ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: idaholwb on January 30, 2004, 05:48:37 PM
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I'm thinking about making wide zuki axles for the trackers and kicks. I want to know how much interest there is for this.
It would be a budget price deal with no suspension. There would be only the front axle housing, shafts, diff, and brakes and hubs. I'm planning on different options like small or large diff, 22 or 26 spline, crossover or full spring over steering.
I'm testing the market to see how much interest there is before I start making them in very much volume.
I'm bulding one for Heather's 4dr kick, and I already built one for my lwb sammy to match the kick rear that I have in the truck. Both are the large diff version with 26 spline.
Another option will be to have the birfs done with the Longfield treatment.
Let me know if there is any demand for this.
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prices?
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and just to say, i am vary interested in only the front axle.
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Me too. ;D ;D ;D
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would the diff be steel, locked, geared? just some ?
Stu
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Hmm....nice to see there actually is more than just a slight interest in these.
The diff will be either the sammy, front or rear, or the kick rear. So to answer the question of steel or? The answer is steel, duh.
The gears are going to depend on what your needs are. And that will be a variable that won't be able to be answered until individual orders are placed. I will be able to supply 4.62s, 4.88s, 5.12s, possibly 4.10s and 4.30s. As far as 5.83s, 5.62s, and 5.38s you will have to supply the gears. The setup will be done by Trailtough for the sammy small diff versions and the 5.83s for the large diff will have to be setup by them as well.
The base price with the small diff 22 spline with crossover steering will be about $1000. Add $100 for spring over steering. Add $250 for 26 spline. Add $100 for the large diff. Shock mounts will be included, but not welded on for mounting options. The loaded version with an open diff and common ratio, spoa steering, 26 spline large diff, will cost you $1450. The shafts are chro-moly from OTT Industies in B.C. The only other options would be Longfields for about $250, that will help with strength for a locker, and of coarse either a lockrite, Calmini lsd, or ARB.
Any other questions, just ask.
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Another point about this front end, it is rebuilt. New trunion and wheel bearings and seals.
Also, I can make it for slightly wider than sammy stock, 2" for people that want more width and a little more strength.
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very interested
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hey jake, i have seen your tracker all over the place on the web, nice rig. i think i left a message on your car domain site once.
Stu
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Just for comparison of axle manu's using the Suzuki hardware as much as possible, take a look at
1 - http://www.spidertrax.com/drivetrain_sdw.htm.
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That is a great comparison. $1700 for a frontend with no steering, hubs, spindles, or brakes.
I'm talking about getting a frontend for much less that has all necessary parts for you to put suspension on it and put it in your truck. I'm sure there are people out here that have the money to shell out for the "other brands", but there are more looking for a cheaper alternative to put under their kicks. That is what I'm trying to touch on.
I can make a version similar to the Big Suzana or the Sidewinder, but, the cost of the specialty pieces involved is stupid if you break something.
The only pieces that are special to my front end is the housing and inner shafts (which are high quality chromoly...much stronger than o.e. by far!). The knuckles and everything else is easy to find.
Also, Spidertrax, for example, doesn't use a lot of off the shelf Suzuki stuff on the front axle. The hub and brake assembly is not included and uses an adaptor and special short shaft to be able to use the zuk stuff. Also the inner shaft is?? Special to Spidertrax.
My front end uses all sammy stuff with the exception of the inner shafts, tie rod, and housing. All rebuildables are stock Suzuki stuff. Tie rod ends, trunion bearings, wheel bearings, seals, birfields, everything!
By the look of things, Jagular, you look as if you are going to go that route sometime soon from what I can gather from your webshots pics. The reason that I'm doing this front end is to be reasonably priced for the "masses" to be able to go SAS where otherwise they would only be able to dream about it because it was at least $500 to far out of reach.
I'm not knocking the other front ends on the market, I'm just providing a more economical front option.
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SOUNDS GOOD IDAHOLWB WISH I ONLY HAD MORE CASH TO DUMP INTO IT RIGHT NOW :'(.......BUT ITS NICE TO KNOW THERE'S GONNA BE A CHEAPER OPTION OUT THERE....IF I WANNA DO THIS LATER......MATTY D. 8)
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Hmm....nice to see there actually is more than just a slight interest in these.
The diff will be either the sammy, front or rear, or the kick rear. So to answer the question of steel or? The answer is steel, duh.
