ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: GRVIT on April 04, 2004, 10:53:17 AM
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As I mentioned in another post,I want to make the axle rotation mod,as descibed in a Mike Hagen's article.When I find the appropriate F150 shocks for the rear and shock mounts also,I m planning to make longer custom rear trailing arms.I believe,that apart from the extra drop I ll get from the rear axle rotation mod and the (longer than Calmini shocks, I believe )F150 shocks,
longer rear trailing arms can give much more flex and stability.The question is ,the combination of
1.axle rotation mod and/
2.longer F150 shocks
3.Calmini springs
will work with longer rear trailing arms?
I believe I ll need longer shocks and springs.
I m planing to mount the one end of the trailing arms (the other mounts on the rear axle) approximately a bit behind the front seats axis.lets say at the middle of the chassis. (Sidekick SWB)
any thoughts about this ???
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The axel will only travel as far as the shock will let it.
The trail arm doesn’t make for longer travel unless you have a shock that will fully utilize it's swing. Then at that point you will probably need longer coils too.
On the Calmini setup the shocks are the limiting factor for rear end flex. I believe the reason why they don't send you longer shocks to utilize the coil length is because without rotating the rear axel the lower U-Joint would bind.
When you rotate the axel you solve this problem, which means you can run longer shocks.
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if you are looking for longer coils then a TJ Heep has 2in bigger coils in the FRONT of them than the rear of a tracker. they make all kinds of lifted lenghs to get a good fit.
stu
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As I mentioned in another post,I want to make the axle rotation mod,as descibed in a Mike Hagen's article.
Where can I find this article.
I am interested in more travel But I have afew concerns.
If you rotate the axle wouldn't you need to use a CV shaft due to the unequal angle of the U-joints.
If you extend the lower links then wouldn't you also need to extend the uppers to gain travel.
just a few things I don't fully understand...
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Here is the link.
http://www.zukiworld.com/month_100102/feature_hagans_rearrotate.htm
I think the U-joint angles stay equal to eachother, but at less of an angle.
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Here is the link.
[url]http://www.zukiworld.com/month_100102/feature_hagans_rearrotate.htm[/url]
I think the U-joint angles stay equal to eachother, but at less of an angle.
Reading the article and looking at the pictures I don't see how this is possiable.  The rear U-joint angle is now less because of the legnthened upper housing mount but the angle at the T-case looks unchanged.  This wold seem to create and unbalanced pattern and possiably cause drive line vibes. ???
I'll check it out closer when i install my GV coils later this week.  I might just try it anyway.  I could use all the room I can get in the fender wells.
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Mike Hagen, the guy who created this mod, said that he has performed the mod on many trakicks and he has yet to see driveline vibes.
I trust his word, so I'm gonna be rotating my rear axel as soon as I buy the new shocks.
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I saw Mike do some incrediable things in the quary at the Melt, So I don't doubt his word...  I'll give it a try.  Being a bolt on mod it is easily reversable if I decide it's not for me. ÂÂ
Well I guess it is bolt on until you cut and turn the coil buckets. I can just cut a wedge spacer for the base until I prove it out.
It's just this whole non leaf spring thing is gonna take some getting used to...
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It wont be hard to try and set back if you dont like it. The hardest part is grinding off the welds that hold the spring cup. Once you rotate it dont completely weld the cups, a few small welds will hold it good enough for a quick drive to see if you like it or not and you can weld a bolt off of the back af the axle to temp. hold the shock. When you find out that you like it or not easy to go back or complete the task ;)
Zig
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I saw Mike do some incrediable things in the quary at the Melt, So I don't doubt his word...  I'll give it a try.  Being a bolt on mod it is easily reversable if I decide it's not for me. ÂÂ
Well I guess it is bolt on until you cut and turn the coil buckets.  I can just cut a wedge spacer for the base until I prove it out.
It's just this whole non leaf spring thing is gonna take some getting used to...
ya my dad is having the same prob with the front end. he always sez that the front driveshaft is supost(sp) to move. he can't get it thew his head that it dosn't
stu
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Here is what you need to do. You need to over rotate the axil untill you get the right angles you want.
