ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Model Specific Suzuki Forum => Suzuki Grand Vitara, Vitara, Chevy Tracker (Gen. 2 Platform) 1999-2005 => Topic started by: AJMBLAZER on July 26, 2012, 05:35:19 PM
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Going to replace both CV shafts on the Tracker. One's got a split boot and the other still has 115,000 on it.
I've done a couple of CV shaft replacements on both sides of 89-98 Trackers. Put a spacer lift on a '03 Grand Vitara once and had to almost pull the CV for that.
When I pulled the passenger side (US) shafts from the first Gen there was nothing harder than it just being a general PITA to get that long F'er out of there with everything in the way. Reading my GM service manual it says I need to drop the front diff to pull the CV shaft out of the Passenger side (US)? Is this correct?
What's this circlip thing it keeps talking about? I remember a heavy wire coil thingy...I think...from last time.
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To get out the passenger side, you have two choices - drop the diff (which would not be my choice) OR disconnect the knuckle so you can get the shaft out - disconnecting the knuckle is easier, as long as you remember to put a jack under the control arm..
The circlip is a circular spring wire clip that fits in a groove in the CV stub to retain it in the diff side gear - more oftem than not, it doesnot compress to allow the stub to pull free and you end up breaking it (the wire circlip) - it's not that big of a problem as long as you get all the pieces out of the diff.
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Here's pics of those circlips on the end of the axle side they refer to. It helps if you rotate your CV between taps as you are driving it out to help center up the circlip on the spline shaft to give it an 'opportunity' to compress together versus hook on the lip of the side gear in the diff.
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Okay. I remember that circlip then.
If it breaks I take it I have to take the 3rd out of the housing?
Wondering about dropping the whole differential. It's spent it's life in the rust belt and it isn't horrible but that probably means the knuckle probably wouldn't come off easy.
Wish me luck. Going at this on Saturday. Hopefully I get it all done. School starts again in 3 weeks and I won't have time after that.
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im confused on this, my vitara has two short shafts on both sides, passenger side is held on with a clip on an end and a snap ring in the other, i know i just take the ball joint off and the tie rod then move the spindle off the way and slide out the cv at the same time, for the driver side its even easie, i have to remove the snap ring and then 3 bolts and the whole thing just slides off, what year is that tracker? i got a few friends and they all got the same set up as mine
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It's the same setup as yours - both generations of Tracker use a similar design - the differences are internal to the diff assembly - the drive shafts come out the same way.
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difftoyota, that's two pics of the (same) end of the passenger CV. You are right, the driver side is held on with 3 bolts to an inner axle... and the inner axle has the same circlip type spring on the end of it inside the diff.
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ak the way i took it was like if the inner and outer shaft was one piece (no 3 bolt)
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Starting this in a while. Wish me luck.
FYI - I think a while back 1st gen Tracker guys who were offroading but keeping IFS were trying to make it so both sides of the diff used stub shafts like the d-side. They made some kind of short shaft for the P-side that worked with a D-side shaft and bolted on. Easy shaft replacement since the breakages is usually the CV's.
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Starting this in a while. Wish me luck.
FYI - I think a while back 1st gen Tracker guys who were offroading but keeping IFS were trying to make it so both sides of the diff used stub shafts like the d-side. They made some kind of short shaft for the P-side that worked with a D-side shaft and bolted on. Easy shaft replacement since the breakages is usually the CV's.
To do this you will have do a widening modification or get wider A arms to have enough room. Also need to have a P-side inner CV shaft turned and a flange welded on so the D-side CV can bolt up. It does make changing CV's much easier.
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Trying to remember.
Thinking it did involve widening and possibly even a Toyota IFS front diff? Now I'm thinking there was some Toyota DNA in there somewhere.
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So I take it the circlip is supposed to be there even after a CV shaft swap right?
The replacement one didn't come with one. Hopefully I can get the CV shaft out without breaking the old one and then remove it without breaking it and then install it on the new one without breaking it.
...if...if...if...if...
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I didnt have to do any widening to use a stub shaft for the pass side to use the drivers side outer CV on the pass side, just a spare pass side CV stub from a shot CV axle and had a 3 bolt flange welded on.
Calmini does make a pass side stub shaft already for their Anvil axle housing, contact them to see if they will sell the stub by itself. A pass side drive shaft support is really required, they can be found thru Suzuki for 79$, I am having a CNC shop make a bunch for 1/5th the price!!!!
