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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Roland13 on January 25, 2004, 03:55:03 AM

Title: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: Roland13 on January 25, 2004, 03:55:03 AM
Hi
Just got me a 89 SIdekick and the idle is jumping from about 1200 rpm to 2100 rpm, it surges. Does it when its cold and when it warms up. Any ideas what it could be, I have been told it may be the engine heat sensor?

Thanks
Eaon

;D
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: wildgoody on January 25, 2004, 04:23:00 AM
The 89' has a "kicker" on the throttle body
that when the engine is cold kicks the throttle
open a little to give you a high idle.

If this is kicking on and off, it could affect the
idle speed. I have always had too high idle when
cold and erratic idle at times, I think it's the way
the throttle body was designed, I think there is a
screw to addjust the idle speed that the kicker gives,
try backing this off some, the other screw adjusts
the regular warm idle speed, it does not contact
the kicker, so you should be able to tell which one
you need to addjust.

I think the kicker is a piece of junk, it's vacuum opperated
and if you want you can adjust the thing so it doesn't do hardly
anything, and just run from the regular idle mostly.

there is two little electric opperated valves at the front of
the engine on the intake side, they got hoses running to them,
those might be the problem too, mine got both vent covers
broken off, (bonehead dealer mechanics) but I don't know
what they do, or if they are needed, seems to me one of
them is the vacuum line that controls the kicker too.

Check the vacuum lines for proper conection and placement,
I know all of mine probably need replaced, but I don't have
any idle problems I can't live with.
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: Cowtracker on January 25, 2004, 08:24:05 AM
what he said ;)
Also check the EGR valve be sure it's seated. remove the vacume hose and rap it a couple of time with a light hammer or a wrench, rachet or what ever you got handy. see if that settles it down.

 If the EGR is not seated it wil cause a vacume leak (on TBI that's = to opening the throttle)  and also makes the kicker go crazy.
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: Mac on January 25, 2004, 11:53:37 AM
Check your TPS with a meter, it sounds like that might be the problem.

Mac
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: zutefisk on January 25, 2004, 02:15:22 PM
My 89 has a similar problem. It will idle at 700 for a for a minute or two, then the RPM bounces between 700 and 1400.  

Turning off the head lights/heater fan calms it down sometimes.

Is there something that is supposed to adjust the idle up when you turn on the lights that might be going bad?/

Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: wildgoody on January 25, 2004, 02:22:28 PM
I always had a different sound comming from the
EFI system when I turned on the Lights, like an
idle speed increase, sounds like a low fast light
thud sound, how would you describe the sound ??
similar ??
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: Cowtracker on January 25, 2004, 04:48:58 PM
a weak battery can cause cause idle sped flucuation (700-1500rpn)
when I was an auto tech I had a sidekick in with idle speed issues. I couldent tell him absoulty for sure a battery would fix it cuz it tested low but still in speck . Another shop went out on a limb , put in a battery and that fixed it


Idle speeds over 2,000 rpm? I don't think a weak battery will cause that.  
vacume leaks or improper TPS adjustment can though.
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: zutefisk on January 26, 2004, 02:59:47 PM
Definitely related to running the lights and/or heater.

Today I turned off lights and heater as I was putzing through the lights downtown. Idle was stable.

Turned the lights and heater on a couple blocks before I got to work, idle started bouncing. Turned lights and heater off, it stopped.

Did not hear a thud sound, idle runs up, then suddenly cuts outs and drops down.

Will check battery and grounds.
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: keith on January 27, 2004, 07:56:16 AM
My 90 does the same thing with the idle bouncing around.  If I dial it up to 1300 rpm minimum it doesn't jump around, but that is a little high for normal running.  Also occasionaly when warmed up it will want to dip below 1000 rpm and die.  When that happens it is hard to start for a few minutes.
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: Mac on January 27, 2004, 08:00:19 AM
It really sounds like your TPS pull it off and clean the inside up with some contact cleaner from Radio Shack, and set the TPS back up with your multimeter and you should be set to go.


Mac
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: Zukipilot on January 27, 2004, 09:46:51 PM
Mac, does the FSM tell how to do this? If not could you give me more details.
1- Where the TPS is located
2- How to 'set it up' with a mulit meter

Thanks,
Zig
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: zutefisk on January 28, 2004, 01:43:52 PM
Battery Advice was good.

Clamp on positive terminal was loose. After tightening clamp, idle is stable after warmup.

Still bounces while warming up. But not as harsh.





Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: ksa421 on January 28, 2004, 05:08:11 PM
My Kick also make kind of a thumping sound when it ildes at first, then it goes away once it warms up but comes back again when I get the RPMs over 2200 or so. I think I figured it that it makes it when I press the pedal past a certain point.  I havent figure out what it is and it ruins okay so I dont fret about it. I also dont have the stock air box on anymore so mabey it is just some sound coming out the aluminum intake tube that goes over the motor.



Jacob
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: zutefisk on January 29, 2004, 02:44:21 PM
Battery advice is proving to be even better!

