ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Performance / Modify => Topic started by: KJMac on June 23, 2012, 11:12:19 AM
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I have a 1994 sidekick with 16 valve with 5 speed. Can somebody tell me what the white wire is form? Reference voltage?
Thanks,
KJ
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More specifics?? Maybe a photo. White wires do supply voltage for ECM memory.
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I don't have a picture, I can get one! It is the white wire coming out of the distributor and goes to the computer. There is a brown wire as well that goes to from the noise filter to the computer. I'm trying to get my damn megasquirt going, the ignition isnt working!
Thanks for you input. I'm still trying some configurations. It is the plug n play so I'm using the factory harness and plugs. Pain in the Ass!
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I have a 1994 sidekick with 16 valve with 5 speed. Can somebody tell me what the white wire is form? Reference voltage?
Thanks,
KJ
CMP (camshaft position) sensor input. With the key on and the signal rotor between the hall element and the magnet, there should be 3-5 volts on that wire. With the key on and the signal rotor not between the hall element and the magnet, there should be 0-1 volts on that wire.
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skyhiranger,
Thank you for the information! I will use it for my input. Do you know if I need the brown wire coming off of the noise suppression filter?
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skyhiranger,
Thank you for the information! I will use it for my input. Do you know if I need the brown wire coming off of the noise suppression filter?
I think you do. IIRC, if you unhook/unplug the noise filter on a stock 16V trackick, the engine won't start.
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So do you have any idea if it is necessary on the megasquirt to trigger ignition. Im pretty(lol) sure if you unhook the noise filter you cut power to the ignition on a factory computer. You would then need to bypass it and hook the power up to coil.which looks to be the brown with yellow. I'm going to try it. Would the brown wire need power from the computer or gives power to the computer?
Where is the damn HEI? Her comes the volt meter. Thanks!!
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I have no idea if you need it for a MS app.
Looking at the wiring diagrams, the ignition signal to the factory ECM comes through the noise suppressor filter. So if the filter is unhooked, that cuts the ignition signal to the ECM. So I believe that is why the engine won't start, in a factory configuration, if the filter is removed/unhooked.
If you want to research error code 41 (ignition signal circuit...no signal), then that may help you figure out what you need for a MS app., to get the engine to run.
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It looks like the white wire is the sensor wire to the computer, it is the 5 volt to 0 and back to five when the the metal passes through the hall sensor. Is the brown the tach sensors like on the 96-98? I know the Orange is the 5 volt from computer to to igniter. I will se what is up with the brown wire tomorrow! Thanks again!
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Look at the FSM for all the wire colors.... although i am not 100% positive the early years are the same... my application is a 96. My guess is if you have the same pin locations and wire colors the FSM should be correct.
http://www.driftwoodchimes.com/zuki1018/turbo_samurai_megasquirt.html (http://www.driftwoodchimes.com/zuki1018/turbo_samurai_megasquirt.html)
http://www.acksfaq.com/96-FSM-v2-8A-20_pdf.htm (http://www.acksfaq.com/96-FSM-v2-8A-20_pdf.htm)
White is the signal "output" from the CMP in the dizzy to the ECU "Input" ...if that helps any. You will need to know how your MS is setup internally (switching low-to-high, or high-to-low with either a 5v or 12v reference.).
Blk/white (or Pin 7 on the dizzy plug) should be the 12v source (fused) for the internal coil
Brn/white (or Pin 6) should be the ground switching that MS needs to signal/fire the coil.
BTW those are the only 2 connections i have to run mine with MS (see pix on my page). The 12v supply to coil and the output from MS for ignition.
Are you trying to run using "only" the distributor hall sensor for input? ...or does it use the crank position sensor in addition? The reason I ask is because using only the dizzy, MS will not know which stroke your on. This is the reason I decided to use a crank mounted 36-1 missing tooth sprocket.
What does the PNP instructions tell u to hook up for spark inputs exactly?
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It looks like the white wire is the sensor wire to the computer, it is the 5 volt to 0 and back to five when the the metal passes through the hall sensor. Is the brown the tach sensors like on the 96-98? I know the Orange is the 5 volt from computer to to igniter. I will se what is up with the brown wire tomorrow! Thanks again!
I was looking in a 95 FSM, for my info I posted.
Yes, it looks like the brown wire is the tach input input into the ECM. And like I said, when the filter is unhooked, that cuts the tach input into the ECM. So I believe that when the ECM doesn't see the tach input, it won't allow the engine to start.
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Ugh... I went through enough wiring using the pre-made DIY harness. I cannot imagine trying to sync up all the stock wires to MS. Im not sure which one would be more of a head banger!
Have you already setup MS for 2nd trigger input?
Where did you hook up the ignition "inputs"? ...the white/black shielded pair on the external diagram? You would need one for each sensor correct?
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I think you do. IIRC, if you unhook/unplug the noise filter on a stock 16V trackick, the engine won't start.
It shouldn't be required on the Megasquirt - it's an ignition sense that the stock ECU uses as a "safety" - if the engine quits running, there is no signal and the ECU shuts down the fuel system to reduce the possibility of a fire - think accident here, other manufacturers use impact switches, Suzuki senses in this case ignition pulses, and on some of their other vehicles, oil pressure and/or alternator output.
It also provides a pulse to drive the tachometer, so you might want to leave it in place.
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I think you do. IIRC, if you unhook/unplug the noise filter on a stock 16V trackick, the engine won't start.
It shouldn't be required on the Megasquirt - it's an ignition sense that the stock ECU uses as a "safety" - if the engine quits running, there is no signal and the ECU shuts down the fuel system to reduce the possibility of a fire - think accident here, other manufacturers use impact switches, Suzuki senses in this case ignition pulses, and on some of their other vehicles, oil pressure and/or alternator output.