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A pass side drive shaft support is really required, they can be found thru Suzuki for 79$, I am having a CNC shop make a bunch for 1/5th the price!!!!
Is this the nylon insert that goes behind the seal? Are you planning on selling them?
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Started late and the D-side was more of a chore to get out than I remembered. Now the GF wants to go out to dinner. Need to go throw it back together.
P-side will have to keep waiting.
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A pass side drive shaft support is really required, they can be found thru Suzuki for 79$, I am having a CNC shop make a bunch for 1/5th the price!!!!
Is this the nylon insert that goes behind the seal? Are you planning on selling them?
Yes it is the support bearing Suzuki came up with to prevent the pass side seal from being worn out prematurely and also from the CV torqueing the housing. And yes I will be having enough made to have some for sale. Going to step up to Delrin instead of the Suzuki's nylon 6/6 with additional drain holes for housings that are dropped and or a vehicle that sees extreme angles for extended periods.
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So lemme get this straight...with this doemahickey of yours, a Calmini stubshaft, and a regular D-side CV shaft someone could basically bolt onto their Tracker/Vitara a bolt on CV shaft setup?
Driver's side is done. Garage is a mess. Tracker went around the block fine though. Passenger side hopefully tomorrow...maybe. Oy.
Having some locking hub issues though. Ask those separately.
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After battling with a variety of PITA things this weekend I have it done. Mostly. Need to fill the front diff back up since a little gear oil leaked out. Also need to check up on the D-side since I think I did something wrong. Easy to check though.
However...the spacer at the end of the passenger side CV shaft that goes between the unit bearing hub surface and the lock ring...I CAN NOT get that thing in there at all. Just not enough room for it between the lock ring grove and the hub surface. If I put it on there the lock ring won't go in at all.
I've got a 8mm bolt threaded into the shaft and have yanked and yanked on it and the damn thing will not budge out further. Vehicle is back on the ground and has moved back and forth down my driveway and over the curb several times. Any thoughts?
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I had the SAME thing happen to me during my new CV install on the passenger side. the driver's side went on slick. No problem but the passenger side was a totally different story. I ran a bolt in to pull the CV outward more as well.... but no dice. I ended up taking the snap ring and washer over to a friend who owns a machine shop and had him micro polish both of them, remove a few thousandths and then took them back to the truck.... slipped them back on and started grunting and tugging on the CV... got to ALMOST pop on, then reached around to the inside of the CV shaft, gave it a quarter turn and the snap ring "popped" into position. It's crazy. Possibly I warped the snap ring slightly with the snap ring pliers during removal. It was a pain in the arse.
I did pack the new inner seal with a little grease and coated the new CV spline with grease and thought MAYBE I was working against the conpressed grease in the knuckle. Don't know for sure. But it finally snapped on and 've had no problems with it to date.
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Might have to do something like that.
Think the lock ring alone would be enough to get to work and back with? I have to be at work in 6.5 hours.
Figures our machinist hurt himself and quit a few months ago and hasn't been replaced... :(
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I ran without the spacer and just the snapring for about 50 miles without any issues untill I could locate a spacer(lost one somehow during my lift install)....
You may need to hand hone the spacer slightly to get your snapring to seat in the groove. I had to do exactly that for a neighbors tracker.
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A pass side drive shaft support is really required, they can be found thru Suzuki for 79$, I am having a CNC shop make a bunch for 1/5th the price!!!!
Is this the nylon insert that goes behind the seal? Are you planning on selling them?
Those nylon inserts work great! I have no idea why they cost so much from suzuki, although it's still cheaper than buying them from Altered Ego Motorsports. 80 bucks for a nylon donut!
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Was going to try and mill or sand down that spacer today so it would give me room to get the lock ring in place.
Pulled my cover off and noticed the space seemed wider than before. Stuck the spacer in from the side and sure enough it was a perfect fit.
Somewhere in the last 100 miles everything "evened out" or whatever and the CV shaft is now seated correctly.
Now to figure out the old Warn hubs I bought.
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Sweet! That has to be a relief. Maybe the answer in the future is just snap the snap ring on... drive on it, let the CV seat itself and just do what you did. I'll file that away for future reference versus getting frustrated at fitting them on.
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It was a pleasant surprise to be sure.
