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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: explosivo on March 29, 2004, 12:15:14 PM

Title: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: explosivo on March 29, 2004, 12:15:14 PM
As the title states, 4WD in the snow in reverse is a very bad combination... I broke the passenger side differential mount. Fucking third time that I had it offroad and the front end broke. I mean, I knew that the front end was a weak point, but the third time I had it offroad... damn...

Pictures as soon as I pull it out... and I'll pull it as soon as I get new parts...
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: Mike71 on March 29, 2004, 01:28:28 PM
well u gota remember the car isnt really brand new now..most of these things have some prety tuff miles on it

i dont know what part ur talking about though...i can asusme but i dont know for sure..but im guessing maybe it was rusty...

besides now just replace it with a stronger one if u can and itl be all good =)
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: explosivo on March 29, 2004, 01:34:18 PM
It was the actual mount on the differential... meaning that I need a new housing (as far as i can tell). But fortunately I have word on a Tracker with a blown engine/rusty body for a couple hundred... gonna look into it tomorrow. Might have the mighty Trackery up and running sooner than I though :D
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: wildgoody on March 29, 2004, 04:11:47 PM
Get the new housing, take it to a welder
that can do Aluminum, sometimes called
Heli-Arc, and have the hollow space in between
the bolt holes welded solid, now tap and install
steel threaded inserts, these are sometimes
called Heli-Coil (No I don't work for the Heli Co.)

LOL I don't even know if they are from the same
Co.

Now when you install the new housing, make sure
you use Loc-Tite, the blue Medium strength should
be fine, and torque those bolts to about 35-40 Ft Lbs
with lock washers, you sould not have any more trouble.

The reason these break is the bolts get loose, and the
housing twists the bolts and breaks the holes out.

You could also get the old housing welded up, and then
give it the same treatment as a new one, you just will
have to re drill the broken hole then tap and steel thread it.

Good Luck

Wild

Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: Kreg on March 29, 2004, 04:12:11 PM
Ya the ear on the front diff carrier broke on me too a few weeks back.

I still need to replace it. I'm going through 4x4 withdrawls.  :'(
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: explosivo on March 29, 2004, 04:18:36 PM
I'll have to try that out. I think I'll pick up that parts Tracker and use the front diff out of that, then do what you recommended to the old one and keep it around for spare. Once the other one does the same thing, I'll throw the old one back in and do the same to the other housing :)

Thanks for the tip, Wildgoody.
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: HotRod on March 29, 2004, 04:28:03 PM
Why not go with the GV?
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: explosivo on March 29, 2004, 04:37:34 PM
Can I just take a GV housing and transfer all of the internals from the Tracker front into it? Or do I have to dick around with getting a bunch of different parts from a bunch of different vehicles and frankenstiening it together?
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: wildgoody on March 29, 2004, 04:39:14 PM
I would take a GV housing in a heart beat,
it's the best solution, but when you got to
go Mod on the Cheap you learn how to make
better what the Zuke Engineers should have done.

I also think the Aluminum 3rd member is built
stupid witht he mounting ear drilled with 3 holes in it,
2 for bolts and 1 between those going into the mount
at 90* from the other 2 to weaken the whole thing  :(

I have yet to figure how to fix this as there is not
much room to get a TIG welder into the little hole.

I Might just have to use the MIG and pre heat the
whole housing to fill it all in and re drill the holes for
a more solid mount.

Jeez I should be a engineering consultant for Suzuki.

 ;D

Wild
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: wildgoody on March 29, 2004, 04:40:24 PM
Quote
Can I just take a GV housing and transfer all of the internals from the Tracker front into it? Or do I have to dick around with getting a bunch of different parts from a bunch of different vehicles and frankenstiening it together?



GV is a steel bolt in replacement, and is the Tits way to go.
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: explosivo on March 29, 2004, 04:47:37 PM
How much do you figure that a junkyard would charge for a GV housing?
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: wildgoody on March 29, 2004, 04:49:22 PM
If you can find one, $150-200 but that's just a guess.
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: explosivo on March 29, 2004, 04:52:18 PM
What gears to GV's come with? 5.12's like Trackers?

Also, If I can get the $200 parts truck, I think I might just go that direction, since it'd be a simple bolt right in deal... the GV front might have to wait until I get more monies... I dunno right now...
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: Kreg on March 29, 2004, 04:59:54 PM
I'm pretty sure you have to swap your tracker gears into the GV housing because the GV gears are different.

I want to get a GV housing too, but they are hard to come by and the dealer wants $320 for one.

Mac hooked me up with a good deal on one, but I have to wait for it to fall through, which may take a while. So I'm going to go grab another Aluminum housing for the time being.  

This time I'm going to beef it up a bit since we mainly work with aluminum at my uncles shop we can weld it up easy.  And I'm also going to run the steel belt over the housing so it doesn’t hop anymore.
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: explosivo on March 29, 2004, 05:07:09 PM
You seem to be in the same boat as me, Kreg. I think I'm just gonna do the same and get the parts truck and put in the aluminum diff and beaf up the mounts...
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: wildgoody on March 29, 2004, 05:10:04 PM
I think GV gears are 4.30s, I remember reading
that they were taller than the rest.
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: explosivo on March 29, 2004, 05:11:53 PM
Is swapping out internals stuff that a mechanical newbie should be trying in the first place? One thing I want to avoid is paying someone else to do work on my truck...
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: Mike71 on March 29, 2004, 05:14:29 PM
i think ( from reading and looking) its one of those things that u will need instructions (FSM) and time..alot of time because the first time u do it u will muttle through it..then after that itl take 10 mins lol
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: wildgoody on March 29, 2004, 05:16:42 PM
As long as you just drop out the 3rd member
and put it into the new housing, you should be
fine, the long drivers side axle needs a slide hammer
or pry it out (tough) the Pass side pops out with a big
flat screw driver, be carefull of the seal, it's a surface
type and seals against the back of the CV cup.

