ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Beginner / Repair => Topic started by: bbutler455 on October 05, 2012, 12:25:46 PM
-
The PO said he replaced the timing chain on my 86 Sammy, but the cover has cracks in it. Will a cracked TC cover leak oil? How had is it to remove and replace the cover? Sorry for the stupid questions; my repair manual is on order.
Brock
-
There's no timing chain on a Samurai, just a belt, so there's no oil - or there should be no oil - in the timing belt cover, so no issues with leaks.
The covers are not difficult to change - 4~5 bolts on the crank pulley (depending on the year) maybe another 8 or so around the edges - and there are available from Dorman, so your local auto parts chain should be able to get you one - or you can try Amazon.com - should be $30 or less.
One last thing - there's no such thing as a stupid question - there are stupid answers - we learn by asking questions, if the other folks who know give us good answers - would I be stupid because I didn't know if a small block chevy used a belt or a chain, bearing in mind that where I am, there are very few small block chevies? Lots of Suzukis, but very few bowties.
-
Unless you ordered a Factory service manual do yourself a huge favor and head over to acks faqs and get the proper manuals. haynes and Chiltons are only good to line the cats litter box with.
-
If you do have oil coming out of the cover, better get in there fast and replace cam or crank seal, whatever is leaking. Oil on timing belts isn't good and if it jumps time or breaks, it can have serious internal damage of valves and piston contacting themselves. Might also get yourself a chain wrench to hold water pump pulley while taking it off. Just becareful not to damage pulley whith teeth marks from chain wrench.
-
P.S. I had a oil leak on mine and the oil soaks into the cover gasket, which then causes it to swell up and forces the cover into the crankshaft pulley. Then the cover gets chewed up from the crank pulley. I bought a new cover from Low Range Offroad, it also comes with a new gasket to go around cover.
-
If you do have oil coming out of the cover, better get in there fast and replace cam or crank seal, whatever is leaking. Oil on timing belts isn't good and if it jumps time or breaks, it can have serious internal damage of valves and piston contacting themselves. Might also get yourself a chain wrench to hold water pump pulley while taking it off. Just becareful not to damage pulley whith teeth marks from chain wrench.
Samurai engines are 8 valve and non interference, so there's no threat of imminent self destruction, and I'm a little puzzled about the "chain wrench" for the water pump pulley. Isn't that held on with four bolts - I've never needed more than a 10mm wrench.
-
I have a feeling he is reffering to using the chain wrench to hold the crank pulley in order to remove the crank bolt :o
Please buy or fabricate a proper crank holding tool.
ps: the pistons and valves will always be in contact with themselves, they are comprised of solid matter,,,,but they shouldnt contact each other.
-
Ehhhh - but there's no need to touch the crank bolt to change the timing belt cover either - a 10mm wrench is all you need there too.
-
I don't know where you get that idea/info but everything I have found says that Samurai's 1.3L is a interferrence engine: http://www.automotix.net/autorepair/suzuki-samurai-engine_repair_guide-1867.html (http://www.automotix.net/autorepair/suzuki-samurai-engine_repair_guide-1867.html)
I guess if you want to take the chance, be my guest
The the picture I included is a Vise grip chain wrench, when removing the fan belt, it is sometimes difficult to hold spinning pulley in place while attempting to remove four nuts from pulley, this tool makes it easier to hold pulley in place while removing the nuts.
-
Ok, I did some more digging and found other places it does say it is a "non-interference engine" :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_G_engine
Either way, I think we may all agree on that it's not worth gambling with.
-
Ehhhh - but there's no need to touch the crank bolt to change the timing belt cover either - a 10mm wrench is all you need there too.
Sorry meant pulley bolts like mentioned above, LOL,,,,even that wouldnt work on a crank bolt, LOL
I wouldnt use one, just use the old belt and a pair of standard visegrips to hold the pulley, it works perfectly without any possible chance of damaging the pulley and eating up belts in the future.
-
I don't know where you get that idea/info but everything I have found says that Samurai's 1.3L is a interferrence engine: [url]http://www.automotix.net/autorepair/suzuki-samurai-engine_repair_guide-1867.html[/url] ([url]http://www.automotix.net/autorepair/suzuki-samurai-engine_repair_guide-1867.html[/url])
I guess if you want to take the chance, be my guest
The the picture I included is a Vise grip chain wrench, when removing the fan belt, it is sometimes difficult to hold spinning pulley in place while attempting to remove four nuts from pulley, this tool makes it easier to hold pulley in place while removing the nuts.
Ok, I did some more digging and found other places it does say it is a "non-interference engine" :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_G_engine
Either way, I think we may all agree on that it's not worth gambling with.
