ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: hcgalvin on February 16, 2004, 01:38:33 AM
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Fabbing up the mounts and stuff...
We threw the idea around a lot of going sprung under in the front.. it would make it so the truck sat lower, but, it was going to be hard to keep the diff from rubbing on the bottom of the motor! We would have had to make some big bumpstops, and would have had to limit the flex. Oh well... We went with sprung over.
(http://www.whitepineclub.com/members/kd7hcg/pictures/SAS/sasday3/DCP_5232.jpg)
(http://www.whitepineclub.com/members/kd7hcg/pictures/SAS/sasday3/DCP_5233.jpg)
Tall!:
(http://www.whitepineclub.com/members/kd7hcg/pictures/SAS/sasday3/DCP_5237.jpg)
Front Hitch:
(http://www.whitepineclub.com/members/kd7hcg/pictures/SAS/sasday3/DCP_5242.jpg)
Comparison between cougar and zuk:
(http://www.whitepineclub.com/members/kd7hcg/pictures/SAS/sasday3/DCP_5244.jpg)
We took a break on Sunday.
;)
Heather
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Anybody need these? Wanna buy em? *grin*
(http://www.whitepineclub.com/members/kd7hcg/pictures/SAS/sasday2/DCP_5221.jpg)
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Looks great!!!! :o
Check your PM ;)
Zig
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Looks great!!!!  :o
Check your PM ;)
Zig
Zig quit trying to scam Heather out of those parts - its too late Ive already tried-lol ;D ;)
Later,
Bill
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Those parts ARE available. It's the 2 inch suspension lift that isn't anymore...
*grin*
Zig is in line first for THESE tho...
;)
EDIT: Apparently Zig doesn't need them... so, anyone interested, drop me a PM, post here, or IM me at GalvinLuv on AIM and Wishous on Yahoo.
Heather
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Zig quit trying to scam Heather out of those parts - its too late Ive already tried-lol  ;D ;)
Later,
Bill
Your turn Bill. Get them while you still can ;)
Zig
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Wow, your gonna need a ladder to get into that thing Heather!
Looks sweet. 8)
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Wow the hood and your shoulder are at the same hight!
How much Tall are you heather???
Fredo
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:o WOW IS THAT LOOKING TALL.......MAN I'M STARTING TO DROOL AGAIN.......MATTY ;D
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Heather is about 5'5". (I think)
But the best way to get a feel for it's height is that the frame is 24" from the ground and the front wheel well opening is 49" from the ground. (stock is ~31" I believe).
Additional lift comes from the 3" body lift, and since they are 33" tires it becomes about a 3" tire lift. So we are figuring that it will be about a 12" suspension lift.
It should settle ~2-3 inches lower then what is pictured *cross fingers* when it's all said and done.
(Currently fabricating spring over steering by using modified Mercedes 400 series arms, fab'ing up bump stops, and reinforcing the frame)
Hopefully by the end of this next weekend, we'll have it on the ground and rolling.
~Nate
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yep, it will settle down abit cause in my brothers ranger, right after we installed the lift in nthe back it sat real hihg in the back and about 2 weeks it settled down almost level
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Very cool, Heather!
I can hardly wait to see it wheel.
Jake Palmberg
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ok, now i'm really thinking about this. the 15-35R15s would clear great.
Stu
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Heather you gotta start smiling in these pics!
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Heather, you says this:
We threw the idea around a lot of going sprung under in the front.. it would make it so the truck sat lower, but, it was going to be hard to keep the diff from rubbing on the bottom of the motor! We would have had to make some big bumpstops, and would have had to limit the flex. Oh well... We went with sprung over.
Just remove the body-lift!!!
You have enough suspension!
Fredo
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Niiiiice.
I've just recently (last weekend) scored a Widetrack Sierra/Samurai axle to try and fit under my Vitara/Sidekick. Been tossing it up for a while and just found one at the right price.
Due to the unfortunate laws in Queensland Australia, any conversion to spring over from spring under is illegal.
I'm looking at keeping spring under but only running my existing 31"s for the immediate future, as bigger than stock tyres is also illegal but there are only so many sacrifices you can make :D
How much clearance were you looking at with the sump as SPUA?
Given the very limited upwards travel of a Vitara IFS with 2" spring lift, was it going to be more limited than that?
Have you moved the axle forward at all or would this not provide extra clearance?
Please let me know.
Thanks,
Andrew
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Damn man. Laws suck in Australia.