It also provides a pulse to drive the tachometer, so you might want to leave it in place.
The noise filter "itself" is not required for MS... however this circuit is definitely the wire on the OUTPUT side FROM MS which needs to be wired at pin 36 (for MS1 at least) which will use to fire the coil. And like mentioned, your factory tach will need this circuit hooked up it as-is to work.
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...also im not sure "how far along" you are so for what its worth, you need to be ensuring MS input side of things are correct if you haven't already.
In other words, if your not seeing a crank signal in the tooth/trigger logger while cranking... then your inputs are not right.
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Thanks Fordem and Zuki1018,
The DIY pnp is using the miccrosquirt on the ms2 Extra setup so it is a little different than yours. I have tried all but one other way they show to hook it up. I got it to run crappy and I just shut it off. I'm using the white 0-5 volt for input on option+ and have had the brown wire is unhooked right now. Do I hook that up to tach out on my ms? There are VR-/ VR+ , VR2, Opt+/Opt-. There is a tach out, would I hook up the brown to tach out! I checked it and it has 10 volts.
I'm pulling my hair out! Do you have a ground on the computer board other than through the plug? I'm just using grounds the factory harness uses.
Zuki 1018,
What tuning program and settings are you using for your ignition? I see the rising and falling edge, going low(normal) going high, inverted etc..
I will go over your parameters. Mine does say on the dash of tuner studio it isn't synced!
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I got it to run crappy and I just shut it off.
Im not familiar with the differences of my MS and yours. Does it already have a wheel decoder and/or a second wheel setting for you based on the G16 engine?
There are VR-/ VR+ , VR2, Opt+/Opt-. There is a tach out, would I hook up the brown to tach out! I checked it and it has 10 volts.
VR and Opt are different types of inputs. Opt is an optical sensor which you can eliminate as the G16 has only a hall and or VR. Pin 6 on the dizzy plug should be the tach signal as discussed.
I'm pulling my hair out! Do you have a ground on the computer board other than through the plug? I'm just using grounds the factory harness uses.
Yes grounds are SUPER important. I have multiple separate ground locations including some to battery, block, and chassis. Factory grounds should be okay since that seems what the PNP suggests.
Zuki 1018,
What tuning program and settings are you using for your ignition? I see the rising and falling edge, going low(normal) going high, inverted etc..
I will go over your parameters. Mine does say on the dash of tuner studio it isn't synced!
Do you have any communications working? ...water or air temps showing up?... does your TPS show accurate when you move the throttle? Our ignition setup will be different. I am using 1 wheel with wheel decoder settings.
You are waaaay better off posting on the Megasquirt forums if haven't already. Attaching the FSM wire pin-outs for the dizzy over there will yield a lot more specific answers.
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I have all communications but ignition. In the TS for diypnp they said to do the setup I'm trying now. 5 v signal from hall and opt ground with a jumper. The brown from noise filter isn't hooked up. The white is B3 and going to Opt + which is for optical or hall sensor in distributor. Here is diagram I'm using. Thanks. Not familiar with Suzuki I've at ms but they give ignition option of swift and vitara already down loaded.
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I have all communications but ignition.
When you say ignition, its hard to follow you exactly because you have the INPUT from the engine to MS. Then you have the OUTPUT from MS back to the dizzy. Im not sure which one your not getting wired correct.
You need to confirm your SPARK INPUT is right before you try cranking the engine... which will confirm your OUTPUT is correct.
SPARK INPUT is tested by the crank/trigger log tool in megatune while cranking (fuel injector fuse pulled so it doesn't try to start).
Once MS knows where your engine is in timing, then you can test a spark plug with a timing light. You need to test with timing light to confirm MS reads actual crank timing ...before you try to start the engine with fuel pump fuse back in.
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Do you have an external coil on that engine?
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Ok, I'm using tuner studio so would I us the trigger wizard? It is external coil. Can you tell me what the pink wire does that is going A5 to fuel pump relay? Thank you very much!
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It is external coil.
OOH... i have the internal coil. I dunno how much i can help!
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You have helped already! I'm unsure of the fuel pump relay pink wire, is that for 5v?
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Can you tell me what the pink wire does that is going A5 to fuel pump relay? Thank you very much!
Looks like what activates the circuit/gate to me just looking at the diagram.
My initial guess is PIN 37 on MS to the fuel pump relay.
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Thank you for you help! It was a jumper wire! It runs now just need to tune it! So I can load your file to mine? I might do that I have it on auto tune. Did you delete your idle air controller?
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Thank you for you help! It was a jumper wire! It runs now just need to tune it! So I can load your file to mine? I might do that I have it on auto tune. Did you delete your idle air controller?
Awesome! ...congrats.
I would load the file, but not burn/load it to MS. Open it and go to the fuel and spark tables and export them. Then go back and open your file and import them. This way it will not change everything... only the 2 tables.
FYI i have the stock injectors, stock fuel pressure and the T25 turbo also. You should have a very decent tune using my 2 tables. I may suggest backing off the timing table to start with before you go max throttle/boost... just in case something is different somewhere.
Second to that method, you could load my entire file, then go back and change your code based/output stuff to reflect your setup. Remember I am using the wheel decoder option... yours is probably distributor.
Yeah i removed the idle air. Then next problem you may have is heat soaked IAT sensor with megasquirt. Again... you can always load my entire file which i have "tweaked" this issue to some degree. I eventually ended up relocating my IAT to the front bumper. MS1 is not as fancy dealing with this problem.
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Ok, I will probably do that then, load your table or load all and modify the ignition. It isn't running to good but haven't had much time to do it, your tables will help that. I have no experience with this so it will be a long learning curve. The mega log viewer is really neat and I'm looking forward to using it! Thanks again, I will take your advice and I appreciate your help!