Just so that you're aware ...
1 - I have - as you put it - taken the chance/gambled with it. I knowingly left a cracked, oil soaked timing belt on a Suzuki G13 engine until the crank pulley stripped the teeth off of it. I KNOW it IS a NON-interference engine, I knew it before it stripped the belt, I knew it after.
2 - My source of information is the Suzuki FSM - not some questionable website I found on the internet.
3 -A word of advice - don't believe everything you read on the internet and especially, don't believe what you read on Wikipedia. Wikipedia is a "wiki" - it's created by users, for users, and anyone can put what they wish, with no regard for accuracy and no verification of the source - sounds incredible? Go ahead, Google it. look it up in Wikipedia - :laugh: - if you believe what Wikipedia says.
Oh - the water pump pulley - I KNOW you don't need to remove it to change the timing belt, so I KNOW you don't need to remove it to change a cracked timing belt cover.
-
Oh - the water pump pulley - I KNOW you don't need to remove it to change the timing belt, so I KNOW you don't need to remove it to change a cracked timing belt cover.
Umm, the water pump pulley does have to come off, to get the timing belt cover off. The pulley sits right against the timing cover. And isn't one of the bolts that hold the timing cover on, right behind the water pump pulley?
For the radiator fan/water pump pulley nuts, simply loosen them before you remove/loosen the belts. I have never had to use any type of holder to keep the water pump pulley from spinning, when loosening the nuts....and I have taken off a lot of fan/pulley nuts. At most, I have to use one hand to push on the water pump pulley, to create a little extra resistance, so the nuts will break loose.
-
My point I am trying to get across is, I found two places that say two different things. Rather then trying to guess who is right, replace the belt when called for. Gambling like fordem, leaves you stuck out in the middle of know where. Taking a risk on a rubber belt that is past due is just stupid. It doesn't make you any better of a mechanic if you void changing it "just to see how far it goes", to me that just laziness. My wife, my three year kid, and I are usually up in the mountains driving around alone. I'm not taking the risk. I'll change the fing belt on time to make sure I get our a$$ home safely.
You can grab whatever tool you want but the fact is...THE PULLEY HAS TO COME OFF. WIKI that
And fordem...people like you is why they had to label engines interference or non-interference. Can't read a maintance guide so you have to act all redneck and drive it till the wheels fall off. Lucky there are a lot of you out there, or I'd go broke.
-
It is not gambling to run the 8v zuki engines untill the belt breaks, at least as far as touching valves to pistons,,,and as long as it is a stock cam.
If you only use FACTORY information then there is zero debate over a stock 8v being interferrance fit engine or not! So dont spend a moment trying to decide if Haynes, Chiltons or other sources are viable, they are not, use the factory service manuals ONLY!!!
-
I'm going to ignore that redneck remark, and ask you instead - what is the recommended timing belt replacement interval, and also where are you finding that recommendation - because the FSM does not have one.
Sky - you're right - the water pump pulley is against the timing belt cover and has to be removed, my son was out with the car last night so I was going from memory.
-
I use alldatapro, under 60k it requires replacing the timing belt in normal and severe operating conditions. If unfamiliar with alldata it is a photo copy of FSM and factory maintaince guides. Most brand new cars come with a maintaince guide "hints where they tell you how often to change your oil," I am NOT familair if Suzukis came with it in the glove box when you first purchase the vehicle or not but they have to offer a maintaince guide somewhere. Have you seen any other place it recommends it?
P.s. I do apologize about the redneck comment, I do not know you and have no grounds in defining you.
-
And most PO keep or throw away owners manual and maint. guides.
-
So this is pretty funny. When I got to work, I headed for my Autodata Timing belt book 06Edition: In all Samurai and Sidekick years it states that the 1.3L is a interference engine with most likely cause of piston/valve contact. I wasn't convinced and went to the back of the book to read it's disclaimers. In fine print |removethispart|@ the bottome of the page, it reads: "Although the information contained within this volume has been obtained from sources generally thought to be reliable, no warranty can be made as to its accuracy or completeness, nor is any responsibility assumed by Autodata Publications Inc. Piece of shit, I paid good money from Matco for this info.
Anyways, I called Suzuki Tech Hotline and the dude told me it IS NOT INTEFERENCE or freewheeling, whatever you want to call it. Though I replace my t-belt on time, I do not have any experience in running it till it breaks and finding out the hard way, I choose to error on the caution side. My zuk means more to me then most other things and I will not risk anything. The only explination I can think of is most places I gathered my info was more then likely connected to some sort of parts company, in hopes of making a extra buck of someone! I do apologize for any misleading info/headache I may have caused.