ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: zaggy on July 05, 2005, 04:32:17 AM
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  Just got the project truck in the shop....
Thought you might enjoy the pics
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/track.JPG)
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/track2.JPG)
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/bike.JPG)
Yeah even the bike is a Suzuki...........
It's an automatic, auto locking hubs and a liberal dose of rust........bad enough tonights project is checking it over to make sure the strut towers are ok.
Thanks again James
Zag
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Man, that's what I call a CLEAN Trackick.
If you wanna see rusty, just take a peep at mine:
http://www.omghi2.us/april05/02.rustremoval.jpg
http://www.omghi2.us/april05/03.side.jpg
;D ;D
EDIT: Just saw the bike pic, that's real similar to some of the bikes I have... Mine are TS185, TS250 and TS400, all of the 1974 year as far as I can tell :)
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I'd don't know how far behind I am......
As long as the front strut towers and the windshield posts are good I'll save it........for what I want to do those are the 2 places I need it to be saveable.......
I've got all the parts to repair the rest and the roll cage will give it the strength.
Zag
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Hay zaggy that is the top that i want for my kick, the backwindows can come out :( some people ar just so lucky
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You're welcome Zag ;D As long as I get a ride in it when its done I'll be happy ;)
Hey cool little bike...its the one you mentioned yesterday? I damn near lost my KLR this morning...heading down hwy 2 about 70MPH passing a semi the rear tube decided it was a good time to expel all of its air at one time....not fun :o
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Prd2BCdn
I guareentee when it's done you will get a ride so you can tell the guys on the board how it works.
To bad about the bike, I know how scary that can be.
Zag
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The Plan..............
The RallyKick is going to be built to be:
a) Daily Driver
b) Run Sports Car Club autoslalom events (Solo 1/2)
c) Run the Spring Pro Rallies here in Alberta
d) Be a fast trail runner for playing around
e) Mild 4X4 stuff (better than a Jeep)
f)  Look like a Paris-Dakar Rally machine/Baja pre-runner
To accomplish the objectives:
- Body repairs to be safe and strong, DIY
- Roll cage, road race style, DIY
- Interior, gutted and Rhino linered, DIY
- Racing buckets & 4 point harnesses, already have
- 4dr front bumper for bottom feeder cooling, DIY
- Possible Roo Bar
- P205-60-15 M&S tires (H-Rated), already have
- Lowered about 5" overall (Suspension and Tires), DIY
- Front and rear suspension handling mods, DIY
- 1.6/8v we built on "do it yerelf engine build", Done
- I think I'm gonna try a Doug Thorley header if I can't
 find a used one, Maybe I should try building one?
- Full 2 1/8" exhaust front to rear, Turbo muffler, DIY
- Custom induction, haven't figured it out yet, DIY
 (maybe a TPI sytem?)
- Stock 5spd and t/case, already have
- 4.62:1 front and rears, already have
- Full skid plates front to rear, DIY
  I'm thinking I'll take lots of pics seeing as I'm getting better with the camera and show all the steps so everyone can steal what they want from the build.
Step One...Tear down and evaluate
What do you guys think of the project?
Zag
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Lowering, while good for the slolem deal doesn't seem like it would be too awesome for the rally side of things... Trackers don't have too much ground clearance to begin with, and taking away 5" seems like it would make it scrape pretty easily :-/
I still think it sounds kickass, though. :)
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Prd2BCdn
I guareentee when it's done you will get a ride so you can tell the guys on the board how it works.
To bad about the bike, I know how scary that can be.
Zag
COOL ;D Let me know if you'd like me to come over to help out.
It may be scary enough too consider getting out motorcycles...I've skidded down hwy2 before and this one was another close call...plus I was t-boned once by an SUV when I was on a motorcycle...the spidey senses are tingling at the moment ;)
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Explosivo
  When I used to run in this type of event we wanted about 6-7" of clearance to keep the C of G low but have enough travel to miss most of the stuff. The stuff we didn't miss...that's what the skid plates are for.
  The suspension will be modified to limit body roll but give as much controlled wheel travel as possible.
  ÂÂ
  But I guess we will find out...........
Zag
Prd2BCdn
  I know what you mean about the bikes, thats why I don't ride on the street anymore.....but if I'm wrong on the RallyKick suspension I can still go offroading with the Bike.
  I'll let you know how things are going.....
Zag
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Sounds like fun!
A 2dr kick as a rally machine is a great idea.
I hope that it's not too top heavy as they generally are not as short as other rally-type cars.
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Natebert.....
