ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Build Diaries, How-To, DIY => Topic started by: idaholwb on February 07, 2004, 04:49:30 PM
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Well the start is finally here! What you all have been waiting for! You get to witness one pic, one day, one obstacle at a time! The buildup of a 95 4-door Sidekick becoming a leaf-sprung, SAS, trail-wonder!
Today we went from having a cut to length kick based front housing, to putting on the knuckles, spring pads, shock mounts, heavier tubing, diff armor, and part of the truss.
Tomorrow we'll get the rest of the truss and the steering done.
Heather will post the pics either tonight or tomorrow.
Hope you enjoy the buildup!
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Yup! Here we come! Here's a couple of sample pics, and click on the link to see lots more from Day 1!  :o
http://www.whitepineclub.com/members/kd7hcg/pictures/SAS/index.html
(http://www.whitepineclub.com/members/kd7hcg/pictures/SAS/DCP_5135.jpg)
(http://www.whitepineclub.com/members/kd7hcg/pictures/SAS/DCP_5155.jpg)
;D
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How come going with leafs ? Is Calmini still going on with their kit ?
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Nice work, Did you use any type of jig to keep the axle straight while welding.. Also in this pic what is this tab welded on the axle or I should say where did you get it I need something similiar, and have not had time to just make one.
(http://www.whitepineclub.com/members/kd7hcg/pictures/SAS/DCP_5156.jpg)
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I'm not sure about Calmini's SAS kit.  We have been holding out for this 'kit' for far too long and aren't going to wait for a vapor-ware product any longer when we can use it and build it now.  Moab EJS is only 50-some days away.  I believe that Calmini lost a potential customer for that product when they 'teased' us and didn't deliver.
Leafs;
Well the way I see it we should be able to get great flex out of YJ springs.  They are cheaper (we already have them, and lots of additional leafs to play with).  It will take less engineering (its a no brainer to hang leaf springs, and etc.).  And it is overall less manufacturing (don't have to build control arms and joints, etc).
I really don't have to custom fab anything.  I can purchase leaf hangers, shackle hangers, spring perches, ubolts, shackles, and leafs.  Just weld on, or bolt on.
Don't have to make control arms, or have custom springs wound, there is no major geometry to solve with getting control arms lined up, and all around its more simple.
Leafs are more tunable to my 'tastes', because I can easily add/change different leafs to get different spring rates and at minimal cost and time.  (Custom coils are expensive AND if you want it a little higher/lower/softer/firmer ride, you gotta buy an entirely different set [OUCH].)
Leafs seemed to be the cheapest and easiest solution for us.
(Dang, it sounds like I'm on a soap box.)
To answer the jig and parts questions.
Jig:
The housing is a Sidekick rear housing with the ends chopped off and steel tube slipped over them (read pounded) for reinforcement of the tube.  (The Sidekick rear housing is thinner walled then the Sammy front housing)  So the tubes where already straight off from the center section, we just made them stronger.
As for lining up the knuckles.  We used a gravity protractor, a level, a tape measure, jack stands, a straight line and "good 'ol boy know-how" to ensure that the knuckles were welded on properly.  (plus we had several different Sammy housings on tap to measure angles from and to use for parts in the event of a mishap.
Parts:
The 'tabs' that you see are Warrior Products, Universal shock mounts and spring perches.  If I remember correctly the parts numbers were WAR 150 for the shock mounts and the spring perches were part WAR 250.
I hope this helps explain it a bit better.  We are working on a write up and hope to have it online when we are finished.
~Nate
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SWEET  !
can't wait to see the finished product , i am goin to be doing this conversion also.
i love solid front axle setups
what choice are you goin with for the transfer ,dual setup, OTT . OR? .
WILL ALSO USE LEAFS
         jAKE      ÂÂ
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Cool shots on that link. Got a question or 2 concerning the alignment of the caster, pinion angle and the leaf pad mount. Really, it's how did you measure the angles before welding these angles in? Isn't the weight of the truck, axle location (wheelbase consideration), and the size tire to be factors? Why didn't you wait till you had the load of the vehicle on the springs with the tires on to determine first the appropriate wb, then pinion angle, then the leaf pad, then the caster?
