ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Technical Discussion - Performance / Modify => Topic started by: bandit86 on December 16, 2003, 12:18:27 PM
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the electric leafblower is fed into the tbi. Suppli will have to be through a 1500 watt power inverter and a cap on the battery to avoid sudden powersurges. squeese trigger, voila, you have boost. lots off idle and low rpm, not so much at high rpm
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Believe it or not somebody beat you to it. There is also a company that takes electric motors with impellors and mount them in a tube. Then they sell it to kids that install it inline of the intake system. They say it does something but it can't be much.
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What if you had a leaf blower for each cylinder????
:P :P :P :P :P
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This is FAH! 87BlackSami, I saw those electric blowers on Ebay also. They were basically marine engine room exhaust fans/blowers.
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I did some research into this a few years ago. You need a huge fan to pass enough air, the power supply would be in the region of KW, so you'd need around 100A to run it, which means bigger alternator, twin batteries and all that nonsense. You do need a big fan otherwise the fan will restrict air flow at higher rpm and loose power. Trouble is where does the power for the fan come from - yep the engine, anyone who runs a winch will know how much power it takes to run a big electrical load. Someone somewhere was claiming a 5% power increase, well I've seen bigger power increases from a change of oil and a clean of the spark plugs.
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exactly. I was leaning towards 120 Amps, hence the 1500W inverter. Some of theese blowers put out an advertised 20 mph wind, some advertise 400cfm. You would not need extra alternators, as this would not run all the time, just like your starter motor, it would be there to get you out of a jam
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What you need is a compressor, not just a blower, 400 CFM
20 MPH, uhh I dunno if it's going to do much for your trouble.
You need PSI and flow, it's called boost, and a leaf blower is
not going to have what you want.
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if someone would donate me a leafblower and lend me an inverter, i would pay for dyno
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what about a gas powered leafblower? A backpack style you can lay on your roof (or hood) route the hose into your snorkel(if you got one)?
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LOL, you guys are STARVED for power aren't you.
COMPRESSOR, not blower, it has to compress the
air, a turbocharger takes a high volume of air and
packs it together, that's why compressed air from
a turbo can be 300F temp, a leaf blower does not
compress, it just blows, like the heater blower in your
car, if you stop the flow, it will not make pressure, on
the other hand, if you block the flow from a turbo it
will compress up to 20-30 PSI, and burn you with the
300F hot air it compressing.
So who want's a Turbo Manifold for your zook, I'll build
it for $300 heavy construction, I have a flange for a 1.6
right now, just needs tubes put on it, and a good used
turbo for another $150, you add the other stuff like
intercooler, aww heck I'll make that too, another $200
So for $650 you can have your Turbo Zook, you add the
plumbing to get the air in, increase fuel and get the
exhaust out the back.
Any Questions ??? I take Pay-Pal ;D
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how about twin gas leaf blowers?
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If I had the money i might take you up on that turbo if bandit didnt want it. Does it affect you fuel economy at all? Are there any negetives to it? How much more power did you get? Thanks
Jacob
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fuel economy is down 3-5 mpg depending on the
weight of your foot. power about 115 Guess |removethispart|@ 3 PSI
boost, Negs, uhh getting it smogged
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What are you doing for fuel while on boost? FMU? What turbo model from what vehicle?
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I would go turbo but hitting it with water would just blow up the turbo so that out. I get the blower thing but it won't work. you need forced induction. if you could make a turbo powered by a 24V motor then you would be in bidness. lata stu
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Oh ya and Wild, I am thinking about making a Street/strip 2WD Tracker with in the next few years so stay around i might need you. and what about getting fuel? are you useing a AFC or somthing? lata stu
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What are you doing for fuel while on boost? FMU? What turbo model from what vehicle?
Increased fuel PSI to 80 with the use of a VW CIS
fuel pump, I played with other pressure switches and
nozzles, but it was too crude for a daily driver.
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Oh ya and Wild, I am thinking about making a Street/strip 2WD Tracker with in the next few years so stay around i might need you.  and what about getting fuel?  are you useing a AFC or somthing?  lata stu
If I ever get the time, which I will now that I'm taking 2 weeks
between quitting my too many hours job, and the new one that
I don't know yet, I have a MegaSquirt EFI computer to drive MPI
injectors, program from your laptop or desktop PC, I'll up the boost
and supliment the stock EFI Computer for boosted conditions.
The Turbo came from a Mazda MX3 Turbo 85 or 86 I think,
Subaru uses the same family, looks identical but it could be
different internaly in the pin wheels and housings, I might get
one of those and see what I can do once I have my EFI on it.
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I see they make super chargers for the carb Sami's. Has anyone checked them out to see if they are able to use them on the 1.6L ?
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The supercharger could work on a 1.6, should bolt right up but you'd still need to run a sammy carb or the like to feed it.
