ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Performance / Modify => Topic started by: RJkick on June 01, 2015, 08:44:54 AM
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I think the kit is a great investment if you are tired of the struts, which work well. I had broken 4 in the last few years and each time my fun was done along with the strut.
With the kit I broke a shock and no problem just kept going with no issues.
I am currently working with Calmini and they let me know the shocks sent were a little larger in diameter than they wanted so after they work it out with the manufacturer they are going to send me the narrower shocks. Pretty cool and communication has been good with them as well.
Calmini even sent me the shock spec so I could pick up some junkyard shocks in the mean time. 11" compressed and 18" extended - I found the 1995 Ford Aerostar stock shocks were close enough. It was 50% day as well so I picked them up for $5 each. KYB's since the others were Monroe and looked maybe an inch larger diameter.
More to follow
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what is happening with the EDSES forum before? somene deleted it? :P
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I got the word today that Calmini is standing behind the kit. They had a shock diameter issue with the kit I purchased so after speaking with them and being patient until they were able to sort it out.
I am being shipped a new set of shocks that will alleviate the shock hitting the upper a-arm issue.
A big thanks to Calmini for stepping up and working with me
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I liked yuri's idea of the bigger shock mounted to the lower arm lol.
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I have this kit & am installing it right now. But it seems my steering shaft is hitting the bracket for the drivers side upper control arm. Did you run into this issue?
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I did run into that issue. Since the shaft is oblong. I used a grinder on the bracket to make the necessary clearance for the stock shaft.
Out of curiosity do you have a 4 door?
I haven't heard of anyone with the 2 door having this issue or they just didn't say anything
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Would be great if Calmini do something to put coilover's, like this in the picture...
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I have this kit & am installing it right now. But it seems my steering shaft is hitting the bracket for the drivers side upper control arm. Did you run into this issue?
I didn't have any issue with that either.... although it is close
My story is here: http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/build-diaries-how-to-diy/oceanside-tracker-36969/ (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/build-diaries-how-to-diy/oceanside-tracker-36969/)
video of it in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37uA8nAWm_A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37uA8nAWm_A)
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I have a 94 that is a 2 door rag top. Other than the steering bracket issue. It is an awsome kit I think. I like how it looks. Built like a tank. I did have to buy new bolts for strut tower though. All 6 were 1/2" too short.
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I think because I don't have a body lift, that is probably most of my issue. But I will grind the bracket down to clear it. I had to get a new lower shaft from trail tough. And I had to get wheel spacers
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I like the kit as well
Truesuv -Do you have the crumple steering shaft or the straight shaft?
I'm trying to mod a straight shaft for mine since I have the oblong crumple shaft which is why it hit the bracket at full turn. It was fine as long as I was going straight
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Truesuv -Do you have the crumple steering shaft or the straight shaft? ...
I don't know... I have this
(http://www.smugmug.com/photos/i-dmbbnMM/0/XL/i-dmbbnMM-XL.jpg)
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regarding the steering shaft hitting the bracket.... I would agree that if I didn't have the 2.5" body lift, my steering shaft would have hit as well...
it barely cleared WITH the lift
(http://www.smugmug.com/photos/i-nSQm58c/0/XL/i-nSQm58c-XL.jpg)
(http://www.smugmug.com/photos/i-pcZzKmJ/0/XL/i-pcZzKmJ-XL.jpg)
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I'll try post a pic of mine when the new shaft comes in. But I can't install until back from honeymoon on July 2. I ground a bunch off.
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Would be great if Calmini do something to put coilover's, like this in the picture...
You have to understand what this kit is. It's bolt on and has to work around that stuff that is there already. The strut tower and top coil spring retainer are part of the frame and would have to be cut off. The front axle is right there in the middle of the control arm as well so the coil over cant just sit where it is in this picture.
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Ever looked at a Toyota Hilux? If you haven't try google images or maybe take a peek under a Tacoma, it should be similar - it's all about the choice of shock and where it attaches to the LCA - and rather than cut off the strut mount, use that to mount the top of the coil over, which has already been done by Kreator in his kit, and I don't recall him cutting the spring seat off of the frame.
I'm not impressed with Calmini's execution, especially with regard to the amount of rework that everyone seems to need to do with this "bolt on" kit, but I will give them kudos for thinking outside of the box.