One thing about using leafs as a tunable in comparison to a coil/links, yes the coil is better to determine interferences of the tire/body, by just removing it, but it's the same as with leafs. You can remove all the leafs in the leaf pack and leave the main. Then cycle the suspension to determine the interferences. It does take more time, but once done, it's finished, or until the next tire size you step up with. Then it's the same thing all over again.
Can't wait to see it in action. BTW, won't this make the Suzi to tall for the Heather's garage?
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Hey there,
The T-case option we are choosing is going to be the OTT Kicker 3.  A married setup should make for an easier install, especially since they will be installing our 4.24 gears.
We mirrored the Sammy locations and angles for pinion, knuckle, and spring perchs.  (Keeps caster alignment calculations easier).  It is basically a hybrid, widened Sammy setup.
Since we haven't mounted up the spring hangers, shackle hangers or purchased shackles yet, we can still play around with the overall drive shaft angle and use shims to correct, if necessary.
Its a little like a 'cart before horse' scenero, but this is a daily driver and downtime needs to be reduced so we don't have much time to play with it under the truck to get everything 'perfect' and if the housing could be fabbed up before hand so we just have to hang springs then the rest should take care of itsself.  *cross fingers*
This isn't the first one that we've been built.  (hint, hint) But to be more detailed, we measured spring lengths, center bolt locations, frame width, shacke hanger locations, estimated output shaft on t-case location. We've seen/measured a narrow (stock) sammy front end under the front of a 2 door and determined that all is tolerable.
~Nate
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Can't wait to see it in action. BTW, won't this make the Suzi to tall for the Heather's garage?
We've got 8 inches to play with. If the overall lift is more then 8, we're going to have to either raise the roof or drop the floor... *grin*
(or use a smaller diameter set of tires for the daily driver.)
~Nate
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Kicker 3 is a good choice, I am just finishing up installing mine ;D
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Do you have any tips on installation?
Custom cross member aside, how exactly does the Sammy case mate up?
Does the Kick case come with some sort of adapter that bolts to the input flange on the Sammy case?
~Nate
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why not use the S.O.S Ringr and dual Toy case the setup would be alot stonger then the zuk case.
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its a pretty strait forward install. There is an adapter between the T-cases. This solidly connects the 2. The adapter goes over the Tracker output and sami input shafts (sami flange is removed) and is connected by a coupler. The Kicker 2 would also work great for you, that would give you your centered output and its a stronger set up. You just wouldnt get the high range reduction if thats what your after. Or, as Rockrat metioned, you could go with the ringr but I imagine you want to keep your Tracker gear set, or you could sell it and get some toyota reduction gears.
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HMMMMM NEVER NEW SHE WAS IN THE CLOSET ;D SOUNDS GREAT WILL BE WATCHING & DROOLING ON MY KEYBOARD SOME MORE ::) MATTY D. 8)
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I was looking at the photos on the OTT website and it looked like the input flange removal seemed about right.
Thanks for clearifying  (I hadn't actually talked to OTT myself yet)
As for t-case options, we will go with the Kick/Sammy case combo as we've already invested in Kick t-case gears and also already have a Sammy t-case in possesion. ÂÂ
I agree that the Toyota case solution would be a great way to go, especially if we go with Toyota axles.  But since this is a minimal cash out of pocket project and we are trying to keep it all Suzuki parts, we'll give the Kicker 3 a try.
We are indeed looking for the 1.4:1 reduction in high with the Sammy case.  This will allow for larger tires in the long run, and the ability to go back to stock 5.12 gears.
Thanks for all of your feed back.
~Nate
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just wonderin is calmini makin a straight axle conversion?
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....snip....
As for t-case options, we will go with the Kick/Sammy case combo as we've already invested in Kick t-case gears and also already have a Sammy t-case in possesion. ÂÂ
I agree that the Toyota case solution would be a great way to go, especially if we go with Toyota axles.  But since this is a minimal cash out of pocket project and we are trying to keep it all Suzuki parts, we'll give the Kicker 3 a try.
We are indeed looking for the 1.4:1 reduction in high with the Sammy case.  This will allow for larger tires in the long run, and the ability to go back to stock 5.12 gears.
Thanks for all of your feed back.
~Nate
Now, the output of the Sami case is offset to the right. Are you planning to keep the stock Trackick centered rear axle, or are you stepping up to an offset rear axle, still using the Trackick hardware; sort of like the Sky-Manu Toyota axle offset for the Sami? Keeping the centered rear axle, you'll have to run a cv rear ds, correct?