Back when I used to do this stuff seriously the hot ride was the old 68-73 Datsun 510, I don't think the Kick can be any worse than one of those after it was raised for Rally work (about 3-4")....
By lowering the Kick I should wind up with about 7" to the rocker as I measure it on the shop floor. Stiff shocks, soft (relatively) springs and big sway bars and roll limiters shop give plenty of wheel travel for good control and handling. If I'm wrong I can always raise it back up.........
This littlekick is also going on a major weight reduction program and have the battery and spare tire moved to the center of the rear body, balance.
The skid plates are the key to the trail work, if you don't have to worry about damaging the bottom you can skip over most stuff.
It's going to be a series of compromises, but when done it has to be better than that RAV4 on the Watercooler, or a Jeep Liberty.
Zag
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getting calmini's sway bar setup would make it handle better. then just leave the suspension stock, put some good struts and shocks, some widers tires, and your done.
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What did you pay for the truck?
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Agent_Orange
I'm going with sway bars but am going to build my own, front and rear, cause I'm cheap and I can (this has to be a mega low buck project). But it will still need lowered to get to a competitive handling level. It's a compromise.
What's neat is if I present this right you guys can take what you want from the build (ie: sway bars) and DIY, but not have to copy everything I'm doing. Sort of a steal what you like idea.
The vehicles I will compete against in solo and rally are newer more sophisticated cars with highly modified suspensions. I think the RallyKick can be competitive because of:
- It's short wheel base
- AWD
- Modified weight distribution
- Experienced driver
I don't expect it to be a region champ, but I do expect it to do well and open some eyes.
- For the kind of mild 4X4 stuff I do (camping, trails,
messing around it should still be a better 4X4 than the
Rav4 in the watercooler...at a fraction of the cost.
Keith
Sorry guy I never kiss and tell, but trust me it was very inexpensive.
Zag
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What did you pay for the truck?
Search through some of Zag's and my posts and you'll find that answer ;)
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hey paid one meeeeeeeeliiooooooooon dollars :D ;D
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Sorry I haven't posted on this lately
Tooooo busy at work, hope to catch up this weekend.
Zag
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Catch up on work or posts ???
;)
Wild
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Yes
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LOL the universal answer "yes" LOL
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Quote from: http://www.zukiworld.com/cgi/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=chitchat;action=display;num=1118942113
1. Yes and No are perfectly acceptable answers to almost every question.
;D
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...By lowering the Kick I should wind up with about 7" to the rocker as I measure it on the shop floor...
Zag
What rocker?? it looks like they're almost gone from the pic. Man, you are starting with quite the pile. Free though, I guess you get what you pay for, huh. You ought to see the Sammi I just picked up for parts. If it wasn't a Zuk I would've been embarassed to have it on my trailer. 8)
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Ah come on........
It's got most of a rocker on one side
Zag
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Yeah, most zuks up my way have "most" or "some" of their rockers left, I know what you have to work with. Oh to just find one Sammi with ALL of a rocker. :-/
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my tintop has all its rockers :P :P ;D
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/realredwagon/DSCN0928.jpg)
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Zag,
My suggestions ...
Get the lowest backspace wheels you can. This will do too things. First increase the trackwidth, but more for your purposes, increase the "purchase" on the front IFS. This should result in some "lowering" with the stock springs (in fact probably just enough). I'm talking 2" backspace on 15x7's (or 15x8's depending on the tire you plan to run). Possibly combined with wheel spacers ...
Obviously you'll be stressing the bearings, but these rigs are light enuf, it may just become a regular maintenance item.
(might even just try turning the stock wheels inside out) ...
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(might even just try turning the stock wheels inside out) ...
I think I saw pics here of someone doing that with Samurai wheels...anyone remember that?
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It didn't work when we tried it with a Festiva! ;D ;) ;D
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 my tintop has all its rockers :P :P ;D
And no steering, Shut it up you!! Christopher L-L-Loyd
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LOL the universal answer "yes" LOL
Waiter, "Would you like smoking or none smoking."
Me, "Yes."
Waiter starts to lead us god knows where then stops turns around and gives me the WTF ??? puzzled look. Try it the next time you go to a resturant ;D.
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Well guys
Finished going over the project Kick last night with a chisel and a screwdriver and I'm gonna have to pause for reflection, the rust is worse than I thought
Windshield structure is toast, (1) inner strut tower requires major repair, plus the 1/4's and rockers...deep thinkin time.
