ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Model Specific Suzuki Forum => Suzuki Samurai (All SJ Platform) 1981-1998 => Topic started by: JDebler on August 05, 2012, 06:54:02 PM
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Hey all!
I wanted to introduce myself and my recent purchase.
In the early 90's, I took a job as a teenager trying to sell cars. I didn't do very well because I don't like to lie to people for money or any other reason. However, the first car I did sell honestly was a white Suzuki Samurai. I had to take it home for the night and I found out that while rather slow...it was a fun little rig to drive. I didn't think much about it after that, becasue I was always a speed freak. About 17 year ago, I co-founded what became the largest Camaro site on the Internet and had remained involved in Camaros since then.
Not long ago, I sold my most recent Camaro which left a void for a project. I am taking a break from the Camaro scene and my son will be 16 in a couple of months. I realized that getting a Samurai would be a fun project for him and I to tinker with, maybe do some trail driving and summer fun with the top off and driving up to northern Michigan where we get away for weekend. Nothing like hardcore rock crawling for us, just a fun toy and grocery getter for the wife. It just seemed like a cheap and fun vehicle to work with and my son seemed interested in it when he is normally only interested football, wrestling, XBox, and texting the world 24 hours a day.
It is hard to find a good Samurai in my area. I had to start searching out of my range. I didn't want something that was a total mess of a project that would take a long time to get in good running order. But, I wanted something that still had room to play with, do some upgrades, etc.
I found this eBay listing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1986-SUZUKI-SAMURAI-4X4-LIKE-NEW-CONDITION-NEW-CALMINI-SUSPENSION-LIFT-/271030270420?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3f1aa9b9d4 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1986-SUZUKI-SAMURAI-4X4-LIKE-NEW-CONDITION-NEW-CALMINI-SUSPENSION-LIFT-/271030270420?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3f1aa9b9d4)
I called up the seller, talked to him for a bit and ended up striking a deal with him!
Now I just have to arrange for a way to get it from California to Michigan.
So I know I will need more power. My last Camaro had 600 horsepower. The Samurai has literally...1/10th of that. ;)
Today, I found this listing on my local Craigslist:
FS:
1992 Suzuki Sidekick 1.6 16 valve engine complete with harness & ECU. Miles are unknown but ran good before it was pulled. $400
Link to video of it before it was pulled: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRy_ZCJnMhc&feature=youtu.be[/url] ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRy_ZCJnMhc&feature=youtu.be[/url])
This is the engine used for the notorious "big block swap" for a Samurai to double its horsepower from 60 hp to 120hp.
Also have complete power steering setup good for upgrade on Samurai or to put on your Tracker / Sidekick that had manual steering from the factory
Drove up there, talked to the guy and struck a deal for the kit! Thurs out, they build hardcore rock crawler Suzuki's for fun so I made a new group of friends.
I see on eBay there are decent rebuild kits out there. I was thinking of getting one and taking it to my local machine shop and have him freshen up the 1.6 and possible even have it bored out a little bit for a bit more power. Get that engine in good shape with 130-140 hp with a header and I should be good to go.
So...am I on the right track so far? What do you guys think?
Thoughts, advice or even a "looks like a good deal" comment (I hope it would be fitting) will be most appreciated!
-Jason
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What a great looking Sami! I'm not sure I would even touch it. Seriously, I missed out on it because I was in Moab Utah all last week so if you want to sell it, let me know. I'm looking for a Sami but there are none in my area, and certianly none this nice.
Rob
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It looks fairly clean from the pics, but they want way to much for it for what it is.
In addition:
-this "1986" Samurai has a 1998.5 and up dash. front grill, wiring harness, stabilizer bar etc Something is a little fishy there, as in the VIN has been swapped from an 86 Samurai onto an 88.5 Samurai. The super low mileage is another indicator of something stinky.
-the lack of any gearing to compensate for the 31" tires isn't good. I'm sure that it's incredibly slow all around and smokes the clutch offroad. You will need to upgrade the gearing as soon as you get it.
-those lift springs ride rough and do not flex. You will feel every pebble in the road. Personally, I think those springs are pretty much worthless. Only good for mall cruisers.
As far as the 1.6 16-valve engine swap, there is no way you will get 130-140 hp out of that engine without boosting it. The head already flows very well, much better than the 8-valve head.
If you are actually going to take this thing offroad, just find a nice beater that you can flat tow to the trails. It will get all kinds of dents and scrapes offroad. Also, you do not need HP for the trails, you need gearing.
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It looks fairly clean from the pics, but they want way to much for it IMHO
Around here, a beater but solid/road worthy Samurai goes for around 4-5k. I figured that 6,500 was reasonable based on that.