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I really like the kit. It's built like a brick S house. I think if you put the lift, body lift & the EDSES then it is 100% bolt in. I opted not to do body lift so I ground the bracket. But it will work just fine. The kit has beefier parts than I've seen on 1 ton trucks. I have not had off road yet as I'm now doing a 2.0 conversion from trail tough. But after that it's gonna get some "testing" 😎
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According to Calmini's website, the only "prerequisite" for this kit is the 3" "super articulation system, so I would expect it to be "100% bolt on" without a body lift.
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I think it will really boil down to your lower steering shaft. My stock one was bent from hitting a deer a couple years ago. So I got a new (used) one from trail tough. My stock one was an accordion style & new one is straight shaft with 2 u joints & a lot smaller so I don't need to grind anymore. It is a good kit. Maybe just needs some tweeking to make sure it fits all variations of these little trucks. I still think Mike Hagens Orange truck is the ultimate IFS set up for these things. That guy makes amazing stuff
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I liked the price point and a little extra work is expected for me. I don't think anything has gone on without some extra time and energy. My choices keep changing so I keep getting farther away from the original design
I have broken 3 OME struts so if the kit stops me from breaking a $$ strut I am happy
I did run this kit with only the passenger side shock still attached so I like not having to "Gerry rig" a strut to get off the trail.
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after few mods...It's really work !
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I just found this :)
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Yuri, it looks like your running two shocks on each side , is this correct? and why?
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If you have no body lift & accordion style lower steering shaft, you have to grind upper a arm bracket on driver side. If you have solid metal one like what I got from TT. It will fit with no grinding.
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Yuri, it looks like your running two shocks on each side , is this correct? and why?
Yes, two shock for each side. The shock that came with the EDSES kit, too soft, event without any load in front. I got tubing bumper and winch ...about 50 kg extra in front. That's why I put another adjustable shock which the pressure of the shock was already calculate with the weight of my car.
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For those wanting to put this kit on. It's pretty straight forward. I didn't even take my half shafts out. Left them on the knuckle. I even left ball joint on and took the 3 bolts off, took spring out with compressor then took lower control arm off. The hard part was drilling holes for upper control arm. I used a uni bit then a carbide burr to open holes until the bracket fit. I really like this kit. Not so much on shocks, but the kit is awesome.
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There are a few guys here with the kit. If anyone has install questions feel free to shoot a pm. Be happy to answer any questions. I am really glad I got it. I plan to get an anvil when they are available again.
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not too bad for IFS with EDSES kit plus
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Looks good
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
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Looks familiar
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
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So my question is, anyone who HAS completed the Calmini upper arm kit install actually driven it on the street ? Like open road, hwy, freeway ? The 2 kits I assisted with were scary on the open road to say the least. Now to be fair, both the Suzuki's I know who received the installed & DROVE them were some of the first made. ( Although we were assured 40 kits had been sold with no problems or complains ). Without any possible way to align the wheels after kit was installed, I'm just curious what modifications (we know something needed to be done) were successful to allow Camber & Caster corrections of any kind. Thanx
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you can drive mine... I'm in Oceanside! I have the alignment good, camber looks correct, drives straight. It is fine off road, main benefit I guess is just knowing it is more durable than struts. On road... well yes it is definitely more twitchy on the highway... I had the same tires before installing the kit and I didn't have any of the scary snap reactions to the steering wheel I have now. Note: I don't have the front sway bar anymore. It is not a daily driver for me and if it was I would not be happy.... I do have a Detroit type rear locker that only makes it worse. I can't say it is fun to drive on the road, it isn't.
I have no idea what the caster currently is (or what it was with the struts) and it is not adjustable...
I like the kit, sorry this sounds so negative... it could be my setup not helping the situation:
- I did the alignment myself, Toe with a tape measure, 4' level for the Camber, I adjusted it till the steering wheel was straight, and adjusted the Camber until it didn't pull left or right. Caster not adjustable.
- I replaced the tie rods and center link (old ones were wobbly) which helped but still twitchy
- no front sway bar
- 235/85 16 tires (approx 32" tall)
- 2" spacers in the front (4" backspacing on wheels) to create 2" total backspacing
- lock-rite rear locker
- loose nut behind the wheel... :P
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I use mine as a daily driver 2 weeks a month. The kit had some "non-bolt on" issues but after alignment, SoCalSupertrucks in San Bernardino, ca, I have no complaints.
