-/  Sorry.
                 Michael
PS. Please keep us posted on the advancement of your work on the CV/axle assy. That sounds like somthing I'll soon be needing.
New front CV/axle assembly that will increase the
lift from 3" Max which is limited by the CVs angle and the Cup, to 4" or 5"
with an increased angle of 15* more angle, stock CVs can go about 25*
angle these will be able to go 40* angle and not bind, so down the
suspension goes, with out the ill side effects of over extended CV cups
and bent wire retainer rings.
Wild
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OK, get ready, I got 4 Million Answers ;)
"Is the Upper strut spacer 2" or 3", & same
question on the rear wishbone spacer."
3" on both
"Also you wrote not to flip the Strut mount as this would over extend the CV's.
What kind of travel does the front end have up and down from static rest
(weight on tires). Sounds like the front is close to extended at rest.
What is the CV angle like with this set up. In your testing how hard
have you wheeled it? Have you broken any front axle parts yet?"
Front is in middle of travel range at rest.
CV is about where stock would be at full extension, while at rest.
Broken parts: (1) CV cage (1) 22 spline long side (Left) axle,
this is after running this lift for 3 years and turbo was running
full boost (150-160 HP)
"I'm getting ready to drop my A-arms, strut tower,
and housing, to minimize CV angle."
Just drop Axle Housing 1 or 2" would help lots, but
you will lose ground clearance (life is full of tradeoffs :'( )
"I am considering extending the rear Wishbone and lower
arms 1.5" for more travel and to move the axle back
some to keep it out of the doors."
You need to do a SYE or driveline spacers, if you rotate the axle,
you gain about 1" tire clearance, I'm going to move the rear axle
back about 1-1.5" for departure angle increase, I can hit 70* front
but not rear.
Wild
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Doesn't the Calmini 3" lift drop the front axle approximately 1"? It seems like losing 1" at the front axle would be worth gaining 1"-2" everywhere else. And reducing the angle of the CV joints (the weak link).
Did you build the entire engine around the turbo or did you do a bolt-on? In order to pump out 160hp to 170hp you must have built the engine.
Is a turbo helpful off road? Most don't kick in until 3,000 to 4,000 rpm.
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for the REAR use FRONT TJ coils. stock ones will give 2in of lift so with a spacer or lifted spring you can't go as high as you want.
stu
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Doesn't the Calmini 3" lift drop the front axle approximately 1"?  It seems like losing 1" at the front axle would be worth gaining 1"-2" everywhere else.  And reducing the angle of the CV joints (the weak link).
Did you build the entire engine around the turbo or did you do a bolt-on?  In order to pump out 160hp to 170hp you must have built the engine.
Is a turbo helpful off road?  Most don't kick in until 3,000 to 4,000 rpm.
Yes the Calmini kit dropps the front diff, it does this by twisting the
diff forward, I don't like the way it does this, but it's their design for
increasing the CVs life (I guess) I have not found CV life to be a factor.
In a manner of speaking, I built some of the engine for
a turbo, but for the most part it's a stock motor.
low CR pistons could be used but the 8.9:1 stock CR is not
too high for lower boost applications (5-8 PSI) more than
that and low CR is needed.
Big turbos don't kick in until the higher revs,this one boosts
just off 1500 and keeps on pulling thru 6000, not much lag,
but I picked a well matched stock unit for this purpose, it's
not a total killer boost turbo, but it gives a good kick ;D
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Looking for a "WILD" opinion on 4" Sidekick suspension lift.
I'm working on a 6" lift for my 1994 4dr Sidekick on 34" LTB Swampers.  I am currently aiming to drop all of the IFS components 4".  (A-arms, housing, and struts). ÂÂ
My plan is to run 2" body & 4" suspension.
 2" body (done)
 2" coil spacers (Jeep XJ, opened up cen to 2.5")
 2" Stock Grand Vitara 4-dr coils.
I figure that I'f i'm gonna go thru the trouble to design and build the bracketry might as well go 4".  If I drop everything 4" I should be runnnig stock CV angles and I could possibly add 1 more inch down the road.  Drive shaft issue will be addressed once the front end is back together and complete, but because of the length of the front D-shaft, I expect to just use a small spacer.
Looks like the front lower A will see some 2.5" x 6" x20" thick wall rectangular tube (Modified & gusseted).  Rear A cross member will get cut out and dropped 4" using 4"x1/4" flat stock.  Housing upper braces will receive a simple 4" drop using 3" wide 1/4" flatstock reinforced. ÂÂ
Strut towers will either get 4" spacers or the donor strut towers  may get chopped and bolted or welded in place.  I've still got to talk to my Alignment guy and get his recomendation.