-this "1986" Samurai has a 1998.5 and up dash. Something is a little fishy there.
Yup, they mentioned in the listing that they put a newer dash in it. Although I am not sure why...
-the lack of any gearing to compensate for the 31" tires isn't good either. I'm sure that it's incredibly slow all around and smokes the clutch offroad.
This is where I need to learn from experts like you guys. What do you think the gearing should be for all-around use...including city/highway driving (grocery getting, driving to work, driving to go up north for the weekend)? I plan to switch to a less aggressive tire but perhaps keep the same size.
-those lift springs ride rough and do not flex. Personally, I think they are pretty much worthless and they will be the first thing that gets removed.
What do you think I should get instead?
As far as the 1.6 16-valve engine swap, there is no way you will get 130-140 hp out of that engine without boosting it. The head already flows very well, much better than the 8-valve head.
I was just throwing numbers out there. Will a rebuilt 1.6l 16v get better power than taking the 1.3 and adding a carb/header to it? I just want to make sure it can keep up with traffic on the highway and get out of its own way overall.
If you are actually going to take this thing offroad, just find a nice beater that you can flat tow to the trails. Also, you do not need HP for the trails, you need gearing.
Nah, no intent of doing that. Just want to have some fun making it nice for my son and I. Basic screwing around. Although, I am told once you start, you are inclined to get sucked in pretty quickly. We'll see. :)
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If you're just going to drive it on the street, I would not purchase a Samurai. I would buy a Sidekick or Tracker as they are light years ahead over the Samurai in that dept. Also, I know it might be considered treason around here, but based on things you have posted, I think you would be much happier with a Jeep Wrangler than a Samurai.
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Thanks, but it is kinda late...already purchase and will be in transit to me soon.
I just wanted something inexpensive and fun to tinker with. A Wrangler around here would cost twice as much as a Samurai. A Sidekick/Tracker? Nah...
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Well I hate to tell you, but it's an 1988.5 or 1989 model year and not a 1986. The VIN has been swapped and the mileage claimed is probably far from actual. Who knows what the true history of the vehicle is?
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Well I hate to tell you, but it's an 1988.5 or 1989 model year and not a 1986. The VIN has been swapped and the mileage claimed is probably far from actual. Who knows what the true history of the vehicle is?
How can you tell?
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Nice looking samurai, very clean. If it really has a rebuilt motor you might want to re gear the transfer case gears and just drive it for awhile. That same seller was selling a tintop http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=271023861687 (http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=271023861687) with a claimed 19,000 original miles and was looking to get $18,500, looks like it sold for $6700.
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Well I hate to tell you, but it's an 1988.5 or 1989 model year and not a 1986. The VIN has been swapped and the mileage claimed is probably far from actual. Who knows what the true history of the vehicle is?
How can you tell?
Look at the Items I listed above. I'm sure if I saw it in person, I could pick out many more 88.5 items.
The vin on the frame has likely been altered or doesn't match the vin on the dash. Plus, the other comment about him selling another super low mileage Samurai....something is fishy.
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Look at the Items I listed above. I'm sure if I saw it in person, I could pick out many more 88.5 items.
The vin on the frame has likely been altered or doesn't match the vin on the dash. Plus, the other comment about him selling another super low mileage Samurai....something is fishy.
I didn't see your edit above. Thanks. I will be talking with the seller about this.
Much appreciated.
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Will a rebuilt 1.6l 16v get better power than taking the 1.3 and adding a carb/header to it? I just want to make sure it can keep up with traffic on the highway and get out of its own way overall.
Lots more power and a very flat torque curve too, its also not all that much heavier than a 1.3 .
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So did you get it yet?
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It is en route to me now. I had to find a decent deal on a car moving service. I am pretty apprehensive about this considering the situation.
Basically, since I had already signed the purchase agreement and he already had the money, I couldn't back out of the deal. Not surprising, eh?
I will have to make the most of it when I get it. I am trying to give the seller the benefit of the doubt for now.
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Yup, they mentioned in the listing that they put a newer dash in it. Although I am not sure why...
Here is my take on this "86" samurai....
It has the later dash (88.5 and newer).
It has later axles.
It has later shift knobs.
It has the later anti sway bar.
It has newer style wheels.
It has a later wiring harness.
It has a later steering wheel.
It has later (87 and newer) door mirrors.
I do believe those are 86 style seats though.
I would also bet is has the later (88.5 and up) tranny and tcase. The later trannys have 3/8" (10mm) square drive drain and fill plugs. The early trannys use hex headed plugs. The later tcases use 14mm head bolts on the driveshafts and square drive drain and fill plugs. The early tcases use 12mm headed driveshaft bolts and have hex head drain and fill plugs.