The gears are going to depend on what your needs are. And that will be a variable that won't be able to be answered until individual orders are placed. I will be able to supply 4.62s, 4.88s, 5.12s, possibly 4.10s and 4.30s. As far as 5.83s, 5.62s, and 5.38s you will have to supply the gears. The setup will be done by Trailtough for the sammy small diff versions and the 5.83s for the large diff will have to be setup by them as well.
The base price with the small diff 22 spline with crossover steering will be about $1000. Add $100 for spring over steering. Add $250 for 26 spline. Add $100 for the large diff. Shock mounts will be included, but not welded on for mounting options. The loaded version with an open diff and common ratio, spoa steering, 26 spline large diff, will cost you $1450. The shafts are chro-moly from OTT Industies in B.C. The only other options would be Longfields for about $250, that will help with strength for a locker, and of coarse either a lockrite, Calmini lsd, or ARB.
Any other questions, just ask.
Would this work on an xl-7 ????
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Yes it would work on an XL-7. You would have to give me a width of the rear end inside of the backing plated for the rear end. You also need to tell me what gear ratio it has. I'd recommend using the large diff version with possibly a lsd in it.
Might not be a bad idea to use the Wilwood 4-piston caliper upgrade in front with slotted rotors just because of the extra weight of the truck. I'll check on the price of those parts for you.
You will have to convert to a Sidekick power steering box, and you might need new front brake lines that are longer than what you have, I'm not sure about that part. I haven't had a chance to dig in to one of those that much, but I will research that part for you.
Do you have a suspension disign that you want to use, or have you gotten that far? How much lift are you planning on having? What size tires do you want to run?
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Thanks for the info on your setup. I can understand what you are wanting to do. KISS is the name of the game. I showed the link to Spidertrax just for a comparison on the parts, and custom stuff they use. In comparison to your axles you're wanting to use, is there a manu'd axle already out there?
I know you are wanting to keep it Suzuki also, but have you looked into the Ford TTB D44? It's the twin traction beam for the 4wd Ford from 1980-1996 1/2 tons? In mid 80's the drop out mount changed, but that's not a big deal. To add, the knuckle out could be used simple enough with a custom axle knuckle 'C' as it's a 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern. What is good about the TTB D44, is the amount of ratios/lockers available. The D44 is the same as any other, so axles only need to be shortened and resplined. The larger discs will help with the braking efforts of larger tires. It's a reverse cut setup, so going to a SAS from a IFS, you need to bring that pinion up for better ds angle.
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i have been trying to dream up some hybred(spell check) D44/9in for the front.  they can be geared all the way up to 7.00:1.  and you could put some CTM shafts and u-joints in for a vary durable front end.  CRAWLER
Stu
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That is an interesting idea, but the simplicity has flown the coup with that idea. The master cylinder has to be upgraded, the steering has to be bastardized to make it work, and you'd have to adapt the brake lines, etc.
In general you'd be looking at much more of a pain in the butt than it would be worth. With what I have built, and am building the KISS theory definitely is very prevalent, that's why I made it. It spells out
Keep
It
Strictly
Suzuki!
It makes things so much easier for repair if you have to take your truck to a shop for repairs when your away from home if everything is from pretty much one place, stock Suzuki Samurai!
The way I'm looking at it is, the easier that it is to find replacement pieces in the long run, the better the design.
As for the TTB diff, it would be next to impossible to be able to utilize that diff with the sidekick housing, or even the TTB knuckles would not be easy to use on the same setup.
Just a thought.
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well my thing is DON'T LET IT BREAK! that always been my thing. build it so it won't. a set of 9's in a tracker would be pretty unbreakable.
Stu
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I think that there are more people out here that just want a cheap way to get into the straight axle thing without being really abusive on their stuff. This front end will hold up to most people's use that need it, and if they set it up for what it will be used for, it should hold up pretty well for them. The people that are very hard on their stuff, let me know, and I can figure out the solution for you.
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ok ;)
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Here are 2 pics of using leafs for a straight axle in place of the IFS. You can see the front crossmember cut. I don't remember where I got these.
(http://community.webshots.com/photo/107940331/115457182doCfxe)
As for the frame bracket, I'm surprised it's not mounted in the 2 different planes of the frame (y (vertical) & z (longitudinal)).
(http://community.webshots.com/photo/107940331/115457224axZVYh)
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Here are 2 pics of using leafs for a straight axle in place of the IFS. You can see the front crossmember cut. I don't remember where I got these.
([url]http://community.webshots.com/photo/107940331/115457182doCfxe[/url])
As for the frame bracket, I'm surprised it's not mounted in the 2 different planes of the frame (y (vertical) & z (longitudinal)).