I think anything over 50" tires are Illegal to ride on the street in Canada. And the cops say you can't have any more than 6" of lift but they don't really enforce it because I've talked to so many guys driving around with 8"- 12" of lift and they have never been bothered.
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Yeah, I know.
See... we also raised the gas tank. So, with the way we raised it, (cut off the old stuff)... we will have to raise the floor in the back of the truck 3 inches... or somehow custom fab brackets to lower it back down.
We are still tossing that around, don't get me wrong.
Just might not be done before Moab.
Heather
Heather, you says this:
We threw the idea around a lot of going sprung under in the front.. it would make it so the truck sat lower, but, it was going to be hard to keep the diff from rubbing on the bottom of the motor! We would have had to make some big bumpstops, and would have had to limit the flex. Oh well... We went with sprung over.
Just remove the body-lift!!!
You have enough suspension!
Fredo
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awesome buildup mate, keep the pics coming, they're great for inspiration ;) ;D
i live in the same city in australia as suzuki viagra, and like he stated, the vehicle modification laws suck here.
i've managed to squeeze 32's onto mine, but they do rub, so i really need to extend the wheelbase, and get rid of the crappy ifs
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Niiiiice.
I've just recently (last weekend) scored a Widetrack Sierra/Samurai axle to try and fit under my Vitara/Sidekick. Been tossing it up for a while and just found one at the right price.
Due to the unfortunate laws in Queensland Australia, any conversion to spring over from spring under is illegal.
I'm looking at keeping spring under but only running my existing 31"s for the immediate future, as bigger than stock tyres is also illegal but there are only so many sacrifices you can make :D
How much clearance were you looking at with the sump as SPUA?
Given the very limited upwards travel of a Vitara IFS with 2" spring lift, was it going to be more limited than that?
Have you moved the axle forward at all or would this not provide extra clearance?
Please let me know.
Thanks,
Andrew
I'm sorry to rain on your parade, but I'm the one that built the front axle under Heather's truck. The problem with your idea of using the widetrack Sierra front end is about 5" too narrow! The front axle that was built is 5 1/2" wider than the Sierra/ Sammy front. If you can't do a spring under to spring over swap, then what are the laws of going from coil/ independent to leaf spring??
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I'm sorry to rain on your parade, but I'm the one that built the front axle under Heather's truck. The problem with your idea of using the widetrack Sierra front end is about 5" too narrow! The front axle that was built is 5 1/2" wider than the Sierra/ Sammy front. If you can't do a spring under to spring over swap, then what are the laws of going from coil/ independent to leaf spring??
Coil to leaf is fine... the method of suspension is not the issue....
Someone just decided here in our transport department that SPOA conversions were dangerous..... (ignoring cars like Hiluxes who have been SPOA from the factory for years in the process).
QLD is the only state in Australia with this law to my knowledge.
Yeah I realise it is narrower, but there's about 3" rim offset to take into it so overall the slight reduction of width will be worth the extra travel. As a last resort there's also wheel spacers (also illegal but what the heck).
Currently my biggest trail stability problem is although the rear has about 14" travel each side the front has virtually none, so the whole cabin follows the motion of the front.
If it's too much of a problem then I will probably ditch the axles for Nissan Patrol MQ or Toyota Hilux ones.
Consider the Samurai axle an intermediate stage chosen for it's simplicity.
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Currently my biggest trail stability problem is although the rear has about 14" travel each side the front has virtually none, so the whole cabin follows the motion of the front.
I don't understand, Virtually none ??? you must need to change
somthing, I have plenty travel in the front, and find the IFS rides
smoother over the rough stuff than the sammys I followed on the
last rocky trail I went on. (read small boulders) ;D
less rocking around and better ride, what have you done to your
front suspension ??? or not done might be more accurate ???
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All Ive got to say is hell will freeze over before my rig gets a solid axle swap. If your rear is flexing before the front then something in your design is wrong. Look at my homepage and look at my rti pics. Front and rear I get almost the same RTI score. I love my IFS.
Mike
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Just to make sure nobody is misunderstanding me in the above post... I do like to see the SAS's and the different way they are being done. I dont think IFS is for everybody. There is more than one way to build a rig. Thats why we all build them different. I am enjoying seeing the progress on Heathers rig. I also think the Calmini prototype is really trick, but I like my IFS. I get a little touchy when I see people beating down the "crappy" IFS. I dont care for most IFS systems but the Trackick IFS works. If it doesnt work then something isnt setup right. Thats all Im saying.