One other thing you can check, since it doesn't show in any of the pics, is the number of rubber rear brake lines that come off the frame and go to the rear axle. An 86-88 samurai will have two; an 88.5 and later samurai will have one.
Now, this is all speculation on my part, but there are way too many "later" parts on this "86" samurai, for it to be an 86 samurai.
I would guess that he had an 86 samurai that wasn't in good shape and he had a later (88.5 and newer samurai) that was in very nice condition with title issues (or no title). He took the dash VIN plate off the 86 and put on the later samurai and is now selling the later samurai as an "86" samurai (VIN plate tampering/swapping is illegal to do). I would bet if you look at the frame VIN (it is located on the outside of the passengers side frame rail (a little ways in front of the front bumpstop mount), and compare it to the dash VIN, they will not match. Although, he could have swapped frames too....but very unlikely. Or he could have put all the parts (except for the seats) from a later samurai into/onto an 86 samurai (but I doubt it).
He could have went through all of this legally and as long as it is all documented and has been checked out by the Highway Patrol (or whoever oversees this type of thing in his state), then you have no worries. But it could also come back to bite you in the ass, if you ever go to sell it (but that is probably unlikely....since we are talking about a samurai....and who really looks that close at samurais?).
I'd say if the frame and dash VINs match, then you have no worries at all about it being a "pieced together" samurai. But if they don't, then it is up to you on whether or not you want to take your chances with owning a potentially "illegal" samurai.
Of course one other scenario could be that all of this was done before he bought it, so he has no knowledge of it. But it doesn't really matter. It would be about like someone selling stolen mechandise that they didn't know was stolen....they are still liable.
So if you want to get out of this deal, I would guess it would be pretty easy to do and he could even be convinced to reimburse you for the shipping expenses.
Also, a couple of thoughts on the 1.6 16V craigslist ad....
1.6 16V engines have 95 HP stock. So the seller is either trying to make the engine into something it is not, or is just misinformed.
If you decide to put a 16V in. I would leave it stock. There is really no need to bore it (unless it needs it). The gains will not be worth the cost. You are going from a 65HP carbed engine to a 95HP MPFI engine....it should work fine, in stock form. You could throw a header and exhaust on it, along with a better flowing air filter and you might notice a little bit of gain....but probably not enough to justify the $500 or so you'll spend on doing it, IMO.
If you decide to keep the samurai and want to regear it, for better driveability, you could swap in some 4.30 or 4.62 axle gears. I would say 4.30s, if you put in a 1.6 16V; and 4.62s, if you keep the 1.3.....if you are gonna keep 30"ish tires on it.
And as far as the tires go....those tires are gonna be loud and probably make it drive kinda squirrely. If you aren't gonna offroad much, then I would go with some that are not as aggressive. Different tires should be lighter (make acceleration and holding speed easier) and not be nearly as loud and should make it drive better.
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Thought I'd follow up here.
Once again, thanks for everyone's help. I will surely need more moving forward. ;D
So I got it. Here's the Cliff's notes...
After I saw the posts made here, I asked the seller for my deposit back since things were questionable. He basically told me to get screwed and if I didn't come and get it in seven days, he would put it in a parking lot and it would be my responsibility to get it out and pay the storage fees. Kinda hard to do when I am in Detroit and he is in California. I knew that I screwed myself.
It showed up...and other than the VIN issues (and a clear case of title jumping)...it is pretty much as it was stated in the eBay listing. I cannot find any rust on it. The frame is clean with no rust either. It starts right up, no smoke, no noise. Drives decent...although VERY VERY PAINFULLY slow...and wanders a bit. It does have some issues like there is some hardware missing from the dash (some bolts and such) but overall...not in bad shape at all!
I took it to my local off-road shop and had the dude look it over and he couldn't see anything really wrong with it mechanically. He said it was one of the cleanest if not THE cleanest Samurais he had ever seen.
So, even though there are issues with the VIN, it seems very solid. Since I plan to swap out the engine and more, mileage doesn't really matter I guess. I am stuck with it, that is for sure and I am going to make the best of it. I built a blog for it that will go into more detail of the story of how I royally screwed up when I bought it, plus will chronicle what I do to it from here on out. I just got started but if you want to check it out so far, it is at http://www.suzukalypse.com (http://www.suzukalypse.com).
Thanks again for everyone's advice! I'll definitely be asking questions and posting updates!
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Hopefully you will get the vin issues worked out. Some new tie rod ends might take care of that wondering issue, if they are older tires that will sometimes also cause a problem.
That is a really clean SJ though...