ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: tusong200 on June 15, 2015, 07:10:03 AM
-
Hi guys, new here. Was over on the Suzuki Forums Sidekick forum for many years (3 Sidekicks over the years.) Abandoned ship over there several years ago.
Sorry about the 'lost data' problems here.......Anyway.....
Just picked up a very straight, no rust, '87 Samurai. Had it shipped from Pueblo CO (5,000 ft. altitude) to Northern IL (800 ft. altitude). Started it up, took it for a spin and lots of pinging. Retarded the timing and pinging goes away, but I'm way retarded on the timing marks, about 0 degrees TDC. I'm assuming that I need to mess with the carb as well to adjust to the extreme change in altitude. I'm assuming I may be very lean. Any recommendations?? I'm a total novice as regards the stock carburetor. Where do I start??
Also, my plan is to switch out the stock carb for a manual choke Weber sometime before the winter. (I'm not a rock-crawler so I don't mind the 30 degree 'tilting' problem.) I'm hoping I can pretty much toss anything related to the ECM at that point. Please tell me if I am wrong about that.
Thanks!!
-
The Samurai actually has an altimeter in the engine compartment. It is the small cylinder-shaped sensor, just right to the battery. This sensor along with the ECM helps to adjust the mixture based on the altitude.
(http://image.fourwheeler.com/f/38368491+w600+re0/1111or-03%2Boff-road-the-worst-4x4s-ever%2Bsuzuki-samurai-engine)
FYI, I experienced a similar problem several years ago when I flat towed a Samurai from Tulsa, OK (636 feet) to Gunnison, CO (7,700 ft). Basically, the reverse of your situation. In a nutshell, the Samurai ran extremely rich at the higher elevation. However, after about an hour of driving it around, it started to run a lot better. I believe that the abrupt change in elevation without the vehicle in actual operation created a little hiccup. So my advice is to make sure all of your sensors are present and plugged in. Then I would just drive it around, and get the cobwebs out.
-
Very interesting...I've driven it about a week or so (200 miles??) so I'll reset the timing and see what happens. Thanks!!
-
I've never owned a Sammy, but I keep learning really interesting little tidbits about them. That altimeter sensor is definitely one of them. I still think Suzuki's engineering was FAR ahead of their time.
-
The correct name is "barometric pressure sensor" and they were only used on the 90 & later models - they are also not that uncommon - most vehicles with any sort of electronic fuelling control will have one.
-
Fordem,
These altimeters aka "barometric pressure sensors" were also on 1986-1989 US-market Samurais as shown on the engine compartment picture.
-
Do Trackicks have them as well fordem?
-
I believe they do, most EFI systems do - I'll check the parts catalog in the morning and confirm - would have been known as the MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor.
Although the MAP sensor is intended to measure the pressure (or actually vacuum - lack of pressure) in the manifold so that the load on the engine can be estimated, the ECU will determine atmospheric pressure (and therefore altitude), from the MAP when the EFI system powers up, before the engine is started.
Edit...
Yes, the Trackkicks do - the TBI systems used on the 8v engines have a sensor very similar to that used on the Samurais, (which, by the way, the parts manual does not show as a cylindrical canister), the MPI systems used on the 16v engines have the MAP sensor on the manifold.
-
So, generally speaking, if I were to drive from here (at around a 750' above sea level) west to the Rocky mountains and drive up Pikes Peak, my engine would adjust for the differences in the atmospheric pressure, and not seriously degrade performance like a carburated engine at extreme heights?
-
You might have to switch off and back on for it to recalibrate itself, and I believe there will be some loss of performance at higher altitudes - how much might depend on your idea of extreme heights. Go high enough, and the only way to compensate might be forced induction.
-
I'm thinking somewhere around 9,000-10,000 would be the highest you could drive in North America and still have a road/trail to follow.
-
According to Wikipedia, the Pikes Peak track goes up to 14110 ft. I really have no idea how much of a power loss you can expect.
If you're curious, google Suzuki altitude record - a couple of guys took a Samurai to 21,000+ feet - up a volcano in Chile.