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The last time I spoke with Chris at Calmini, he said Steve has commited to building the lift, this was about a week and a half ago.
Mac
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Now, the output of the Sami case is offset to the right. Are you planning to keep the stock Trackick centered rear axle, or are you stepping up to an offset rear axle, still using the Trackick hardware; sort of like the Sky-Manu Toyota axle offset for the Sami? Keeping the centered rear axle, you'll have to run a cv rear ds, correct?
With the sammy case in a longer wheelbase, it isn't as much of a big deal as a shorter wheelbase truck. I have a kick rear end in my lwb sammy, I have no problem with driveline angle causing vibration or anything. I have over 10" of lift and run 35s with no problem.
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 I believe that Calmini lost a potential customer for that product when they 'teased' us and didn't deliver.
Gee, next time an automaker "teases" us with a new concept car (i.e. the Suzuki XL Pickup) and doesn't bring it to market, we should stop being thier customer. :P
Frankly, I'm glad they are testing the set-up and doing the proper R&D, and not rushing to market with it. This "prototype-to-product" rush has a checkered past in the Zook world. In my chatting with CALMINI, I've learned that they are refining the product from many angles, from functionality in making it a better system to streamlining it's design to reduce production costs, making the product as competitive as possible. I've been assured that it will be the definative SAS kit for the Kick, and bolt-on to boot.
Didn't your momma teach yous that good things come to those who wait? ;D
Otherwise, kudos on the front axle! You gonna run 26 spline inner shafts? I think those with a treated birf and cup/rings is fairly stout for tires in the 32-33" range.
What did you use for the tube? Did you sleeve the Kick tube then slide the Sammy tubes into the Kick tubes? I know the Sammy rear tube fits inside the Kick tube with a little pretty persuasion. ;) This helps keep the tubes red-neck straight. We have one in Yankee Bob's rig and ZERO locker problems, so we know it's straight.
Do tell, man!
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Gee, next time an automaker "teases" us with a new concept car (i.e.  the Suzuki XL Pickup) and doesn't bring it to market, we should stop being thier customer. :P
Frankly, I'm glad they are testing the set-up and doing the proper R&D, and not rushing to market with it.  This "prototype-to-product" rush has a checkered past in the Zook world.  In my chatting with CALMINI, I've learned that they are refining the product from many angles, from functionality in making it a better system to streamlining it's design to reduce production costs, making the product as competitive as possible.  I've been assured that it will be the definative SAS kit for the Kick, and bolt-on to boot.
Didn't your momma teach yous that good things come to those who wait? ;D
Otherwise, kudos on the front axle!  You gonna run 26 spline inner shafts? I think those with a treated birf and cup/rings is fairly stout for tires in the 32-33" range.
What did you use for the tube?  Did you sleeve the Kick tube then slide the Sammy tubes into the Kick tubes?  I know the Sammy rear tube fits inside the Kick tube with a little pretty persuasion. ;)  This helps keep the tubes red-neck straight.  We have one in Yankee Bob's rig and  ZERO locker problems, so we know it's straight.
Do tell, man!
Awh, the Calmini bash wasn't that bad. Heck we've still got lots of Calmini products bolted on the truck right now and will be purchasing a few more in the future. Just kinda sad to have products flouted and invariably people set expectatations that weren't met, intentional or not.
In the software world, this is whats called vapor-ware, until it's actually a marketable product. Sure somebody thought of it, and made a proto, but until it's for sale, it doesn't exist.
Glad to hear that somebody has the 'inside' scoop from Calmini. I'll be holding my breath until it's available and then be glad that all of my fellow Zukiteers can catch up to what I'll already be having.
*grin*
NE WAY.
Yup 26 spline inners (sidekick rear up front) for now, we'll see how the stock Sammy birfs hold up. If I go through too many birfs, we'll try the treated ones, if those don't hold up then we may upgrade to 26 inner, 26 middle, and 26 outter. (custom job)
Yup, we sleaved the kick tube, then slipped in the Sammy stuff inside. I think that the housing will hold up just fine. Only worries are the birfs.
Hopefully this weekend we can hang springs, build steering, and get ner 80% complete.
We'll keep everybody updated.