Zag
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are you anywhere near Vermont, in the U.S? i know a guy that might give you a few.
stu
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No darnit
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Zag
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Well thanks to Prd2BCdn once again....
The original 2dr is just too far down the road for a easy repair on the
important inner structure so I was going to have to scrap the plan and
save the parts while I searched for another shell.
Prd2BCdn turned me on to a guy that was getting rid of a Kick with a blown
5Speed and some other issues but the shell sounded solid enough for what I
wanted to do........well I went and looked at it tonite, and bought it.
The problem........it's a four door, it's also the only 4dr 1.6/8v I've ever seen
in Canada. It's got some rust but nothing structural, the engine is toast (ah shucks
I'll have to replace it) and the trans t/case are done (but I have those). All the suspension
and goodies I have been piling up will fit as will the wheels and tires
But a 4dr RallyKick..............I don't know? What do you guys think?
Zag
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4dr WRC cars seem comon enough...longer wheelbase will be a tad better for stability...hmmm, just thinking what a dropped 4dr would look like with a chop top 8)
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(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/4dr%20BL%20leftlowerd.JPG)
Best I can do ;) ;D
4dr prerunner would be cool and give you more space for hauling ;D
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With the right wheel/tire combo that'd look pretty cool there HotRod ;)
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Now thaat's neat.....
Zag
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I'll post pics of the new ride when it gets to the shop.........
But after chatting with the wife, sleeping on it and then lookin at the coooool chop top pics here's what I'm thinkin.
*Get it workin*
- Gonna get it here and check it over throughly before I open my mouth and insert my foot.
- Swap in engine from original project and 5 spd I have here
- Other repairs as needed. (like 4 tires the same size), make it safe to drive.
*Base line performance tests*
- 0 to 50km (sec)
- 1/4 mile
- gas mileage
*Stage One* Basic Bolt ons
(Stuff anyone can do!)
- Turbo muffler installed on stock exhaust with adapter (DIY)
- 1" TBI Spacer
- Low restriction Aircleaner/Filter
- Underdrive crank pulley
*Re test as above*
*Stage Two* Minor sublet/Mechanical skill
(Stuff for the Basic Backyard mechanic)
- Header
- 2 1/8 Exhaust with Turbo style muffler
- 2" TBI Spacer
- Retarded cam pulley (approx 6 degrees)
*Re test as above*
*Stage Three* Internal, engine build up
(Stuff for the Good Backyard mechanic)
- Switch to "do it yerself engine"
- 226/395 camshaft, no retard on cam gear
- Other accessories as above
*Re test as above*
*Stage Four*
- Clean up body work (functional and tolerable not show)
- Add fender flares (to hide rear wheel arch rust)
- Flexible plastic front airdam with aluminum strap reinforcements (they bend back into place!)
- Cold Air induction scoop. With block off plate for Alberta winters
- DIY paint job (repaint Black) and Zukiworld Windshield decal
- Tint windows
*Stage Five*
- Swap 5.12 gears for stock 5.38 gears
- Custom wheels, slightly wider track (fill the flares)
- 205-60-15 tires (same effective gearing as stock w 5.38's), lowers 1.5" approx
- Lowered another 3-3.5" by modifiying springs
- KYB gas shocks all around
- DIY front and rear sway bar system
- Skid plates, engine, tranny, tank
Not as radical as I wanted to do but...
Lets me test all the bits I've been working on.......
I can justify as daily driver.......
Still can go trail runnin.....
Cool lookin Shop Truck for my business.....
Total lowering about 3.5- 4" around 8" to the rocker panel
HP, I'll find out for sure, but guess around a 100hp
Want to keep weight pretty close to stock
What do ya think guys?
Zag
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Loosing the rear doors alltogether and paneling them with seetmetal to lose weight? Kinda Dakar style.
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Remember that these early 4 doors have 5.38 axle gears not 5.13. At least that is what I have been told. I forgot to check when I had the rear third out for the locker. Does retarding the timing belt help much?
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I did a bunch of testing on this on another thread"hi perf engine glitch"
1 tooth retard sharpened the engine up noticably on the test stand, and someone else
reported similar results.
Zag
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Oh yeah
Thanks for reminding me on the axle ratio, I usally check before opening my mouth but you were right so I've adjusted my post.
Zag
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how far are you going to gut it out?
stu
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Not too far, gonna keep it as a reasonable driver...
Zag
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- Swap 5.12 gears for stock 5.38 gears
Dibs on the 5.38's (if that's what it really has) ... I'm willing to wager it's got 5.12's already tho ...