(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TQDyAoYY4dhKs0AHfo8sWw5Fl9kNYIqqcSjPrrb3RZqOqjhx3xvRlAlAoenFPr75!KhLmmjMZtXl6XwL1freFM*gaeOZeW!idWQHOBrU0jCc7Vbql3rR7w/Geometry.jpg?dc=4675467227345361421)
(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SwDdArQXaZvM3sQqeRmpEuxii8cfOEDwxHDCHRcrzVQoEd!2MD*wUFVSZXhsJiw9jLDbXb8zKsErShHk*lMFOpH0Au42z3qWXTZ8tSvaFGIXp7cslrFQ3A/angles.jpg?dc=4675467227342879885)
You can see it here.
(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SwAAAIAXkYxikik4MvN04lqVbJHBsyyhNt0DJAfhp3N3dizGrRSODMQET2rnYKslWP6Y7BO2EA4tx7qcPuRjpAyVIZjN!PV16LcD4JuJmtQQYGEJEbcSUA/4after.jpg?dc=4675467227340743536)
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Next, when you lengthen you lower control arm. Mount it in the same position that your drive shaft pivits at the trans.
This will keep the angle of the control arm the same of the drive shaft and help stabalize the rotation of the diff.
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Here is what you need to do.  You need to over rotate the axil untill you get the right angles you want.
([url]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TQDyAoYY4dhKs0AHfo8sWw5Fl9kNYIqqcSjPrrb3RZqOqjhx3xvRlAlAoenFPr75[/url]!KhLmmjMZtXl6XwL1freFM*gaeOZeW!idWQHOBrU0jCc7Vbql3rR7w/Geometry.jpg?dc=4675467227345361421)
([url]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SwDdArQXaZvM3sQqeRmpEuxii8cfOEDwxHDCHRcrzVQoEd[/url]!2MD*wUFVSZXhsJiw9jLDbXb8zKsErShHk*lMFOpH0Au42z3qWXTZ8tSvaFGIXp7cslrFQ3A/angles.jpg?dc=4675467227342879885)
You can see it here.
([url]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SwAAAIAXkYxikik4MvN04lqVbJHBsyyhNt0DJAfhp3N3dizGrRSODMQET2rnYKslWP6Y7BO2EA4tx7qcPuRjpAyVIZjN[/url]!PV16LcD4JuJmtQQYGEJEbcSUA/4after.jpg?dc=4675467227340743536)
Wow,  I just can't understand #2 being correct as all the drive shaft tech I've learned for Non CV D-shafts has been that the U-joints run in an eliptical pattern, accelerating and decelerating with every rotation,  the ideial angles have the t-case and rear axle U-joints accellerating and decellerating at opposite times to cancel each other out as in Pic #1.
Pic # 2 has them acceleratingand decellerating at the same time, running an identical pattern.  This should throw a nasty drive line vibe.
But I see your pic of it in place.  I will cut out the plate to try Hagen's mod, (Move upper link bracket one set of holes forward).  I understand that this might be necessary to keep the U-joint ear's from making contact at extreme drop.
  I still can't agree with the principal of the angles in pic #2.  It might work as a cheap fix to get away with some extra drop using a standard shaft but i can't see Hagen and others driving to Moab wheeling and driving home with this mod using these angles.  I'm guessing that they are running CV's.  Also I don't believe hagen is running a Kick rear, Somthing I rear said he'd changed it out due to premature failure on a regular basis.  If this is the case and he is running a 9" rear or other than I'm about sure is not running a stock Rear D-shaft.
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I met Mike 2 1/2 year ago and he still swairs by it.
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i think i said in the artical that he uses a yoke off a old Ford car. he had to redrill it or sothing but he made it fit his stock driveshaft.
stu
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He first did this mod when he still had his stock axil.
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the reason nobody ever talks about the number 2 pic
being correct is because (they don't want you to do it )if you try it on a leaf sprung vehicle axle wrap will kill your u-joint ,pinion seal and bearing or under severe acceleration shear off your pinion . i no because i had it set up this way on my small block powered landcruiser and spring -over with 38's every time i hit the gas my u-joint would bind so bad it finally sheard off my pinion .BUT I NEVER HAD DRIVELINE VIBE. it worked great in the city and on the highway .
you can do this mod on the sidekick because everything is held in place solid by the control arms you also don't need to lengthen control arms ,by rotating the axle the mount on the axle moves closer to the arm then the arm pushes the axle back. .giving more tire clearance .
anybody ever seen a tractor pulling a trailer (bailer) hooked up to the pto spinning around all over the feild they seldom wear out u-joint . they run some wild angles on their farm equipment .without any pto drive shaft vibe .