I still have the sway bar and the only thing I have noticed is that it wobbles some times but nothing that would stop me from driving it and if I change speeds it goes away. Could be the road I take since it is the same way to work most days. With the struts it did the same thing but I try to pay more attention to things after the kit so I can see how much difference it makes with the EDSE kit
Not much difference on my 4 door but as I stated before I don't know if anyone else has installed on a 4 door
I already blew a shock and still ran so I like the fact that I can keep going which was the reason I bought the kit. 4 times blown struts stopped my weekend. I would rather drive than be a passenger most of the time
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Any idea how much wheel travel the EDSE front suspension would have if you cycled the suspension with out the spring in place
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Well gang, I am joining the EDSE club. I took advantage of the sale last weekend. I was in Moab UT in July and blew out an OME strut and strut hat on a trail called Fins and Things. The strut failed after coming off the rock in the second picture. I had to put on a stock strut to get it back on the road and home but the strut was topped out even with a new strut hat installed upside down. I have been trying to decide what to do next. Options were to replace the OME struts with new OME stuts for around $400 or the Calmini EDSE for $700. The Calmini 10% off sale was the deciding factor. So I hope this all goes well and I am looking forward not having to deal with the struts anymore.
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Something for the better must now be offered with the latest EDSE Calmini kits as the 2 I worked with had absolutely no way to make a Camber or Caster adjustment. Yes the adjustable toe is still there so YES, That helps but that was it.. Is it possible the few of you who have installed the kit & state you had it aligned post a picture/description of what was adjusted on this kit to correct Camber/Caster?
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Is it possible the few of you who have installed the kit & state you had it aligned post a picture/description of what was adjusted on this kit to correct Camber/Caster?
Here is how the Camber is adjusted... there is a slot in this arm.. you loosen the bolt and turn it to change the camber (note the Cam washer) and tighten the bolt.
The Castor is not adjustable
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Nice. Glad to see that it's now standard with the kit. Caster could be guessed prior to drilling a arm mount holes to some degree and that should do it. Thanx for the picture.
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not too bad for IFS with EDSES (orange) vs Rigid Axle (green)
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I took my Zuk out to Johnson valley and I am having the shock issue where the upper arm is hitting the shock on up and down travel. I'll try to get some pictures so everyone can see. I know Yuri has a 4 door but he also has a Toyota front end. Does anyone else with a 4 door have the edse kit?
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I took my Zuk out to Johnson valley and I am having the shock issue where the upper arm is hitting the shock on up and down travel. I'll try to get some pictures so everyone can see. I know Yuri has a 4 door but he also has a Toyota front end. Does anyone else with a 4 door have the edse kit?
me too...
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My dents are closer together and near the new upper arm pivot point. At first I thought maybe it was down travel but with 2 spots it has to be both up and down travel. Maybe a stiffer shock. I did figure out a 1995 Ford Aerostar rear sometimes used a Bilstein so I may try that. They have a smaller diameter so that may help as well.
Any thoughts? I'm game for trying to find a fix
Whoops are my downfall but they are so fun. If money were no object I would go coil-over
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Passenger side
You can't really see the bottom dent but I assure you it is there on both driver and passenger sides
Maybe this weekend I can maneuver it to get a better picture
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My dents are closer together and near the new upper arm pivot point. At first I thought maybe it was down travel but with 2 spots it has to be both up and down travel...
yours looks the same as mine to me (the lower dent) which occurs under compression. The upper dent occurs under compression as well when the top of the shock pops through the top of the strut tower I think.
I thought I read that someone talked to Calmini about this, and they agreed it was an issue and sent them some "skinny" replacement shocks.... I haven't had time to call Calmini about this.
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Yep, that would be me and this is the smaller diameter shock and it is doing the same thing just not as big a dent. Ideas so far are to grind off the "strength" gusset at the top of the new upper arm, find an even skinnier shock, or maybe change the mounting location of the upper arm which would require more work than I want to do right now. I'll keep posting and maybe one day one of us will stumble upon a better fix
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rjkick
In reply #42 you said that if money were not an issue you would go coilovers.
Would there be room for a coilover inside the EDSES upper A-arm if you trimmed the upper spring perch off the chassis and welded tabs to the lower A-arm and used the current upper shock mount for the coilover upper mount?
I do not have the EDSES kit yet.
I am considering getting the EDSES to see if I can turn it into a coilover suspension.
