ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Beginner / Repair => Topic started by: djlantis57 on August 20, 2012, 02:43:10 PM
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Guys, I'm alive, don't worry...it's just been awhile, and been enjoying trouble-free miles out of the Tracker and been busy with other things...
What are the symptoms of the dreaded crankshaft key issue? I have heard of this many times so I did a search and I have been reading, reading, reading. Came up with a lot of posts and topics but all seem to have different answers ranging from a noticably loose/wobbly accessory pulley, to a rubbing timing belt cover, to dripping oil.
2 years ago (when I did clutch) I replaced rear main seal, distributor o-rings (and added RTV---no leaks), and completely removed and re-installed oil pan with fresh bead of RTV.
I had the front crank and cam seals replaced recently (I think about a year ago). It had gotten so bad before, that with the engine idling I actually had a quick, steady drip from the front of the engine. I am still wary of timing stuff to this day so I had my mechanic do this job. It solved the problem but there is still a slight bit of oil on the bottom end of the engine and around the lower front. It is NOT like it used to be with the bad crank seal, but just a bit of oil.
I do not know whether or not he removed the (5) pulley bolts or the one big bolt...but either way I need to look into this noise before it gets worse (if, indeed, it is the damn crank keyway issue). I have put probably 7,000 miles on it since the front seals' replacement.
The timing cover has always looked worn/warped. When investigating yesterday I noticed a bolt was missing---I added it and it tightened the cover up better.
I still have this noise---it sounds a bit like a very minor, hardly noticeable squeal/squeak. Seems to be coming from the crank pulley. It looked like the timing cover was up against it but when I put that bolt in, the noise was still there, I can notice it.
I removed the top two bolts of the timing cover and peeked in there---a slight oily residue on the timing belt.
See attached pictures. #1 is facing the front of the engine, looking down. #2 is from underneath/left side.
Before ack mentions it, NO i will not remove the main crank bolt! (this was a recurring topic in the older threads). It sounds like that is often the cause of this issue.
OTHER THAN tearing into it fully, is there ANY OTHER WAY to tell if this is the issue I am having?
Thanks in advance,
DJ
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You could try removing the fan belt and see if you have any wobble in the crank pulley by actually laying hands on it and trying to move it. Some of the more common symptoms include irratic idle, loss of power, crappy running. Put a timing light on it too and check for variations in the timing at idle.
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You could try removing the fan belt and see if you have any wobble in the crank pulley by actually laying hands on it and trying to move it. Some of the more common symptoms include irratic idle, loss of power, crappy running. Put a timing light on it too and check for variations in the timing at idle.
What bentparts sez!!
Although advanced keyway wear should be easily spotted watching the crank accessory pulley while the engine is at idle, removing the belts from the crank pulley and feeling for looseness is the best way to spot the problem early.
Before ack mentions it, NO i will not remove the main crank bolt! (this was a recurring topic in the older threads). It sounds like that is often the cause of this issue.
I can sense these posts like Luke senses "the Force"... I knew there was something odd about this one.
;D
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Even a mechanic can access the wrong info about crank bolt tightening from the factory manual. A crank holding tool has to be either bought or fabbed specifically for this application, and without it you cant get the bolt properly torqued.
As mentioned in the above posts, the best and only way to really check is to remove the belts and see if the pulley has play.
I had alot of noise from my timing setup, a new tensioner pulley fixed it, the old one had a ratchetty/whirring feel to it's bearings.
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Thanks guys. It sounds like there is some digging to do before coming to conclusion.
I do know that with the engine running I see no abnormal movement of the accessory pulley---only a smooth, consistent rotation. I have parked it yesterday and today and driving something else to work, may get to it tomorrow.
When I check---should there be ANY play whatsoever?
I can sense these posts like Luke senses "the Force"... I knew there was something odd about this one.
I kinda figured you would be chiming in here... :laugh:
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NO PLAY ! That thing should be bolted up solid. Sure your oil leak isn't from somewhere else? Oil has a remarkable way of traveling around on a moving vehicle.
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NO PLAY ! That thing should be bolted up solid. Sure your oil leak isn't from somewhere else? Oil has a remarkable way of traveling around on a moving vehicle.
Not SURE yet...we shall see...
Yep I know, but this is on the front of the engine...I don't do high-speed driving in reverse so it would be pretty difficult to be from anywhere else. Plus that appears to be where the noise is coming from.
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Once it goes bad you'll find that the ignition timing doesn't strobe up correctly any more and as it gets worse it starts to run flat under 3000rpm.
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WHEW. Okay, so it ended up being the crank key, and potentially the keyway as it was a ticking time bomb.
I took it to the shop because I just didn't have the time to try to start doing anything with it, as usual...
New cam front seal (that was the oil leak)
New woodruff key (GM part # 96051241, $20 for a bag of 10).
Timing belt was oil-soaked so replaced that too.
The crank key was noticeably worn, the keyway was OK, the tech put some of the Loctite 660 high heat stuff in there with the new key because there was some wear in the crank (although obviously not enough to require R&R of the crank and not enough to show some of the symptoms of more drastic wear as you guys were pointing out).
(4) pictures below of the old crank key. It was in noticeable shear.
On the road again, ready for hunting season.
Oh, and another new-to-me ride. Check out the sig 8)
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Sure looks like a offset key now, could have reversead it and had advanced the cam for more power. The key doesnt serve any function other than to set the timing, it isnt intended to retain the crank pulley. Make sure your mechanic was able to properly torque a NEW crank bolt, a special tool is required to hold the crank in place.
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Make sure your mechanic was able to properly torque a NEW crank bolt, a special tool is required to hold the crank in place.
BIG X2. make sure the mech torqued it to 94 ft/lbs per the '96 TSB!