I went to the U-pull it today and chopped the frame from a 4-dr JLX Kick,  I chopped it just in front of the a-pillar body mount.  Now I have a frame jig to work my suspension off of.   $40 and I can return it for a full refund in 30 days.
My Jeep Xj coil spacer went on slick with a 2.5" hole saw.
Sorry no pics been wrenching all day.  ÂÂ
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Frame jig, nice to have, 30 Days ? Work Quickly ;)
I think for the trouble, the 9" Jim Mazola lift would
be easier, uses stock mounts (reversable) and moves
the driveline down.
Problem is your ground clearance is not getting better,
bigger tires for increased clearance seems to be the
only way to recover from this, then you start taking out
CVs and Shafts.
My personal preference is to get as much out of the suspension
and leave the front diff up to clear the boulders ;)
A lift should provide 3 functions,
(1) To increase ground clearance
(2) To make room for bigger tires
(3) To increase articulation
I laugh at all the wanna be Chevy "Pre-Runners"
I see jacked up as high as they will go, does nothing
for articulation, fact is you will get stuck by over lifting
the suspension, because of lack of down travel ability.
If the tires cannot follow the terrain, how can they give
you traction ??? Lockers are great, but places I get into
if you can't drive all your wheels, you ain't gettin up it.
Some loose and steep situations need all available traction
and airborn tires can't catch enough wind to do the job.
If the lift you are building does this ;D ;D ;D ;D
Pics please, a sketch will do :)
That's the Wild opinion
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Frame jig, nice to have, 30 Days ?  Work Quickly  ;)
fact is you will get stuck by over lifting
the suspension, because of lack of down travel ability.
If the tires cannot follow the terrain, how can they give
you traction ???  Lockers are great, but places I get into
if you can't drive all your wheels, you ain't gettin up it.
Some loose and steep situations need all available traction and airborn tires can't catch enough wind to do the job.
A lift should provide 3 functions, ÂÂ
(1) To increase ground clearance ÂÂ
(2) To make room for bigger tires
(3) To increase articulation
If the lift you are building does this  ;D ;D ;D ;D
 So far I am only adding tires and trying to preserve the CV's.  I'll add articulation and stregnth as i progress.  The Suspension should have as much down travel as stock maybe more unless the GV coils limit me, but I'm looking at a winch bumper so more weight would help if they turn out to be stiff.  I think I'm gonna toss the factory sway bar for now, I havn't used on on a sammy for years and they are said to be more tippy.
So guess now I'll need to learn how add ground clearance and to make the IFS twist.  My set up should still memic stock design specs so all the tricks should still apply.
I am trying to avoid the over lifted  / no down travel situation.  I've done the max the toyota IFS tortion bar and add a body lift & 35's.  Can't stand to do that again.
                  thanks,
                     Michael
Ps. Have the camera charged up and will be running to the metal shop in the morning. Should be able to get some pics tomorrow.
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here this might help.
http://www.izook.com/tech/tracker/lift/tracker9inch.htm
and look at all the outher cool stuff they have too.
stu
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The only problem with that 9" lift is the fact that with the front end drop, it puts the ground clearance almost back to stock.
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The only problem with that 9" lift is the fact that with the front end drop, it puts the ground clearance almost back to stock.
Hmm, that was my point ;)
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The only problem with that 9" lift is the fact that with the front end drop, it puts the ground clearance almost back to stock.
I figure a stock tire is about 27" and my 34 Swamper LTB is about 33".  By the way I see it I'll gain 3" of ground clearance by the tires alone.  Anymore I can make up with the lift would be a bonus & I'll still have room to bump up the front suspension an inch or two if need be. ÂÂ
   With my 34's gearing will be a BIG issue,  using a 1:1 tranny gear and 1:1 t-case gear & 5.13:1 rp. my RPM's at 60 mph go from 3826.6 wiht 27's to 3130.9. with 33's. ÂÂ
Stu,  How are your 34's on the HWY?  My Kick is a 16v 150k auto with od. and Zuwharrie is 5 hrs HWY 60+ MPH one way...