I would like to hear what ideas you have to make this happen before I order the EDSES.
Thanks
Herman
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It can be done but rather than doing the extra work it may be easier to order a Strut Coil over kit from Kreator. I didn't think I would have the rub and thought Calmini had fixed it with the smaller diameter shock. I haven't had a chance to look deeper into the issue yet.
If possible have upper A-Arms fabbed and cut out the strut tower to mount the Coil Over
I have a 4 door and had to re-drill the mounting holes for the inner a-arm mount. I like the kit but be aware you may run into issues. I also have 4.5" of lift with different springs than Calmini so I expected a slight issue but nothing near what I had. Earlier posts show where I had to re-drill. The 2 brackets weren't even symetrical which was really odd.
After I have a better look at it I will probably go with a stiffer shock as well
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Yep, that would be me and this is the smaller diameter shock and it is doing the same thing just not as big a dent. Ideas so far are to grind off the "strength" gusset at the top of the new upper arm, find an even skinnier shock, or maybe change the mounting location of the upper arm which would require more work than I want to do right now. I'll keep posting and maybe one day one of us will stumble upon a better fix
I know that you bought a Kit that should work. But, have you looked to see if that stiffner brace on top of the upper A-arm could be moved outboard and create more space? I would hate going to smaller shocks, as they can overheat easier. (Just a thought from looking at your photos.)
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I know that you bought a Kit that should work. But, have you looked to see if that stiffner brace on top of the upper A-arm could be moved outboard and create more space? I would hate going to smaller shocks, as they can overheat easier. (Just a thought from looking at your photos.)
I have yet to get my EDSE to work correctly. I bought it is September and now we are in December. I am trying to get Calmini tech support to help. I have sent several emails with pictures and lots of phone calls. Even when told was I would get a call back, I repeatedly never got a call back ever. Never got an email back from tech support. I have been holding my tongue because I believe my problem can be worked out because it is a problem no one else has reported.
With all that being said, the one thing that is never mentioned with the kit by people here on the forum or by Calmini is you are going to have to use a wheel spacer. I hate wheel spacers and had my rig set up with 32s and no spacers. 16x8" wheels with 4" backspacing. To my surprise I had to buy 1 1/2" wheel spacers to adjust the camber. Course this was after buying 1" spacers thinking that would be enough. (Anyone need 1" spacers?) So when Brd HNTR put out the idea of moving the upper A-arm out, sure it could be moved out but that would increase the size of the wheel spacer by how much you moved the a-arm out or new wheels to compensate.
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No I am not suggesting suggesting moving the A-arm out. What I suggested was to move the brace welded on top of the A-arm outward. from the photo, it looks like that is what is impacting the shock. If it was the impact point I would cut it down, but I figure Calmini put it there for strength, so moving it outward would be better solution.
I do not believed most of us non EDSE users are aware of the 1 1/2" spacer requirement.
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skitime
I am interested in your 1" wheel spacers. 541 404 6464 Oregon
I need them for the back and avoid using them up front since they change the steering scrub geometry.
I assume you used front wheel spacers to make the EDSES work.
rjkick
Were you implying to buy the Kreator front suspension and use as is and not go with the EDSES or combine Kreators with the EDSES?
Where I am going with this is that I recently installed the Kreator front suspension and planned from the beginning to use the Kreator pieces to eventually come up with a double A-arm front suspension.
I used Kreators 2.5" longer A-arms(than stock) for several reasons( the longer Vitara or XL-7 front axles bolt right in).
Longer A-arms give more wheel travel at the same CV joint angle, do not need to use wheel spacers to keep the tires from rubbing the frame with 31" tires and you do not lose steering angle with 31" tires.
I am using stock wheels and 31" x 10:50 BFG All Terrains.
This would probably also apply to 33" tires which I will try next.
The only reason I want an EDSES kit is for the piece that bolts in place of the strut that adjusts camber and the upper A-arm bolts to.
I assume since my lower A-arms are 2.5 " longer the EDSES upper A-arm will be too short.
Calmini will not sell me those pieces alone.
If anyone bails on their EDSES kit I would be interested.
The owner of Calmini told me the EDSES kit gives 7.5" of front wheel travel.
The long A-arm Kreator kit gives just under 10" of front wheel travel (which requires a differential drop kit to reduce CV angle) and works very well in comparison to a Trail Tough $700 - 2.5" lift kit.
