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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: ChileKick on May 06, 2005, 05:10:36 PM

Title: Second front shock
Post by: ChileKick on May 06, 2005, 05:10:36 PM
Hi people, I've been running in national CRTT (campeonato de rally todo terreno) competition here in Chile. It's a cross country rally , in my sidekick , not with optimun tyres nor with apropiate amount of money but being myself a hobby mechanic I managed to handle things and work my way to a first place in my class and third place among all competitors. We currently have arround 30 pickups (mainly Toyotas) and 2 suzukis ( a Samurai and my Sidekick). Besides telling you all this I need some help on mounting a second shock per wheel , in the rear it's easy ,but up front is something different as the bottom of the shock turns with the wheel , and there is little space left in the A-arm between the wheel and the inner "wheelwel" (not shure of that speling) Has anyone seen other sidekick with two shocks up front? How was that setup?
I really would like to mount to equal front shocks both holding the wheel and working as struts in order that the two struts can give better strength to the wheels , which receive big punding during the race.

Any help/ideas will be greatlly apreciated

I got some pics ...can someone help me uploding them?
thanks
Douglas
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: SnoFalls on May 07, 2005, 02:14:47 AM
My suggestions

Are you running stock struts now?
See if there are other struts that may help. You'll certainly need a gas charged strut (to keep it from fading as the oil in the strut foams). You might also find a strut that would swap in but with different valving. Folks at OME would be a good bet to help out.

I really don't see how you could add another shock. Just isn't much room. A mount in front of the coil spring to a perch welded at the strut tower is all I can see as an option. But not sure if the steering will clear then ...
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: ChileKick on May 07, 2005, 03:19:10 AM
Yes they are stock. and I was thinking more in the rear side of the spring , cause in front as you say,the steering will bother .
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: Rhinoman on May 07, 2005, 07:53:23 AM
The old Procomp 2.5" kit had an additional shock either side at the front. Was very stiff for normal use though. Where's Zig, didn't he have a Procomp for a short time? He needs to post more too  :P
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: b1pig on May 07, 2005, 10:11:14 AM
Pro Comp does not make the kit anymore. I found one in a wrecking yard. When I contacted them, they were nice enough to send me  photocopy of the installaion instructions. They were nearly useless at the time. I did install what I had of the kit. The lower shock mounts were gone, but the upper shock mounts utilized a tab on the strut spacer.

I didnt bother with the shocks at all. My Tracker sees road milage more than offroad... and I couldnt imagine getting beaten up. The rear is so stiff now, it isnt even funny. I dont think I could bottom it out if I got it 3 feet in the air. :)
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: bus_driver on May 07, 2005, 10:12:27 AM
different application but a friend of mine had an old chev vega with a 67 vette motor and the front end had coil spring and shock and then a helper spring and shock inside of the main spring maybe this concept can be made....the helper system was from Monroe we never saw this on another Vega and figured was not factory

Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: Charlie on May 07, 2005, 10:17:40 PM
Maybe you could add airbags inside the coils running at low pressure to make the spings more progressive, your english is good except the last bit about better strength to the wheels can you explain a bit more?
Regards Charlie
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: ed oorklep on May 08, 2005, 11:20:34 AM
Quote
The old Procomp 2.5" kit had an additional shock either side at the front. Was very stiff for normal use though. Where's Zig, didn't he have a Procomp for a short time? He needs to post more too  :P

I have it too, and it does have 2 shocks in the front (or at least should I removed them last week) and as b1pig said it's real stiff.
I'll try to shoot you some more pic's of the mounts this week.
But here's one allready:
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/shockmount.jpg)
Made with my mobile so not the best pic possible but my digicam is broken  >:(.
If you want a bigger shot, leave me a mail or PM  ;)
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: ChileKick on May 08, 2005, 03:05:15 PM
The strut is the only thing holding the wheel into it's position besides the lower balljoint , so if I can manage to get another shock with same anchoring points as the stock one it will help to hold and give better strenght to the wheel.
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: Rhinoman on May 09, 2005, 12:01:25 AM
Quote
The strut is the only thing holding the wheel into it's position besides the lower balljoint , so if I can manage to get another shock with same anchoring points as the stock one it will help to hold and give better strenght to the wheel.


It might just make the strut tower flex a lot more or did you fit a strut brace?
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: 90Stomper on May 09, 2005, 12:31:38 PM
that a pretty good pic for a phone!  is that travel limiting strap part of their kit or did you do that?  would really like to see a pic of the bottom mounting for it ;D
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: b1pig on May 09, 2005, 12:59:56 PM
The strap is part of the kit. I wish all the parts woulda been on mine...but it was a junkyard special. ;)

I dont think anything can really replace the strut for strength... or truly help add strength to the strut. The best thing you could do, and keep it simple would be comparing other struts. Maybe finding one with a larger diameter piston rod that could be used? That may not make it ride so much more stiff.

