ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum

ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: wildgoody on December 02, 2003, 11:41:46 PM

Title: Full Floating Rear Axle Useing Sidekick Parts !!
Post by: wildgoody on December 02, 2003, 11:41:46 PM
I think I have found the parts to build
a Fullfloater rear axle from SideKick parts !!, the only
custom item would be the double splined axle shafts,
stronger that stockers of coarse. A little more digging
and I might be able to have larger and more spline
axles, side gears and hubs sourced out to build a bullet
proof (at least until Mike gets hold of it  ;) )  rear Axle.

This axle would also have rear hubs for easy towing in
event of a trail failure or just an easy way of towing on
the road.
             
Ohh I forgot the best part, Rear disk brakes too    ;D
Title: Re: Full Floater Useing Sidekick Parts !!
Post by: Mikerpm4x4 on December 03, 2003, 12:52:15 PM
Keep us posted. Id like to see some pics.  
I like your idea except the part about easier trail fixes. Mabey you should just swap in a 9 inch and stop worring about breakage! ;D  

Actually I havent been able to break it but I have bent several axle shafts between the bearing and the rotor.  ??? Time for another upgrade.  ::) I think a set of Moser axles are my next purchase.

Mike
Title: Re: Full Floater Useing Sidekick Parts !!
Post by: wildgoody on December 03, 2003, 01:37:06 PM
9 Inch, that's Ford stuff, not Zuki  ;)
Actually the custom double splined
axles, as strong as chromoly, and the side gears
can be broached to accept larger Dia. axle
shafts, the only thing to research now is the
hubs, and what will fit the zuke spindle and
take a larger shaft with more splines.

Width of the axle assembly is about the same as stock,
within .200 of an inch, location of the disk brake bracket
has yet to be determined, but I think it can be bolted on,
instead of welded, which makes this suitable for a bolt on
kit, totaly cool and easy install, proportioning valve may
need some adjusting to ballance the front to rear ratio, I'm
going to try to have this done before Tiera Del Sol in March,
and I'm going to try to make the Easter Trip to Moab.

;D
Title: Re: Full Floater Useing Sidekick Parts !!
Post by: Mikerpm4x4 on December 03, 2003, 01:47:50 PM
If you make moab during the EJS be sure to hook up with a Zukiworld run. It would be cool to put a face to the rig.

Mike
Title: Re: Full Floater Useing Sidekick Parts !!
Post by: wildgoody on December 03, 2003, 02:44:45 PM
Click on the pic     <----------
That's my ugly mug :P in the drivers seat
Title: Re: Full Floater Useing Sidekick Parts !!
Post by: 1bigtracker on December 04, 2003, 06:52:33 AM
i hope everyone knows that a 9in Ford will eat power out of you engine.  its bigger heavyer it just eats power.  I was going to put them front and rear on my Tracker till i heard this.   lata stu
Title: Re: Full Floater Useing Sidekick Parts !!
Post by: Mikerpm4x4 on December 04, 2003, 08:42:34 AM
Quote
i hope everyone knows that a 9in Ford will eat power out of you engine.  its bigger heavyer it just eats power.  I was going to put them front and rear on my Tracker till i heard this.   lata stu



??? Someone lied to you. A bigger ring gear equals more torque applyed. Would you rather use a 7 inch wrench to break a bolt loose or a 9 inch wrench? I gained power with the swap. Besides, a nine inch barely weighs any more. I couldnt tell which was heavier by carring them around.

Mike
Title: Re: Full Floater Useing Sidekick Parts !!
Post by: brlj on December 04, 2003, 11:05:04 AM
In drag racing it is commonly said that going from a 7.5" rear end to a 9" will cost you some horsepower. If you run the same gear ratio.

With bigger brake drums, axle shafts, ring and pinion, and differential there is alot of unsprung weight there compared to a stock Tracker.

It doesnt take the same amount of horsepower to turn different size rearends. Different transmissions have more or less parasitic loss when you compare them.

Now, if you go from a 5.13 in the Tracker to a 5.89 in a 9" you offset the loss of horsepower with touque multiplication and actually come out ahead in power with this extra multiplication of the 5.89 gears.

If this is wrong, please let me know. I will have to write to the "Professor" and get the real scoop.

Later,
Bill
Title: Re: Full Floater Useing Sidekick Parts !!
Post by: Mikerpm4x4 on December 04, 2003, 11:32:23 AM
I dont know what to tell the professor but I definitely have more power with the nine inch. Without any doubt.