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I checked the interchange and it should be 5.38's as it is an 8v not a 16v and I will remember yer dibs
Zag
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You sure you wanna drop 3.5 inchs? mine is dropped two and its off road clearence is none. And the ride while it handles awsome with very little if at all body roll. It rides worse then a dune buggy at rail road track and bumps i hit the brake like its my life. I would suggest modifying the supsension at in way it lowered it but didn't take away travel. I can post picture of my springs but they sit with a 1/2 inch of up travel. Calmini used to make a kit that used a droped a arm in front to give travel.
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The difference in tire size makes up almost 1/2 the drop so it shouldn't be too bad.
The rest will come from modifying the springs and perches, the goal is to keep close to orignial suspension travel, but lower the c of g.
Right now the unit sits at 12" to the rocker (measured in the shop), I want to get as close to 8" as I can.
Zag
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I'll have to measure but my rocker panel i think sits at 8. I run a 225 30 20 tire which i smaller then stock it sit around 26 inchs tall.
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The 205-60-15 tires work out to 25.4 tall (confirmed with a tape.so I think i should be ok.
The thicker sidewall will give a much better ride quality.
Zag
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Any other thoughts on the latest plann guys?
Whattya think of the rig?
Zag
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Silver Sam in NC is doing a similar Kick for Rally events.
He's an older guy, X bike road racer & Trials guy.
He doesn't post much but if I get any up dates I'll pass them on.
I like the ideia. For street racing, I think the kick is to short a run on the tranny, Have to shift too often. Maybe a turbo and steeper gear would help. Not sure about rally, No exp. Sounds like fun...
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Shiftin
Yeah I figure that there will be a pile of shiftin but Lord Knows I like it
Zag
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Speakin of shiftin, blew the clutch last night starting starting the acceleration test...
The more you rush the longer it takes
Zag
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Here we are..........
- Engine installed and tuned up
- Trans/t-case installed
- Brakes fixed
- Suspension and steereing checked
- 4 good used tires same size
- clutch fixed, should'a done it right the first time
Base acceleration tests done........
So what you think so far?
Zag
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zag,
for a rally runner, I expect you'll have to checkout the various bushings (steering, a-arms, 3link in the rear). Dunno bout yours, but my bushings are REAL loose. It's not too bad (road manners are tolerable, and being loose on a trail isn't a bad thing). For a rally run, I'd want ZERO play in the steering, and NO play in the suspension either ...
If you find the sizes for the various pieces let us know ... I expect to replace some bushings soon in mine ...
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Actually
After inspecting the suspension it's all in surprisingly good condition, it has definitely not been off road much and the guy that had it before now spent some money keeping it up.
For this project I'm going to leave the stock bushings in, if i find any that need replacedI will replace with stock.
This unit is still going to be a street driver and by it's nature can't be a world beater, I just want to be a little different and have some fun.
Zag
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mine is so loose it it almost scary ...
2-3" turn on the steering wheel before it chnages any significant direction. I can push sideways on the rear bumber and get a 2-3" shimmy going really easy ...
I think this girl has been used more that a 5$ whore (and just as loose) :)
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No mine is tight!!!! and solid
- Steering play is like new.pwer steering too!
- All suspension bushing near 0 play..within factory specs
Too bad the body isn't as good as the mechanicals are now....
Zag
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The joys of projects....
- Trying to get access to a lathe to build the underdrive pulley, what a PITA, can't afford the
$60-$75 hr the machine shops are charging and my machinist buddy went to Germany for 2
month.
- Working out the lowering mods is also becoming a chore, I want more drop and more travel
than anyone appears to have done before....i really want about 2"-3" of actual suspension
drop, but I want at least stock travel. Shortening the strut shafts to keep them from
bottoming is not a problem, but the front geometery is, may have to make new lowers or a
similar mod...but I will figure it out.
I now completely understand why you guys are going up instead of down...it's easier! On a different vein, as I dig into the suspension design and geometery the Sidekick is more impressive than I used to think. It's solid and robust (comparatively), and the geometery in the rear and the basic design is very similar to the live axle Alfa Romeos, the front is fairly good by small car standards, no wonder they handle so well for a little 4X4!
The more I work on these little tanks the more I like them...
Zag
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I agree that the stock geometry is dang good. The 3-link rear is well setup (needs some tweaks when lifting, but takes 2" without much walkunder).
I still say the best "budget" drop would be ...
1) Increase the track width. This will lower the front (dunno how much). The increase in track width cause greater forces on the stock springs causing them to compress. You keep the same travel (stock has 2" extra up).