-
I've driven and ridden up Pikes Peak to the top a few times and the power loss is substantial and quite noticeable.
-
I've driven and ridden up Pikes Peak to the top a few times and the power loss is substantial and quite noticeable.
At that altitude I can imagine! The oxygen density reduction at that elevation is considerable. A small reduction in the already limited power produced by our small engines would be significant. Lower gears would come in handy. I know I can now feel the elevation affects on my body at 3,000+ feet elevation now far more than when I was a bit younger. My heart rate increase is more significant because of the reduced oxygen exchange capacity.
-
My heart rate increase is more significant because of the reduced oxygen exchange capacity.
I like your terminology - would that be the same as reduced lung capacity?
I was diagnosed with that just about 10 years back, I'd been aware of the symptoms for close on 25 years, but to me that was just what was normal for my body, I was also told that some loss of capacity will occur with aging, so I guess in another 20 years I'll have none left :o
Ain't old age a b!tch?
-
Yes it is! I still feel the need to exercise, but my energy levels aren't nearly what they used to be and hiking some small "hills" in the Smoky Mountains brought it home to me.
-
I'm thinking somewhere around 9,000-10,000 would be the highest you could drive in North America and still have a road/trail to follow.
FWIW, Last year, I piloted a Samurai with the stock, Hitachi carbureted 1300cc engine over Black Bear Pass. Black Bear Pass is 12,840 feet, and many of the mountain trail passes in Colorado have similar elevations. Once I was above 11,000 feet I had to perform the gas, clutch, and handbrake shuffle. That really made it interesting on the first section down, aka The Steps. >:D The key was to keep my foot on the gas, but the 5:1 gears and 29" tires enabled me to crawl at a snail's pace. I'm sure that the engine output was likely less than 20hp at that elevation, but the engine kept chugging along. 8) Once I descended back to around 11,000 ft, the engine idled fine.
Next week I plan to pilot a Samurai with the 16-valve 1600 FI engine up Pike's Peak. I'm sure that there will be a huge power loss at 14,000 feet, but it should idle as the FI will be able to compensate for the thin air better than a carburetor with a feedback loop. I will report back my experience.
-
You guys are funny, there ought to be a way to " like " a post.
-
Hey Jonny, Scott and I will be doing trails in Colorado next week. It would be good to see you again. Not sure what areas you are planning this year but we will be in the Leadville area on the July 4th weekend. We plan to move around to different areas and be in the Silverton area around July 19th.
-
Dave,
We will be doing a mixture of camping/hotel lodging around the Woodland Park/Colorado Springs area. The plan is to run the trails around the Pike National Forest Area.
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/zukiworld-zukfari/colorado-pike-national-forest-29-june-4-july-2015/ (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/zukiworld-zukfari/colorado-pike-national-forest-29-june-4-july-2015/)
-
I have no idea where the photo above came from? :D
Anyways, I drove my 16-valve Samurai up Pikes Peak today. I couldn't really go fast as the road contained tight switchbacks, and the speed limit was 10-25mph. However, once I was at the 14,000 foot top, I blipped the throttle a few times. I noted that the throttle response was quite good. It was quite the contrast from my experience with the carb engine, which would not idle at 12,000 ft.
-
The photo is just a random file association that has been occurring since "THE" data base crash. None of the pics randomly posting in my comments have been from my files, so they are getting picked up from else where. Several people have experienced them, including me. They are always surprising, although they are at least Suzuki related. At least I haven't come across any porn yet.
You can edit your post and remove the pic.
-
The photo is just a random file association that has been occurring since "THE" data base crash. None of the pics randomly posting in my comments have been from my files, so they are getting picked up from else where. Several people have experienced them, including me. They are always surprising, although they are at least Suzuki related. At least I haven't come across any porn yet.
You can edit your post and remove the pic.
Some of the stripped down and built up Zuk's are more stimulating that the pop-up porn I have encountered. (Another sign of "Old Age" "creeping" up.
-
I'm with ya there! :angel: