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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: brlj on September 24, 2003, 02:59:22 AM

Title: Front spring sag?
Post by: brlj on September 24, 2003, 02:59:22 AM
I have a newly installed Calmini 3" suspension lift and I may have a problem. Steve at Calmini had told me that the front may sit high until the bumper and winch are installed.  I dont have a winch and my bumper is not as heave as Calmini's but the front sits lower than the rear and the tops of my tires are leaning in toward the inner wheel wells a bit. I have an exoskeleton but I have more weight from that on the rear than the front.

If I use a 1/2" spring spacer will it actually raise it 1/2" ? I really dont want to cover up a problem with a spacer but then again I dont know if this is a problem or not.

Thanks,
Bill
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: ebewley on September 24, 2003, 04:41:13 AM
Quote


If I use a 1/2" spring spacer will it actually raise it 1/2" ? I really dont want to cover up a problem with a spacer but then again I dont know if this is a problem or not.

Thanks,
Bill


Actually, a spacer that measures 1/2" longer than stock will lift the frontend close to an 1" because of the ratio on the spring.

Check our "Wheeler's Spring Spacer" article in the archives.

-Eric
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: Mikerpm4x4 on September 24, 2003, 09:58:45 AM
  Is the rear set up pretty light? Spare on the back? Any gear? Mabey the front isnt low, mabey the rear is high.  I have been running one of the first 3 inch kits made. I am still running the same coils that the kit came with. Yea the kit settled about 1 inch after install but it stayed there. It took about 2 weeks to settle. Ive now had the kit for at least 2 years I think. I dont remember any exact date. Another posibility is the front settled faster than the rear.  I did add a 1/2 inch spacer to the front but thats I think that had to be done to support the steel 7.5 diff I made. That thing weighs a lot more than you would think it does. :( Ya gotta keep in mind these things are very weight sensitive.

 This reminds me of a funny story!  ::) So me and a couple of buddys were going to our 4WD meeting and we all piled into my tracker. Im driving and "buddy #1" was in the passenger front "buddy#2" in the passenger rear. "buddy #1 and #2 = about 550lbs. I = 200lbs Anybody see a problem?  Other people from our club were following behind. When we got to our meeting one of em yells "Somebody needs to eat a salad!"  :o Aparently we were leaning to the right pretty hard! :P

Mike
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: ebewley on September 24, 2003, 11:06:21 AM
Quote


Yeah right, soaking wet holding four big-macs you might weigh 200lbs. :)

-Eric
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: brlj on September 24, 2003, 12:39:28 PM
Mike,

I have a full size spare w/steel rim and a small tool box mounted in the rear. If I measure the space from the tire to fender opening the front has 7" and the rear has 8 1/2".  Measure yours for me and let me know what you have. I run 33x12.50 TSL Radails. The thing that really bothers me is the top of the wheels tilting inward. Like this    //      \\      those are tires - lol.  Thats if your looking at the front of the vehicle. If a 3/4" spacer gave 1 1/2" lift a 1/2" spacer would probably do the trick.

Thanks,
Bill
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: Mikerpm4x4 on September 24, 2003, 01:14:45 PM
Quote
Yeah right, soaking wet holding four big-macs you might weigh 200lbs. :)

-Eric



Actually 205lbs DI*K

:P
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: Mikerpm4x4 on September 24, 2003, 01:17:15 PM
Bill

How much up travel does your strut have when its sittin at 7"? Im going to go measure mine and post it in a minute.

Mike
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: Samurai_Hamster on September 24, 2003, 01:26:12 PM
Cut off that pony tail and I bet you drop 45 lbs!  8)
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: Mikerpm4x4 on September 24, 2003, 01:32:35 PM
Im runnin at 7 inches all around. I have two inches of up travel on the strut. Thats about 3 at the wheel I belive. These measurements were taken with 35s on 8 inch rims. I do notice that with 10 inch rims the front sits lower. More leverage I suppose.

Another thing I forgot. Trackick's sit 1 inch high in the rear stock. :-[
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: Mikerpm4x4 on September 24, 2003, 01:33:45 PM
Quote
Cut off that pony tail and I bet you drop 45 lbs!  8)



Mabey 4.5 lbs!
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: Samurai_Hamster on September 24, 2003, 01:39:19 PM
ha hahha.....

Hey Mike Hagen, I went to your site again, hit the map layout and lo and behold I actually have been in your area. Small world. I was at Barron installing a Novell POS system, in Amery doing a server upgrade, and HOlcombe installing a five user Novell network system! This was a few years back, but those towns are real close to your off road places.
ALso Ashland, wayyyyyyy up on the lake, rice lake, and a followup vist in Chetek.  

Small world huh? :o
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: brlj on September 24, 2003, 02:52:00 PM
If the Tracker sits 1" high in the rear Im only 1/2" off then. Ill measure the up travel tomorrow morning and post it. Ive pulled up on the bumper and it is at least 2" but Ill check it for sure.

Thanks ,
Bill
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: ebewley on September 24, 2003, 03:17:55 PM
Quote



Actually 205lbs DI*K

:P


ROTFLOL
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: brlj on September 25, 2003, 01:19:33 AM
I checked my up travel. measured from the top of the tire to the fender edge I have 2 1/2" of up travel on the strut. Also I have 8" rims on mine.

Bill
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: Mikerpm4x4 on September 25, 2003, 12:12:02 PM
If you add a spacer that wont give you much up travel. 1 1/2 inches it sounds like. You could flip the strut plate if you have enough travel on the cv. Then you would be back at 2 1/2.

Mike
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: brlj on October 15, 2003, 02:11:39 PM
Hey ,

What if I flip the strut mount and then mount the lower balljoint under the a-arm? I could also make small skid/protection plates to guard the mount. Let me know what you think.

Later,
Bill
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: Zukipilot on October 15, 2003, 10:08:26 PM
Bill,
I had my strut mount flipped (with the 3" drop bracket)and it gave just enough extra down travel to trash (over extending) many CV's. The drivers sidewould pull past the retaining ring in the inner cup and the passenger side would pull far enough out of the side gears that it would twist the end of the axle off under power. Both would only happen during full drop and wheels truned. I flipped the mounts back over when I installed my Anvil and have had alot better luck.
Later,
Zig
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: barcus on December 23, 2003, 11:59:54 PM
hi there,

i too suffered from the front spring sag. i sent calmini a pic of car and they sent me replacement front springs. after a couple of weeks of use the sag came back again. how did u solve this problem? did u use a spacer?

alain
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: jagular7 on December 24, 2003, 02:26:35 AM
Quote
Mike,

I have a full size spare w/steel rim and a small tool box mounted in the rear. If I measure the space from the tire to fender opening the front has 7" and the rear has 8 1/2".  Measure yours for me and let me know what you have. I run 33x12.50 TSL Radails. The thing that really bothers me is the top of the wheels tilting inward. Like this    //      \\      those are tires - lol.  Thats if your looking at the front of the vehicle. If a 3/4" spacer gave 1 1/2" lift a 1/2" spacer would probably do the trick.

Thanks,
Bill

Shouldn't the measurement be taken at the coil rather than at a body point. I would think there would be too many variances between one vehicle to another to measure at the tire for comparison. I'd compare from the tire one side to the other, but that's it. Between vehicles, I'd measure the static compression of the coil. It's what hold the vehicle up.

mm
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: jagular7 on December 24, 2003, 02:35:19 AM
Quote
Mike,

....snip....The thing that really bothers me is the top of the wheels tilting inward. Like this    //      \\      those are tires - lol.  Thats if your looking at the front of the vehicle. If a 3/4" spacer gave 1 1/2" lift a 1/2" spacer would probably do the trick.