Mike
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Hey Heather just on another note.. where did you get you tail lights from. As all the online webpages that i have seen for those sorts of lights the do not mention the sidekick/trackker/vitara/escuda....
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She bought them from a vendor on ebay. By the way, I like the pic of your lwb on your header! I own one that was built in Spain. Where were the Aussie versions built, do you know?
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it was built in japan and imported in to australia. I am still deciding whether to do a V8 rover engine and suspension conversion or toyo axle and spring over with 1600 supercharge engine (4agze).... and this is going to happen in the next 3 to 4 months.
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Mike, I totally agree with you. I LOVED my IFS... and it was hard to see it go. I enjoyed high speed stints across the desert, and some of the air that I got. I also loved zipping around town and around corners with it. That I will miss.
We mainly are going with the SAS for the height, and the flexibility. (sometimes I still look back and wonder why.. but, I think it will all work out in the end)
And I can't wait to see it wheel. Driving it will be a whole different ballgame. ::)
We will be working on it more this weekend. More pics to come soon.
:)
Heather
Just to make sure nobody is misunderstanding me in the above post... I do like to see the SAS's and the different way they are being done. I dont think IFS is for everybody. There is more than one way to build a rig. Thats why we all build them different. I am enjoying seeing the progress on Heathers rig. I also think the Calmini prototype is really trick, but I like my IFS. I get a little touchy when I see people beating down the "crappy" IFS. I dont care for most IFS systems but the Trackick IFS works. If it doesnt work then something isnt setup right. Thats all Im saying.
Mike
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Hey Heather just on another note.. where did you get you tail lights from. As all the online webpages that i have seen for those sorts of lights the do not mention the sidekick/trackker/vitara/escuda....
Yah, bought them on ebay. There always seems to be one out there.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33716&item=2461863718
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I don't understand, Virtually none ??? you must need to change
somthing, I have plenty travel in the front, and find the IFS rides
smoother over the rough stuff than the sammys I followed on the
last rocky trail I went on. (read small boulders) ;D
less rocking around and better ride, what have you done to your
front suspension ??? or not done might be more accurate ???
Ironman struts, strut tower flip and 2" spring lift (kings springs). Also 1 1/4" body lift, 31" muddies on F100 15x8 rims.
There is a little bit of travel there but not much... nothing compared to the rear travel.
To be brutally honest there never will be anywhere near as much travel at the front, but a SAS will make a lot more than an IFS will ever achieve.
If I can get half as much travel as I have at the back I would be tripling what I have at the front.
(http://nbs4x4club.no-ip.org/images/AAAA0048.JPG)
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To be brutally honest there never will be anywhere near as much travel at the front, but a SAS will make a lot more than an IFS will ever achieve.
.
([url]http://nbs4x4club.no-ip.org/images/AAAA0048.JPG[/url])
UNLESS YOUR MIKE OR ZIG ;D THEY SEEM TO BE TWEAKING THE HELL OUT OF THERE RIGS AND TROUNCING THE COMPETITION ;)
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Sounds like the problem might be the king springs. ??? Coils have to have the right spring rate not only to lift but to flex also. Plus, a properly weighted Calmini 3 inch is pretty impressive right out of the box.
BTW Heather, Hows it comming? ???
Mike
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Spring rate???? Take the spring out of the equation. An A-arm given it's length (tracker) can only move so far.
However a properly set up sas can flex beyond what the steering links can even handle. Hence the need for Hydrolic steering :o
Jake Palmberg
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Ironman struts, strut tower flip and 2" spring lift (kings springs). Also 1 1/4" body lift, 31" muddies on F100 15x8 rims.
*EDIT*
If I can get half as much travel as I have at the back I would be tripling what I have at the front.
Jake, this is what I was responding to. There is no way Im getting even close to double the flex out of the rear as I am out of the front. Tripple? That front cant be moving right. I would like longer struts than my current OMEs for the front but Im sure someday someone will come out with some. :-/ It's no secret that I think flex is highly overrated for most offroading. Stability and durability are way too often overlooked. I will gladly carry a tire 3 feet off the ground as long as the rig feels stable. Thats what lockers are for. Another thing to keep in mind is some of us like "Baja" type driving. IFS is undeniably the best for this. My goal in a rig is to be able to be in the front of the pack in whatever terrain Im in. Rocks, snow, mud, baja, sand, jumping, trails, all while keeping it reliable and stabile enough to drive down the interstate on the way home. I dont even own a trailer... I dont need one.