Plus... can any of you honestly attest to damage from bending a strut?

Ok... I'm throwing ideas out......

Ed, maybe you could email me a pic of the lower shock mounts. Just out of curiosity, you know. ;)
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: SnoFalls on May 09, 2005, 01:56:10 PM
ChileKick ...

I luv to hear your rally run a sidekick ... that's so cool.

As rhinoman says, a strut brace _should_ be added ... adding gussets from the strut tower to the frame wouldn't hurt either. Do you really think an extra shock is needed?

Another thing to consider is out back, replace the rear control arm bushing on the rear axle with a "johnny joint". If your really flying, that'll add some stregth to what is just a stock bushing.
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: mrfuelish on May 09, 2005, 02:39:40 PM
I belive that the second shock should be a rebound shock like a 10/90 valving  10% up dampening and 90% down (tire movement) say you come off of a jump with out them your springs will tend to unload on you and throw your rig up in the air and can be dangerouse at speeds over 100 mph. (ask me how I know !) more so for me in the rear of my rig being a rear engine rail.p.s. I have ran koni and kyb adjustable struts, that would be nice if you could find one to fit.
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: ChileKick on May 09, 2005, 04:32:30 PM
thanks a lot to everyone , this post turned out better than what I expected , lots of great ideas and good advices.  ;D

I can get my hands on some adjustable shocks.

I'm pluging my welder and getting my measuring tape.
Let's see how things turn out I'l keep you posted. Next date for rally is middle june so I'd better hurry.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: mrfuelish on May 09, 2005, 06:12:27 PM
one more thing, on your struts they are at there weakest point at full extension, if you were to put limiting straps on them that would be the easyest and cheapest way to make them stronger.
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: ed oorklep on May 10, 2005, 02:28:32 AM
Here are some more pics of it  ;)
How the shock will sit when it's on:
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/10052005Small.jpg)
The lower mount:
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/10052005001Small.jpg)
And the upper mount:
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/10052005002Small.jpg)
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: 90Stomper on May 12, 2005, 04:01:33 PM
cool, thanks! ;)
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: ed oorklep on September 09, 2005, 02:59:49 AM
brought back to the top for Hitrick
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: hitrick on September 09, 2005, 04:12:56 AM
brought back to the top for Hitrick

Thank You .

It look  very professional, I think this could be a great solution for me too .

I will look for someone with pro-comp 2.5 " (old kit)

Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: wildgoody on September 09, 2005, 09:02:03 AM
Start by getting rid of the stock wimpy
struts and put in some KYB Gas struts,
you would be amazed at how much the
bigger struts help
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: hitrick on September 09, 2005, 09:39:54 AM
I have already OME installed for almost two years  .

lets say that I don't have much left in my vitara that I can to upgrage  ;) 8)


maybe to 31" tires from my 29 " MTR(goodyear) that I have now will be installed after some body-lift ( I didn't  want a body lift till now  - because it dosn't help much for off-road and has some disadvantage as I guess  You know - like car  stability because the center of gravity is getting higher )

Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: hitrick on September 09, 2005, 09:44:35 AM
Start by getting rid of the stock wimpy
struts and put in some KYB Gas struts,
you would be amazed at how much the
bigger struts help

My OME struts  are to soft for me , what brand / model of struts can You advice on ?
I prefer something that can be adjust (like the ranch 9000 I have in the rear ) .

10x
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: Rhinoman on September 09, 2005, 02:05:05 PM
Start by getting rid of the stock wimpy
struts and put in some KYB Gas struts,
you would be amazed at how much the
bigger struts help


My stock struts were gas. I think that maybe the early ones weren't. Koni do inserts for the stock struts, I think they're adjustable. They only list them for the early models and I assumed that was because only the early ones had non-gas struts and you have to cut the old struts to put the inserts in.

http://www.koni-na.com/pdf/boltstrut.pdf
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: wildgoody on September 09, 2005, 10:41:16 PM
My KYBs have bigger tubes than stock, and
have a bigger shaft for increased strength

Gas Charged for better oil control and I think
would be a good replacement for stockers

Wild
Title: Re: Second front shock
Post by: hitrick on September 10, 2005, 01:20:10 AM
I had KYB in the past . it's good  and cheap compare to OME or Koni.

but I can't find it in Israel now .