([url]http://community.webshots.com/photo/107940331/115457224axZVYh[/url])
Ok, the pics didn't come through, so here's the http link
http://community.webshots.com/photo/107940331/115457224axZVYh
http://community.webshots.com/photo/107940331/115457182doCfxe
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Hey jag, the links didn't come through, try it again. :'(
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Hey jag, the links didn't come through, try it again. :'(
I was able to get there. But here are the pics neway.
(http://www.whitepineclub.com/members/kd7hcg/pictures/otherpics/leaf2.jpg)
(http://www.whitepineclub.com/members/kd7hcg/pictures/otherpics/leaf1.jpg)
;)
Heather
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Thanks Heather. I wonder what the springs are. Hey jag, what frontend are you using?
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If you make them and they take off I'll get one over here in Australia!!!
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Thanks Heather. I wonder what the springs are. Hey jag, what frontend are you using?
It's not my vehicle. It's from a site where a Trackick got a SAS. I keep pics like this for future ideas, review, planning, etc. I don't know which site it came from. I just wanted those to see what kind of setup would be necessary to convert a IFS to leafs/SAS.
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Hey jag, if I were you, to make the truck more comfort friendly, I'd keep it coil.
What front axle are you planning on using?
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I agree with keeping it coil and also being able to use an existing front sidekick steel third member with 26 spline sidegears,AND A BOLTON SOLUTION.If so i would be very intrested..
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I'm not planning on making any suspension components, the only thing that I'm going to be building is the front axle assembly itself with steering.
Coil would be a good way to go, but you are on your own for suspension setup.
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If you check out the ORC and search for wild weasel you can see he has done a swap with Toy axles and kept it coil in front very nice setup to.
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WE DONT NEED THE ORC ;D HE'S ON HERE AS WELL, AS ALL TRUE ZUKI NUTS ARE ::) ;D http://www.cs.umass.edu/~glenn/personal.html ...(http:// http://www.cs.umass.edu/~glenn/pasfront.jpg ) ......(http:// http://www.cs.umass.edu/~glenn/panhard.jpg ) HERE'S A COUPLE PICS. FROM HIS SITE ...MATTY D. 8)
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WE DONT NEED THE ORC  ;D  HE'S ON HERE AS WELL, AS ALL TRUE ZUKI NUTS ARE  ::)  ;D  http://www.cs.umass.edu/~glenn/personal.html  ...(http:// [url]http://www.cs.umass.edu/~glenn/pasfront.jpg[/url] )  ......(http:// [url]http://www.cs.umass.edu/~glenn/panhard.jpg[/url] )  HERE'S A COUPLE PICS. FROM HIS SITE ...MATTY D.  8)
True zuki nut,,,, Dont you have to be a nut to drive one in the 1st place... LOL
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Having wheeled several times with Wildweasel, his 'track is something to behold. Fantastic machine! Is going to 35's for this year and some other tweaks.
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For this wide zuki axles how big of tire can they handle ?
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Toy axles will take 38's without a problem anything over you should look at replacing the birfs with longs.
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Toy axles will take 38's without a problem anything over you should look at replacing the birfs with longs.
i know that toys can take 38's. iam asking that hybird axle.
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I don't see 35s being a problem, I have this axle under my lwb sammy with 35s. One of the weakest links in a zuk axle is the small diff with low gears. Well, in this version, that part is taken care of.
With the locked version with Longfields, 35s or 36s won't be a problem. If it needs to be stronger yet, I can figure that part out.
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I don't see 35s being a problem, I have this axle under my lwb sammy with 35s. One of the weakest links in a zuk axle is the small diff with low gears. Well, in this version, that part is taken care of.
With the locked version with Longfields, 35s or 36s won't be a problem. If it needs to be stronger yet, I can figure that part out.
that about the tires size i was wondering about. Thanks.
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I have another recent developement that might pique people's interest. I was talking to a new buddy of mine, a Guy by the name of George. He said that he will make me a NEW Birfield design that will be 26 spline all the way through! At the hub, inside the birf, and at the diff. I also talked to Figmo at Roadless Gear about selling these items. These will have a lifetime guarantee, you break it, send it back, you get a new one....FREE! These are not a revamped version from a car that is only marginally strongeer than the stock stuff, these are new!
The problem we seem to be having so far is, Figmo doesn't know what kind of market there might be for them. The anticipated price of these birfs with shafts is going to be anywhere from $500-650 for both sides.
Does that sound like something reasonable that you guys might like to use? If so, let me know on this post, I want to see some serious replies with interest.