Mike
Title: Re: Full Floater Useing Sidekick Parts !!
Post by: lil_Truck on December 04, 2003, 09:27:29 PM
I think I have it figured out.

Like Mike said a bigger ring with give you more torque out of the rear end.  So it should seem like you have more power.

Now at higher speeds (speeds way beond our Zukis) that larger ring has a larger diameter (out side of the ring measured) and has a longer way to go to make one revalution.  So it's going to take more effert to turn it.

It's kinda like when we put larger tires on our trucks.  At lower speeds you can't notice that much of a difference, but the faster you go the more you notice the difference the larger tires make.  Yes, I know the power to the wheels is different than the input to the R/P.  This is just an example.

And lastly, a larger differential has a larger mass and will take more power rotate at higher speeds (over 100 mph).
Title: Re: Full Floater Useing Sidekick Parts !!
Post by: r0ckstarr79 on December 05, 2003, 12:39:06 AM
Quote



??? Someone lied to you. A bigger ring gear equals more torque applyed. Would you rather use a 7 inch wrench to break a bolt loose or a 9 inch wrench? I gained power with the swap. Besides, a nine inch barely weighs any more. I couldnt tell which was heavier by carring them around.

Mike



I dunno if I read the post right, but did you say you swapped in a 9in rear end? Can you please explain to me how that was done? I have a small block chevy in my samurai and I keep breaking the original suzuki U-joints, driveshafts, and now the rear-end. Any information would be greatly and deeply appreciated.
Title: Re: Full Floater Useing Sidekick Parts !!
Post by: Mr._NSX on December 05, 2003, 04:28:11 AM
Quote



I dunno if I read the post right, but did you say you swapped in a 9in rear end? Can you please explain to me how that was done? I have a small block chevy in my samurai and I keep breaking the original suzuki U-joints, driveshafts, and now the rear-end. Any information would be greatly and deeply appreciated.


Here..... (http://www.zukiworld.com/month_070103/feature_hagen_ford9inch.htm)  of coarse this is a Suzuki Sidekick with coil rear suspension.

Title: Re: Full Floater Useing Sidekick Parts !!
Post by: r0ckstarr79 on December 05, 2003, 06:37:00 AM
Awesome!!!!!!!! Thanks!!!!!!! It should be easier to set one up with leafs for a samurai. I am seriously considering this now. Now if I only knew where to find a 9inch........
Title: Re: Full Floater Useing Sidekick Parts !!
Post by: 1bigtracker on December 05, 2003, 01:36:02 PM
If i'm correct the 66' Bronco is one inch narrower than a 67 to 77 bronco and thats where you will find you donor.  lata stu
Title: Re: Full Floater Useing Sidekick Parts !!
Post by: wildgoody on December 06, 2003, 11:12:57 AM
I was too tired to post this the other night, but I did confirm,
I can use (with some minor mods) Suzuki parts, bolted onto the  
stock, unmodified rear axle, and add a custom double splined  
end axle shaft for a fullfloater. Going to pick up some parts  
tomorrow, and get the mods done to them, then figure out the
axle length, Custom axle shafts are $300-400 per set, I'm going
to see if I can bolt on rear disks with this mod too, looks real doable  

This is a repost from another thread, just trying to keep some
continuity in the information about this Fullfloater Axle buildup.

Darrin
Title: Re: Full Floating Rear Axle Useing Sidekick Parts
Post by: Zukipilot on December 06, 2003, 02:40:53 PM
Look at Hagen's archives. There is an article on the install of his 9" there.
Zig
Title: Re: Full Floating Rear Axle Useing Sidekick Parts
Post by: 1bigtracker on December 08, 2003, 03:16:21 AM
I'm really interrested in the full floating zuki rear.  I would rather keep it zuki then start puting ford and chevy parts in my cute little trucklet.  I'm planing on selling my eclipse and start really building the zuki so i'll have to save some cash for the rear.  I was just going to get one from the junk yard and shave, rotate, truss and disk brake it.  but mabey make it full floating too.  ;D  thanks Wild.  lata stu
Title: Re: Full Floating Rear Axle Useing Sidekick Parts
Post by: wildgoody on December 10, 2003, 07:40:16 AM
If your going to be doing all that work, you
might as well do a floater as well, the biggest
expence is the Axle Shafts, but we can make
some that are bullet proof, say bye bye twisted
axles  ;D , I'm going for some 30 spline and larger
Dia, they will require a larger set of side gears, or
if you go for a ARB you could get the custom fit
side gears from ARB and put them in the locker.
Now a set of hubs to match and you got a bullet
proof rear end, at least until mike gets hold of it.
::)
Title: Re: Full Floating Rear Axle Useing Sidekick Parts
Post by: wildgoody on December 10, 2003, 07:52:49 AM
Ohh BTW I forgot to mention, I think this mod will
work with the same parts on a Sammie Axle too.
 ;D
Title: Re: Full Floating Rear Axle Useing Sidekick Parts
Post by: wildgoody on December 13, 2003, 12:15:32 PM
I ran into a small snag with the larger axle shafts,
turns out the spindles might not have a big enough
Dia. hole to fit too much larger axles, but on the
bright side, the custom axles are much stronger than
the stock ones.