Might be able to use something like a Holley ProJection system to feed it but that's a good 800 or so bucks right there on top of the cost of the blower. Don't get me wrong, supercharging can work ok, but for better results you'd want a centrifugal compressor style like a Paxton that mounts like an alternator so that you can run the output from it through an intercooler just like a turbo. This would be a blow through rather than a draw through system which is a better way to do it anyway. The biggest problem with superchargers is that it's just flat out going to cost you more. Finding a supercharger that will fit from a junkyard is basically impossible. You might get lucky but chances are someone that's got one on their car isn't going to send the car to the junkyard with the supercharger still on it. There are a few cars out there that use the roots style blower but most of the ones I can think of are a "V" engine configuration and adapting it to an inline four would be tough to do.
Turbo's on the other hand are easily available because they're OEM parts on so many vehicles. Just get a header fabbed with an appropriate flange and you're well on your way. Also the real beauty of a turbo is that it's basically harnessing the waste heat energy of your exhaust that otherwise just contributes to pollution to create the power while a supercharger is the engines motion to pressurize the intake charge which means it's taking away power to make it (law of diminishing returns in action). This isn't to say that you're not loading down an engine slightly with a turbo either since it does restrict the exhaust but the drain is much less for the same amount of air compression. The minor downside is that you may slightly lack for boost at low RPM's compared to a supercharger with a turbo, but overall it's a much more efficient way to do things. For an offroad vehicle the low RPM power is definitely a concern so to overcome that you're going to want a smaller turbo that produces boost quickly. Not necessarily bad but the drawback is that this will limit the overall power output. Can't have your cake and eat it too sort of thing there.
The sheer number of turbocharged OEM applications compared to supercharged OEM applications tells me which is the smarter way to go as the cost differences to an auto manufacturer would be pretty negligible between the two systems. Turbo might even cost slightly more in fact since the supercharger doesn't have to contend with the thermal demands on the exhaust side which requires more specialized materials and engineering.
Another source to look at for a turbo that's probably about the right size would be a Nissan 200SX turbo circa 1984-1986. I see those in junkyards with a good deal of frequency. I believe they're a Garrett T25 with the rotten old integral wastgate but since none of us here contemplating a turbo are going for huge amounts of boost it's quite adequate for the job. It's mounted on the drivers side like our exhaust is so fitting it should be slightly easier. Something like a 4cyl Saab or Volvo is a good place to look too but I think the turbos on those might be a bit on the big side (Probably a T3). Also look at some of the Mitsubishi turbos such as the stock ones on the Eclipses/Talons. They get upgraded to big ones by those guys enough that finding a base one is pretty easy and inexpensive.
You would need a gasket kit from somewhere like turbonetics for the compressor side as well as the turbine side to do it, but you can pretty much rotate the snails so the input and output point where you need them to on any turbo so if you see one on a small 4 cyl car that looks like a good option don't necessarily rule it out just because of the angle the outputs are currently at. The main concern is just keeping the center bearing section in the correct orientation for oil (and water if it's got a water cooled bearing section which is definitely a good thing to look for as well) to flow through it properly.
Also, I'm just curious Wildgoody, but why are you keeping the stock computer at all when you get the 'squirt in there? It should be able to accomodate the increased fuel supply under boost without any problems at all. Just seems like trying to use both is adding a bunch of unnecessary complexity to the design which is mainly why I ask.
I decided to hold off on getting a Megasquirt since they announced the UltraMegasquirt which will also have built in ignition control. (Could do a Megasquirt'n'spark I guess but I like the all in one arangement they're working on with the Ultra).
Anyway for a good turbo reference (arguably one of the best in many people's opinion) check out Maximum Boost by Corky Bell. It's good stuff and Corky tends to be a bit opinionated in the old grumpy guy who really knows what the hell he's talking about sort of way.
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Cal-mini used to make them for 1.6 about a year ago. I bet they might still have one sitting on a shelf somwhere. lata stu
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I find the first part of this thread funny. An electric fan inside your air intake tube is going to make power? If anything, I would think that it would restrict air flow. I honestly do not see a hp gain off of it... The real way to make some serious power gains is with 3 choices....
1. Bigger motor
2. Forced induction
3. Both
lol
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No i think your wrong Rockstarr, the fan will make the intake act like a vacuum cleaner and suck air thought the air filter and down the intake. I just don't think it would be worth it. what about cry-o-2 system. It uses CO2 to chill the air going past a bulb in the air tube. lata stu
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Yeah the electric fan is just some crook (for lack of a more appropriate term that might go against the rules on the board here but it starts with the letter A) trying to con people into thinking they're getting a cheap add-on that's going to give them something for nothing.
Obviously enough people fall for it as those things have been selling on ebay for years and the same question has come up on just about every automotive forum I look at.