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I'll post it when I get it done, With Pics for NY Kicker
he likes Pics  :D
Wild
;D ;) :P HEY THANKS :o I'M NOT REAL TECHNICAL :-[, SO PICTURES HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU GUYS ARE TALKING ABOUT ::) ;D MATTY D. 8)
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whitfield, YOUR RIG IS LOOKING GOOD.....DO YOU HAVE A WEB PAGE WITH ANY INFO & PICS. ....IF NOT CARDOMAIN OFFERS FREE WEBPAGES SO YOU CAN POST PICS. ON WEB & IN RETURN THEN POST SOME ON HERE ;D GOOD LUCK GETTING DONE & TO ZUHARRIE ;) MATTY D. 8)
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I figure a stock tire is about 27" and my 34 Swamper LTB is about 33".  By the way I see it I'll gain 3" of ground clearance by the tires alone.  Anymore I can make up with the lift would be a bonus & I'll still have room to bump up the front suspension an inch or two if need be. ÂÂ
   With my 34's gearing will be a BIG issue,  using a 1:1 tranny gear and 1:1 t-case gear & 5.13:1 rp. my RPM's at 60 mph go from 3826.6 wiht 27's to 3130.9. with 33's. ÂÂ
Stu,  How are your 34's on the HWY?  My Kick is a 16v 150k auto with od. and Zuwharrie is 5 hrs HWY 60+ MPH one way...
i have a 8V, 5 speed, stock t-case and 5.12's and HWY is almost impossable(sp). i mostly stick to back roads and streets. the brakes are a issue too. but sence you have a 4 door it might be better. with an auto it might not be HWY able with 5.12's.
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i have a 8V, 5 speed, stock t-case and 5.12's and HWY is almost impossable(sp).  i mostly stick to back roads and streets.  the brakes are a issue too.  but sence you have a 4 door it might be better.  with an auto it might not be HWY able with 5.12's.
I've looked at the gearing and a Sammy T-case (1.2:1 in Hi range) set up behing the factory kick range box would be the perfec reduction, bringing me back to stock gearing #'s on the HWY.  Yes a toyota T-case would be stronger, or a 4:1 might be a little cleaner install but I don't believe either will give you the hi range reduction offer by the Sammy T-case.  Just a thought to work on later... ÂÂ
Using GV auto tranny Specs: (I couldn't find the kick ones)
engine RPM | MPH | tire size | Trans gear
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
2793.4 RPM |removethispart|@ 60mph with 27 in 4th (Auto, in OD)
2742.6 RPM |removethispart|@ 60 mph with 33 in OD with sammy T-case
3826.6 RPM |removethispart|@ 60mph with 27 in 3rd (Auto, Not in OD)
3130.9 RPM |removethispart|@ 60mph with 33 in 3rd (Auto, Not in OD)
My 34" LTB's measure a true 33" if you are running a Mud radial they may measure smaller.
of course now with the 34's the Speedo will only be reading 49 MPH |removethispart|@ 60mph in 3rd...
I'll try to get pics up when I can but lately between working on the Kick and work, I've been short on time.  I made the 4 hr road trip this morning to get my GV springs and extra doors  ;D half door project, Luckly I didn;t have to drive.  By this 5pm this evening I had been up 36 hrs,  gotta love shift work.
The brackets for the lift are not complicated but are very time consuming.  Hope to maybe get some pics tomorrow, If I get up before dark.
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SOUNDS LIKE YOU'LL BE A BUSY BEAVER AT WORK ;D
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Ok so. would any of you nice gentalmen give me the blueprints for those A-arms again? ;D
stu
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http://wildcatent.freeyellow.com/moveit.bmp
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thanks you!
stu
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It's not a blueprint, as it's not in scale
but you get the idea I was trying to get
across
And Your Welcome
Wild
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have you built them? do you have a diffent pic?
stu
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not yet, I have modified the design concept
a little for additional lift. but it also requires
some custom made parts that would be hard
for the average builder to make, so for now
I need more time before I release new drawings.
Wild
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what about struts? how much longer are ome struts?
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Well, it's a lift that works with the stock parts,
contains 3" spacers for the rear springs, 2"
spacers for the front springs, strut spacers, and
a rear axle wishbone arm extension that rotates
the rear axle about 1" back, and a pair of Crown
Victoria Rear Shocks.
Total bolt on, no welding cutting and is reversable
within an hour or two.
What does the wish bone arm extension do that helps you? more articulation?
I
get a RTI of 741 on a 20* ramp with this setup.
what do this mean comparred to stock?
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The extension rotates the axle back, which makes the drive flange
point right at the T-case, and it also corrects the LSPV (rear brake
proportioning valve) so the brakes work like they were supposed to
Wild
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cool thanks and do you know about the articulation how much better it is than stock?
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I scored a 759 RTI at the high desert roundup, not bad for a stockish suspension