Thanks,
Bill


What makes your tires tilt like that is the radial link are the lower control arm plays on you as it's the solid link to the frame. The push to go in comes from the coil being too compressed along with the link of the strut. Now some discussion has brought about the spacer for the strut. If the strut is considered a linkable shock, it has no weight carrying capabilities. However, as it's a solid link for the top mount of the front suspension configuration, I'd look into seeing if it's mounted propering, the cone is mounted securely, the frame mount is secured, etc. If the coil's measurement comes within/near consistantcy, then I'd look into the strut's mount.
Lastly, the ball joint is a link between the knuckle and the lower control arm. Once this extends to it's farthest point (limited by the geometry of the ball within the socket), then I'd say it needs replacement.

If this read like mud, think of the truck without the coil. How much the lower control arm, the ball joint, and the strut play for the front suspension geometry. Coil is used to suspend the weight of the vehicle.

I'm confused in trying to figure out a way of writing this to be understandable.

Have a safe and happy holiday.
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: brlj on December 24, 2003, 06:00:43 AM
This measurement was just a gage. We actually went later and measured the up travel to see if they were close.

Bill


Quote

Shouldn't the measurement be taken at the coil rather than at a body point. I would think there would be too many variances between one vehicle to another to measure at the tire for comparison. I'd compare from the tire one side to the other, but that's it. Between vehicles, I'd measure the static compression of the coil. It's what hold the vehicle up.

mm

Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: brlj on December 24, 2003, 06:03:46 AM
The ball joints may need replaced. One thing is I have had to adjust the toe in a couple of times, it seems it gets out of whack somehow. :-/

Later,
Bill



Quote


What makes your tires tilt like that is the radial link are the lower control arm plays on you as it's the solid link to the frame. The push to go in comes from the coil being too compressed along with the link of the strut. Now some discussion has brought about the spacer for the strut. If the strut is considered a linkable shock, it has no weight carrying capabilities. However, as it's a solid link for the top mount of the front suspension configuration, I'd look into seeing if it's mounted propering, the cone is mounted securely, the frame mount is secured, etc. If the coil's measurement comes within/near consistantcy, then I'd look into the strut's mount.
Lastly, the ball joint is a link between the knuckle and the lower control arm. Once this extends to it's farthest point (limited by the geometry of the ball within the socket), then I'd say it needs replacement.

If this read like mud, think of the truck without the coil. How much the lower control arm, the ball joint, and the strut play for the front suspension geometry. Coil is used to suspend the weight of the vehicle.

I'm confused in trying to figure out a way of writing this to be understandable.

Have a safe and happy holiday.

Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: van7559 on December 24, 2003, 11:17:44 AM
If I am not mistaken a chamber kit from you local auto parts store will fix your tire tilt. My friends all dive the lowered rice burners and their tires tilited too, until they bought the kit.
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: barcus on December 27, 2003, 02:00:08 PM
i also suffer from front spring sag.  i have the calmini 6" lift combo kit installed. i dont have neither the winch or the calmini bumper installed so i think my front end is pretty light. how can i correct this? and where can i get the spring spacer inserts?

how can i upload a picture so u can visualize my vitara?

thanks for the help

barcus
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: Natebert on December 29, 2003, 02:21:24 PM
Has anybody personally experienced more then just a couple Calmini 3 inch suspension lifts, "hands on" at one time to know weather or not there are actually spring differences?  People post both ways on this topic and I was wondering if it is due to manufacturing differences in the springs or is it primarily due to vehicle differences?  (Driving style, additional gear, etc)

I find it strange to hear about peoples spring sag, when the 3 different, 3 inch lifts I've seen have been 'too firm' even with winch bumpers attached.

~Nate
Title: Re: Front spring sag?
Post by: lil_Truck on December 29, 2003, 11:32:26 PM
I have the lift the bumper and a 8000i Warn winch on the front.  Plus all the skid sheilds.  

You also have to take into effect tire and rims (the leverage on the front suspention).  I run a 15x8" rim with a 2 1/2" backspacing.  Running Goodyear MTR's 32x11.5R15.

Lastly I've done a lot of Sand Dune ridding.  High speeds, full spring compressions going into hills, and air time at the top with full compression again at landing.

With all those combos, mine had spring sag after 1 1/2 years.