As the old saying goes, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
In case you're not just being sarcastic 1bigtracker, it's not that it couldn't help pull air in, but more the case that something that small isn't going to move enough air in CFM to overcome the fact that by its very nature it has to restrict free flow of air somewhat to work and then overcome that restriction before it begins to add to the airflow.
Cooling the Intake charge helps and theoretically the CO2 thing could work, but would it work well enough to justify it's cost? Doubt it, not on a normally aspirated car, I could see possibly using it as a refrigeration type system on the intercooler on a turbo car. The problem more than anything with the bulb aspect is that to have enough surface area to significantly cool the intake charge, it's would have to restrict the flow of air and using some little piece you put in your intake manifold you'd probably be lucky to drop more than a degree or two on the intake charge. Even if you went with the intercooler "refrigerator" setup on a turbo setup it's probably more expense and complexity than it's worth.
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use propane to cool intake air. when propane comes out from a pressurised container, it hits as minus 44 deg celsius. that will cool nicely, make your engine operate more efficiently, increase your fuel economy.
I never said anything about that ZIP little cooling fan crap. That is plain retarded. I said leaf blower, just to clear things up.
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No offense to 1bigtracker, but im stickin with the best route for more power would be to just add a turbo... Even a crappy homemade do it yourself kit with a junkyard spool off of an old Saab or Datsun would give way more noticable power then the electric fan in the intake tube.......
the only replacement for displacement is forced induction.
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somone has already made the CO2 kit.  I found it in Summit Sport Compact.  After its all done and installed it would be about 500 to 600 bucks.  I don't know what temp it is so propane might be colder.  but what about safty?
 P.S. Rockstarr , I don't think any of us try to offened each other so its cool.  lata stu
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Just shoot the propane into your intake, it's flammable but so's gasoline ;D. Actually running on propane only wouldn't be all bad it's a pain to make your own conversion and I wish I could find some more information on converting to propane multiport injection style rather than the more commonly seen carb style propane conversions. LPG is like 114 octane which if you're running a turbo you can see how that would equate to running some silly high amounts of boost. Even more so when you factor in the cooling from the compressed gas expanding for a nice cool intake charge.
Really there's only three problems. The first is the cost involved, the second is the drawback that propane has a little bit less energy output than gasoline though so actually a straight conversion would probably lose a little power in exchange for running much cleaner and probably exempting you from smog checks in most big cities. The last is that it costs a little more than gas and generally getting a fill up with propane can be a pain to get done. A lot of the gas stations that sell propane will only sell it during the times they have more than one person there. You go to fill up in the middle of the night and it just aint happening. (ran into this with my barbecue a few times)
You could possibly use forklift style replaceable propane tanks I guess, not sure if that's DOT legal of course.
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no, not convert to propane. propane injection. further up, like just this side of the air filter, wouls allow the intake air to cool down nicely. cheapoer then the co2.... wait a minute, is that not carbon oxide? I dont think it is flammable. Anyways, its like propane injection on diesels, right into the mixture. all you need is a tank, some bbq regulators and hoses.
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Could work with CO2 but CO2's an inert gas which probably would hurt comustion efficiency whereas the propane is a fuel. The propane might merit some experementation though. Worst case you'd raise the octane and be running a smidge rich but if you didn't shoot too much in there it probably could work. Besides, you think propane's bad to get a hold of in a pinch, CO2's going to be a whole lot worse. Only easy place to get it cheap that I know of is welding supply places and they tend to adhere to the 8-5 Monday through Friday schedule in my parts. There's also paintball stores, but considering they get 5 bucks for a 20 oz fill that's a rip off. Also CO2 needs a big heavy tank with a regulator which I certainly don't want to put in my tracker, The less weight I put on it the better.
I believe the propane injection on diesels works more like nitrous does on a gasoline engine by acting as a combustion catalyst instead of simply cooling the intake charge and adding a little more fuel to the mixture.
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Also to pick up some horsepower with out spending alot of cash, read this article from Overboost, its got some good tips.
http://www.overboost.com/story.asp?id=1094
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The CO2 thing is there is a bulb(like a light bulb) placed in the intake. when air goes past it it chills it. well anyway i'm thinking about a little nitrous just for fun. lata stu
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Z, the reason I wanted to retain the stock EFI Computer
is the wireing is all in there and inter connected to the
Trans, Tach, distributor... Plus all I need is to suppliment
the boost side of the equasion, leaving the stock EFI to
handle the smog side, also If I ever have to take the
turbo off to get it to pass smog, I won't have too much
extra work to do, Damn smog nazzies.
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I'd love a turbo, but with all the water and mud here in Michigan, I don't think it would last long.
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Mounted high, the water and mud is not a problem,
if the water gets that high, it's comming in the windows.
;)
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thats why i drive with them up! :) plus no mud in the eye, and we all know that stings :P