I would be curious how well the EDSES suspension works.
rjkick seems to have a great time with his EDSES on the whoops at Johnson Valley which says a lot.
There is more to suspension than wheel travel numbers.
It is all about shock dampening and rebound.
A good example would be the BMW Mini's in the Dakar race.
They probably have half the wheel travel of Robby Gordon's desert style truck and they are overall faster.
So how does the EDSES suspension work in comparison to the strutted Calmini suspension it replaces?
Does it work significantly better or is it mainly a piece of mind that you are no longer relying on a strut that fails often?
Calmini says the EDSES improves bump steer and the camber gain is better than a strut.
Please share your experience before I spend more money or should I forget the double A-arm and just be happy with the Kreator kit I have?
Thanks
Herman
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... With all that being said, the one thing that is never mentioned with the kit by people here on the forum or by Calmini is you are going to have to use a wheel spacer...
the website has a page on recommended tires and wheel sizes and does recommend a wheel backspacing of 2" to 2.75"
http://calmini.com/tire-size.php (http://calmini.com/tire-size.php)
My wheels have 4" backspacing but I already had 2" spacers which I am using, so the tires clear the upper a-arm by about an inch
kit installed ok for me, looks cool, and working good so far. considering the number of parts included in the kit it didn't seem that expensive to me. I never broke a strut but it does appear that is one of the main benefits.
my story is here:
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/build-diaries-how-to-diy/oceanside-tracker/ (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/build-diaries-how-to-diy/oceanside-tracker/)
video too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37uA8nAWm_A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37uA8nAWm_A)
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I was thinking of removing the "strength" gusset and relocating it outward I just need to coordinate with my cousin who welds and fabs for me - always wants to go SAS but I'm not there yet
I was suggesting to use Kreator instead of Calmini EDSE kit.
If the site hadn't lost the data you could have seen Yuri do exactly what you want to do. He has a Toyota front end and the piece you are talking about was too short so he had to fab a longer one
Perhaps Yuri, tchajalgos, or another fabricator can help you with just that piece. The issue then is which would be more economical - buy the kit for the 1 piece or having it fabricated
I was breaking struts which was my main reason for the kit.
The shock dents aren't that big of a deal as long as I can find the '95 ish Ford Aerostar rear shocks at the local pick a part for $5 to $10 They have a small diameter and are stiffer - KYB Gas-o-matics
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16 days of jungle terrain :)
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looking forward to your Pics
Update for the shocks on the EDSE kit - with the smaller diameter shocks I was able to flip them upside down. I'll report back after my first trip. Hopefully this eliminates my shock dent issue otherwise I may have to get dome fab done
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Update for the shocks on the EDSE kit - with the smaller diameter shocks I was able to flip them upside down.
Are they monotube or twintube? I don't think the twin tube shocks work too well when you flip them.
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I know ( a hand full) of people have installed Calmini's EDSE kit. Still I'm curious who out there has figured out a way to get the alignment correct. I'm talking about ability to drive it as normally intended on the street with normal tire wear,& the driver isn't required to fight it to stay in the middle of his lane. Yes, im sure it is drivable off road but getting there & back has been more than one buyers issue. The kit has been out for some time now so either Calmini changed it from how it was originally sold or fabricators are cutting & reworking it. Camber/Caster/toe. Love to hear/see a update to the EDSE install from someone who successfully installed one. Thanx
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it works just fine...on and off road ....even better..has no problem with camber or caster, and it's extremely well performed :)
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the only different is...the link...The Picture ..short link is the first edition of edses.. doesn't work...then calmini upgrade with the longer one..never try it . Mine ..is longer than the Calmini has...
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Yuri
Will you explain the suspension geometry improvements that were gained by building a link that is even longer than Calmini's 2nd generation longer link.
Do you mind explaining how you went about fabricating the longer link.
Did you modify the Calmini link?
I like the Orange color.
Curious what the story is behind all the vehicles being the same color.
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I tested the flipped shock and unfortunately I blew out the driver's side shock.
The rear shocks of a '95 Ford Aerostar seem to work best so far
Most likely am going to grind the middle of the upper arm gusset to see if I can get rid of the issue
More to follow
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Anyone with updates on the Kit
Mine is working really well with the exception of the shocks
Still trying to find a long lasting "desert running" shock
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Trying ProComp 9000