Axles will cost $400 for the pair, and add cost for brackets
for the disks, hubs for the rear, calipers from a saturn and
spindles you about have the total, less than $700 for parts.
Title: Re: Full Floating Rear Axle Useing Sidekick Parts
Post by: Yankee Tim on December 14, 2003, 12:19:43 AM
Since the axles will be custom anyway, add an ARB and use the 27 spline Dana sidegears in it.

In the hubs, use Toyota hubs.  Same hub but a larger spline and diameter.  This should make it bolt-on and use a bigger shaft.
Title: Re: Full Floating Rear Axle Useing Sidekick Parts
Post by: wildgoody on December 14, 2003, 01:46:23 AM


Thanks  Tim,
I was wanting to go to a 30 spline axle,
the axle maker said they pretty much
come in standard dia/spline configuration
so the problem will be the max size dia
for the axle shaft.

Thanks for the heads up on the Dana side gears,
without knowing the max dia I can go I didn't
search out the side gears yet, but the ARB was
one thing I wanted to do, as well as bigger side gears.

How many splines do Toy hubs have?  27?

Darrin
Title: Re: Full Floating Rear Axle Useing Sidekick Parts
Post by: wildgoody on December 23, 2003, 05:26:52 PM
Thanks to member TN_Tracker who posted the link to the
care of lockout hubs, very informative, and a good
thing to know about. According to the article, the torque
IS transfered through the 6 bolts at the base of
the hub, so strong bolts must be used there.
Also the guts of various Aisin hubs like Toyota, Nissan, Isuzu ect.
use are in many cases interchangeable, which for our discussion
about larger axles and full floater upgrades is a good thing.

Turns out Toyota Does use some 30 spline hubs, a perfect
donor hub for the rear of the full floater to be made as strong
as it can be, might even be Mike proof  ;D (shamless jab ;)  )
anyway, great stuff, I would reccomend this article for reading
as it covers how to go about maintaining and rebuilding an
often neglected part of our trucks, but one which if let go
could leave you stuck or even stranded if the hubs fail to lock.

;)
For Your Reading Pleasure........
http://www.off-road.com/toyota/tech/aisin/
Title: Re: Full Floating Rear Axle Useing Sidekick Parts
Post by: Yankee Tim on December 26, 2003, 02:26:42 AM
The tech article says the Toy IFS uses a 26 spline hub.  Is that the same diameter 26 as the Kick uses?  Would make for an easier install, keeping the shaft 26 spline a both ends, but I doubt itwould be that easy, they've gotta be a different diameter.
Title: Re: Full Floating Rear Axle Useing Sidekick Parts
Post by: wildgoody on December 26, 2003, 03:34:42 AM
Well Tim, of the limited amount of what I know
about Axle Shafts, I was told by a guy at Dutchbrothers
that they are a fairly uniform the size to spline ratio,
then he rattled off some sizes and dashed my hopes for
36 spline axle by informing me the opening in the spindle
will only go so big, :(   so I started downsizing to 27s or ???

I don't know how big of an axle can be fit in the spindle, a
little boreing of the opening might work to get one more
spline. I know it doesn't sound like much but 1 more = about
1/8" increase in axle Dia. which means more beef for twistin,
and less snappin.

I'm waiting for some parts now to proceed with the development,
I'll keep posting my findings as they come, I want to go to SJS :)
(EJS) this year, so all you lookie loos can check it out, if I can pull
it off, other wise I might need some spares too  :o  LOL.

Darrin
Title: Re: Full Floating Rear Axle Useing Sidekick Parts
Post by: 1bigtracker on December 27, 2003, 06:01:14 PM
they wild i think you might find this link useful.  http://www.izook.com/tech/samurai/drivetrain/ttfloater/floater.htm  lata stu