Now that I have had a chance to get a charge on the battery, the bounce seems to be gone even when it is warming up.
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: DSHornet on January 30, 2004, 05:17:52 AM
Quote
Mac, does the FSM tell how to do this? If not could you give me more details.
1- Where the TPS is located
2- How to 'set it up' with a mulit meter

Thanks,
Zig

The Chilton's manual tells how.

Don, y'all
.
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: Mac on January 30, 2004, 12:51:28 PM
Both the chiltons and the fsm does if you want I can scan it for you and send it.

Mac
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: Zukipilot on January 31, 2004, 12:04:52 AM
Thanks Mac, I have both of them but they are at the old shop and I have not had time to go get them.
Zig
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: wildgoody on January 31, 2004, 03:29:45 AM
Here are the pages you need   ;)

(http://wildcatent.freeyellow.com/133.gif)



(http://wildcatent.freeyellow.com/134.gif)

If these are too small to see good, get the location
propertys and paste into your browser location bar.
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: Zukipilot on January 31, 2004, 04:24:09 AM
Thanks Wild 8)
Zig
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: Mac on January 31, 2004, 05:23:59 AM
Wild Goody, you must be a single guy with way to much time on his hands. thanks I have been busy with the little guy this morning

Mac
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: wildgoody on January 31, 2004, 09:52:40 AM
Well, I do have too much time on my hands, I'm taking a
break from work as far as single, nope, been married 15
years, and I got two kidlets 9 and 11, both boys who love
to go wheeling with dad  ;D  momma hates dirt, bugs,
and all the stuff wheelers seem to crave  ;)

So how was your day ???
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: Mac on January 31, 2004, 09:56:14 AM
Ive got two under both still in Diapers, you have been there. pouring rain here today, at least there is no snow.

Mac
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: wildgoody on January 31, 2004, 10:18:32 AM
LOL, Didn't you figure out how you got the first one ???
You know now don't you, Mine are 22 months apart,
fight like cats and dogs, until one is gone, then they
get lonely.

The oldest went to Catalina Island Marine Institute
for a week long camp with his 4th grade class, and
Andrew, the 9 year old, who was 7 I think then, started
crying before David even left on the bus,
"I'm going to miss David" he sobbed, poor little guy.

It's a funny love-hate relationship they have. ;)
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: Natebert on January 31, 2004, 04:17:41 PM
Thats a great find in the FSM/Haynes!
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: wildgoody on January 31, 2004, 11:10:04 PM
I have the whole Haynes book on the Hard Drive,
cover to cover, I got it from another independent
zuki site PM me if youwant to DL it  ;)
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: NY_SIDEKICKER on February 01, 2004, 03:20:20 AM
Quote
LOL, Didn't you figure out how you got the first one ???
You know now don't you, Mine are 22 months apart,
fight like cats and dogs, until one is gone, then they
get lonely.

The oldest went to Catalina Island Marine Institute
for a week long camp with his 4th grade class, and
Andrew, the 9 year old, who was 7 I think then, started
crying before David even left on the bus,
"I'm going to miss David" he sobbed, poor little guy.

It's a funny love-hate relationship they have. ;)

12/8/1 GIRL BOY GIRL .....THAT WHOLE LOVE HATE THING, I'M HEARING YA  ;D
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: alterego158 on May 04, 2006, 02:09:37 PM
Just to clarify, the potential solutions to an erratic idle are:

Ensure EGR valve is seated properly
Check battery condition and connections
Check for vacuum leaks
Clean and replace TPS sensor

Is that the general consensus?  I'm thinking that's in order of cost and difficulty, but if anyone else has any suggestions please chime in.  I know lots of folks are having similar problems and I'd like to see 'em solved once and for all.

Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: alterego158 on May 06, 2006, 09:37:27 AM
Ensure EGR valve is seated properly
Check battery condition and connections
Check for vacuum leaks
Clean and replace TPS sensor

No luck yet. I'll keep y'all posted. 

On a side note, that EGR valve really needed the clean, and had no gasket left to speak of!  Now if I could just clean the rest of that carbon out of my sink....
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: wildgoody on May 06, 2006, 09:55:58 AM
The can looking thing on the left side of the TBI
(2nd picture) that's what makes the thumping sould
it the ICS, for some reason I didn't realize the
TBI had one

Wild
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: alterego158 on May 10, 2006, 10:47:39 PM

Ensure EGR valve is seated properly
Check battery condition and connections
Check for vacuum leaks
Clean and replace TPS sensor


Okay, had some more thoughts.  Turned out I hadn't ruled out all potential vacuum leaks.

Some chance it could be the vacuum advance?  That certainly doesn't hold vacuum (not sure if it should on an 89) or if it's moving right.  Gonna check some out at the junkyard. 

Otherwise all the vacuum lines etc look good.  I need to find a multimeter to check the TPS and other vacuum/electrical stuff I guess.
Title: Re: Idle Jumping Up and Down
Post by: wildgoody on May 10, 2006, 10:54:28 PM
Yes it should hold some vacuum,
it's probably bad.