Now dont get me wrong, I have nothing against SAS. IFS is not for everyone. However I get irritated when I hear the comments about how "crappy" Trackick IFS is. Anybody that has run with our club in the last two years knows that is debateable. We have several very trick IFS rigs in our club. We run trail rides at our events and constantly whoop ass on most straight axle rigs. Now I dont run around talking about how "crappy" straight axle rigs are. I like the fact that everybody builds their rigs differently... we are all different! I just dont feel I made a crappy choice, thats all.
Sorry for the severe thread hijack Heather. :-[
Mike
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Jake, this is what I was responding to. There is no way Im getting even close to double the flex out of the rear as I am out of the front. Tripple? That front cant be moving right. I would like longer struts than my current OMEs for the front but Im sure someday someone will come out with some. :-/ It's no secret that I think flex is highly overrated for most offroading. Stability and durability are way too often overlooked. I will gladly carry a tire 3 feet off the ground as long as the rig feels stable. Thats what lockers are for. Another thing to keep in mind is some of us like "Baja" type driving. IFS is undeniably the best for this. My goal in a rig is to be able to be in the front of the pack in whatever terrain Im in. Rocks, snow, mud, baja, sand, jumping, trails, all while keeping it reliable and stabile enough to drive down the interstate on the way home. I dont even own a trailer... I dont need one.
Now dont get me wrong, I have nothing against SAS. IFS is not for everyone. However I get irritated when I hear the comments about how "crappy" Trackick IFS is. Anybody that has run with our club in the last two years knows that is debateable.  We have several very trick IFS rigs in our club. We run trail rides at our events and constantly whoop ass on most straight axle rigs. Now I dont run around talking about how "crappy" straight axle rigs are. I like the fact that everybody builds their rigs differently... we are all different! I just dont feel I made a crappy choice, thats all.
Sorry for the severe thread hijack Heather. :-[Mike
As far as durability the vitara front has been good... I guess the limited front flex has had its benefits - no major breakages.
I believe the Kings springs are at least half the problem, as I recognise they are too stiff for the light weight of the soft-top, but now being on my 3rd set of alternative springs and they've all been as crap as each other I'll be SAS'ing it.
The extra travel is the tertiary benefit and the main game is to make the vehicle more stable so the movement of the front doesnt cause so much cab tilt.... a secondary benefit of allowing a sierra lockright in a tougher axle (we all know the vitara alloy case is weak) so both of these rate higher than "poser value" flex.
At present with the guys I run with (including Nissan Patrol, Jeeps and Sami's - all of which are Solid Axle) I still have probably the most capable rig, but then I also have the only locked rear diff too.
The one guy who has a better Sami/Sierra (twin Airlockers and Rockhopper on 30"s) rolls his too much to consider his to be better :)
The IFS isn't as "crap" as people make it out to be, but in the end the amount of travel before CV binding is definately a limiting factor.
I'd say that the wider track of the Vitara (as opposed to the Sami) compensates for the IFS at least half the time...... but then I've had the car teetering on two wheels far too many times already  :o
Although it never has gone for a lie down yet  :D
It's not the IFS per se, it's the design of IFS used and the alloy manufacture.... I got MORE suspension travel and about 4 times the power out of my 240Z IRS and that was not even supposed to have mega flex... just mega grip on road. longer driveshafts and a shorter diff housing made for much better shaft angles.
If the CV shafts were longer and the housing shorter, then there wouldn't be so many issues with breakages or travel.....
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If the CV shafts were longer and the housing shorter, then there wouldn't be so many issues with breakages or travel.....
::)
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::)
Mike, I detect a note of sarcasm there!
It'll be fun to see how Heather's rig does at Moab! We'll probably all be riding together, as well as camping together. Oh, and this is my first trip to Moab, since I got the Anvil and ARB's, so it'll be a discovery experience for me, too!
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:P :o :P
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Mike, I detect a note of sarcasm there!
Nope. This is the look I had for
::) Hmmmm, I like that Idea... ;D
Mike
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OK... I have a little secret. ::) Thats what this look is really for. ;D Ive been running a prototype center mounted 7.5 Calmini anvil housing. ;D So far so good. I have not had any real problems so far.
On the subject of breaking CVs because of angle and such is not entirely true. These stock CVs are way underbuilt.
Mike
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Good to see someone else hasame idea and approched it in a similar way