If the new axle has the same gears, don't mess with
it, just put it in.
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: explosivo on March 29, 2004, 05:16:52 PM
That's about what I figured... for me to learn how to do it I'd need detailed instructions and lots of pictures/illustrations. ;D
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: explosivo on March 29, 2004, 05:18:51 PM
Quote
If the new axle has the same gears, don't mess with
it, just put it in.

That's my intent in going with another stock aluminum differential. If I was going to swap gears, I'd be looking for a GV front end instead. I'm just trying to cut back downtime/work involved with the swap.
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: wildgoody on March 29, 2004, 05:22:54 PM
 ;D I need parts too, I got to score either
a long side 22 spline or a pair of 26 spline
axles before I take off for Moab in a week  :o
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: 90Stomper on March 30, 2004, 12:39:29 PM
hey, is there a certian years of GVs that match up?  Explosive, before you get ready to do this im me and i will try to scan the pages out of my manual if that will help you ;)  or goto the dealer and ask for an exploded view print out, might help you muddly through faster ;D
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: explosivo on March 30, 2004, 12:45:13 PM
I've decided to go the easier/cheaper way and am buying a parts truck to nab the front diff out of just for a straight swap :)
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: Mike71 on March 30, 2004, 01:00:45 PM
to bad it wassent running..u could "rally" it where u did that car  ;D lol
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: explosivo on March 30, 2004, 01:08:29 PM
Well, if all goes well, with a bit of tinkering, I could have the other tracker running... I'd just need the new front axel since that's the first thing I'm taking off it ;D
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: lil_Truck on March 31, 2004, 04:36:34 AM
Another way the housing brakes in reverse is by the axil twisting.

Going forward, the 3rd member is rotated down and is supported by the front cross over.  When you are in reverse, the 3rd member is rotating up and pulling on 3rd member and it's rubber mount.  The twisting helps to brake that other mount.

Like someone said earlier, put a steel strap over the "noise" of the third member to hold it down to the front cross over.

This is what I have done and havent broken one yet.  broke a lot of axils lately but no housings.
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: Kreg on March 31, 2004, 05:18:22 AM
Well I searched a bunch of wreckers yesterday for another aluminum housings but only one guy had one, and he wanted over $200 for it (with the gears)

For that kind of money I might as well buy a steel housing from the dealership.

Anyhow, what I'm gonna do is pull my third and make a new ear out of solid stock aluminum, then weld it on.

Then I'm gonna run the steel belt over the carrier and see if she holds up.
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: explosivo on March 31, 2004, 08:47:13 AM
I had planned on doing the strip of metal over the third member as soon as I install the new differential... Just seems like a really good idea now.
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: Somer on March 31, 2004, 11:02:23 AM
On my V6 that mount had four holes...I haven't broken an axle yet, but then again maybe its because I don't have a chance to go wheelin too much.  

I'm not a 100% sure if it will fit or not, but I'm pretty sure that it will.  May be  next time you're out in a scrap yard take a look under a Sport model.
(http://www.angelfire.com/trek/4x4gravel/project/project/10.jpg)
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: explosivo on March 31, 2004, 11:40:08 AM
My 91 Tracker only has three holes on the passenger side mount... What vehicle is that? Sidekick?
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: Kreg on March 31, 2004, 02:01:11 PM
I think Somer said it was a "Sidekick sport" housing.

New to me too.
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: explosivo on March 31, 2004, 02:18:14 PM
Why the hell would they change something like that on a "sport" model? ???
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: wildgoody on March 31, 2004, 03:13:58 PM
Maybe they thought about more rough
use out of a sport model ???

And they break too easy
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: explosivo on March 31, 2004, 03:26:59 PM
Unless it's the driver's side mount, which is 4 bolt on all Trackicks...  :-/
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: Kreg on March 31, 2004, 04:11:31 PM
Somer is from the UK right?

Their driver seat is opposite from ours.  Is their diff config backwards too?  Because if he sits in the right seat to drive, the slip in CV shaft would be his driverside shaft. (Opposite form ours)  Unless they made backwards housings for the Sidekicks in the UK. ???
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: wildgoody on March 31, 2004, 04:20:19 PM
No, same, use right and left to
avoid any confusion tho.
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: Somer on March 31, 2004, 04:28:00 PM
Quote
Unless it's the driver's side mount, which is 4 bolt on all Trackicks...  :-/


I'm from Japan, so the drivers seat is on the opposite side of the U.S., but the axle is still the same.  The picture that I posted earlier is from the side as the U.S. passenger side.


Here's a picture of the mount on the opposite side (U.S. driver's side)
(http://www.angelfire.com/trek/4x4gravel/project/project/09.jpg)
Title: Re: so reverse + snow + 4wd = bad things
Post by: Kreg on March 31, 2004, 04:40:36 PM
Cool.

Thanks for clearing that up bud.