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AJM, while you have your old CVs near by, lay them side by side and check out the differences in length on them. NOT much. I was looking at my old ones today trying to visualize shortening the passenger side to mod it to be able to use a driver side CV. The missing piece in the picture is an inner shaft from the driver side. I know a gentleman who can weld bubble gum and I know he would be up to laying a bead around the hybrid shaft.
Seriously though, how well and long would one of the Suzuki bushings hold or support the short shaft on the passenger side? I'm wondering if the bushing would prevent the CV from totally munching the passenger side housing seal within a few thousand miles versus 50 or 60K miles. Guess it would be preferable to no bushing or bearing at all, but still I'd like to have some idea of how well a bushing would work versus a support bearing on the passenger side.
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Mine are gone. I tossed them in the trash and they were gone on Tuesday.
I'm working on my Bachelor's degree and honestly just don't have time to dink with this stuff. Money? Hah! This needed to get done so I spent the money. The hubs...well...so sue me. I just need a reliable DD right now.
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Seriously though, how well and long would one of the Suzuki bushings hold or support the short shaft on the passenger side? I'm wondering if the bushing would prevent the CV from totally munching the passenger side housing seal within a few thousand miles versus 50 or 60K miles. Guess it would be preferable to no bushing or bearing at all, but still I'd like to have some idea of how well a bushing would work versus a support bearing on the passenger side.
There are a set of drawings floating around the web on adding a bearing - possibly on the AusZookers (http://www.auszookers.com/forum) website.
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t218/Gwagensteve1/P9230028.jpg)
This is from this thread (http://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6953)
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Seriously though, how well and long would one of the Suzuki bushings hold or support the short shaft on the passenger side? I'm wondering if the bushing would prevent the CV from totally munching the passenger side housing seal within a few thousand miles versus 50 or 60K miles. Guess it would be preferable to no bushing or bearing at all, but still I'd like to have some idea of how well a bushing would work versus a support bearing on the passenger side.
There are a set of drawings floating around the web on adding a bearing - possibly on the AusZookers ([url]http://www.auszookers.com/forum[/url]) website.
([url]http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t218/Gwagensteve1/P9230028.jpg[/url])
This is from this thread ([url]http://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6953[/url])
The Gen 1 right shaft is much larger down to the spline, and is able to be held in place by differential sleeve/support for that side bearing. If Gen 2 right shaft is smaller diameter as in photo, then a Samurai third member could be used without machining the bearing support sleeve.
Or, has that shaft been turned down to be able to use a bearing?
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I think the gen1 and gen2 CV ends are of similar design towards the end of the CV that fits into the side driver of the diff... with the main difference of the splined part being longer on the ist gen (I think). They both have the larger shoulders before the splined ends that ride against the seal in the axle housing.
That small shaft in the pic Fordem sent appears to be just the cut-down shaft and 3-bolt flange from the inner driver side axle which (by looking at the pic) would require a small bearing and a seal with a smaller opening to contain the diff oil (as pictured).
I have seen other pics of a fabbed 3 bolt flange with the larger shoulder of the CV shaft still attached to it. The seal on a 3 bolt flange with the larger shoulder could and a plastic bushing would last for awhile, anyway, but a bearing and seal would be 'more better'.
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FORDEM, I FOUND THAT THREAD YOU REFERRED TO ON THE AUZOOKS FORUM. THANK YOU MUCH.
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Uhh - you're welcome - for anyone else who wants to see it - there's actually a link (the words "this thread") in the post that should take you there.
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Yes, I used your provided link, but it was a long thread and a bit convoluted because it covers a couple of good topics. One is the poly bushing that Suzuki came out with during that period and sandwiched on the outside is the discussion of a bearing housing. One of the guys on the Auzook forum provided a cad diagram of the housing (below). It doesn't cover the bearing housing bolt taps very well, however I think a person could figure that part out since they did the lion's share of the work on it. A great forum site by the way and I am sure a great bunch of guys. I've thought hundreds of times about the great people on these forums and what a drag it is so many live so far apart and are separated by thousands of miles of ocean in many cases. It would be a blast to bring several thousand of them together.
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A bit of topic, but I couldn't agree with you more - in fact one of my early experiences with this forum was posting a want ad in the classifieds just after I got my GV, and within a week or two, one of the forum members mailed me the clips I was looking for - he wouldn't take money for the part, and he wouldn't take money for the postage.
Rick - I've never forgotten that - thanks again...