2) Cut rear springs. This will lower it and also increase the spring rate.
Cost of this is minimal (might need 2" BS 15x7 wheels), will lower it, and should stiffen the rear.
Another thing to consider to lower the COG, is to drop the front frame (aka do the reverse of the frame mods done for project rockstar). This would lower the entire front end (including the engine). A 2" front drop would maintain the front geometry (which IMO is fairly stiff), lower the COG, and then just have to play with the rear (e.g. spring cut).
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Hey Snofalls
Gonna try the front track increase, doesn't matter if it lowers it I want to reduce the understeer and widening the track helps with that. I will let you know if it helps lower it though.
I really don't want to start choppin the frame if I can help it, this is supposed to be an easy cheap, project (ya right)
I'll try to keep everyone posted on what works.
Zag
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zag,
Take a look at the frame lowering thing ... I know cutting into the frame sounds daunting, but it's VERY cheapo 2" lowering that also brings down the COG.
The front C is already welded to the rear frame. Notch out at that point enuf to lower the front C 2". The front body mounts will need 2" spacers, but the brakes, steering etc will all still reach (all the 2" body lifts prove that). The tcase mount will need a drop too, but that shouldn't be to big a fab issue (aka drop/flip the mounts on the frame).
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I'll take a look when I bring it in the shop next.....i was trying to make this an easy copy for anewbie though....but I keep and open mind.
Zag
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Zag may I suggest that you do all your performance mods before swapping the diff ratios. Keeping the 5.38's which are hard to find may not be a bad thing as I would suggest a small drop in top speed for the gains in acceleration may be a good trade off. If you find that you need to eventually go to 5.12's then there will be plenty of takers for the swap. Another reason is that if you do want to do some trail running then more ground clearance is desirable so having a second set of say 235/75R15 muddies will be a nice simple swap and the 5.38's will be more desirable, trust me.
When you talk about dropping it with respect to the sills maybe you should be thinking more in terms of with measuring with respect to the chassis as that is your real ground clearance and is more relevant to your CoG due to its inherent weight. Calmini had a lowering kit using a drop control arm kit and replacement rear springs. You can see it here http://www.hawksuzukiparts.com/ They also do the front and rear sway bar kit to give you an idea on sizing. The stock rubber on these rigs is 27.1" and you're talking about going to 25.4" which is 1.6" difference and will only lower it by 0.8".
On the suspension front FYI when I first lifted mine I used the Old Man Emu kit and actually handled and rode better than stock. It's amazing what the right spring rates and valving will do for handling even when lifted. As you've said you want to change these maybe do your sway bars first and then see what you've got before doing the next mods. Also have a think about a strut brace to tighten up your front end.
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Oh yeah, you could pick up a strut brace of a wrecked Sport that could be modified to fit. An LSD wouldn't be a bad item to put on your shopping list down the track for the type of use you're talking about.
The one problem I see is that the setups for slalom/tarmac and for dirt/gravel rallying are quite different in their requirements and maybe by using different swaybars and or disconnects and adjustable shocks you can tune to some degree for this. Just thinking out aloud. Even hunting around for some old 6" or 7" rims for different rubber for each purpose. I know it all costs but the differences could be worth the effort. Possibly even some on here who might have things you want that deals could be done with for your intakes or spacers etc.
By the way do you have Lada 4x4's up there? Once considered using the t-case from one (probably the best part of the car) as they are divorced and center output but would need a little clocking, in a dual t-case setup. The high ratio would have compensated nicely for 32"-33" rubber and would have ended up with fulltime 4x4 and would have used a couple of solenoids for high /low and locked/unlocked. Put that with your 4.6's or or even some 4.3's and you would have a fulltime 4x4 with the right high range gearing and great low range choices ( 2.3 + 1.8 ) for crawling ;D
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Over here Suzuki sold a lowered version of the Track/Kick. The Fatboy was around 2" lower and had 10" wide alloys, drove like a go-kart, lol. The springs still come up on ebay from time to time but I think CJ is right, you should do the sway bars first, that will have a big effect on what spring ratings you need. The camber correction bolts can be used to restore the front geometry. Increasing the track makes a big difference, mine understeered horribly with the 2" lift and no sway bar. 1 1/2" wheel spacers brought it back to near stock
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Rhinoman/CJ
Thanks I really appreciate the input........
The suspension and gearing will stay stock until all the performance modifications are done to the engine, I really need to keep them consistant to get good results on the engine changes.
CJ, I use the rocker measurement because its an easy one to take. I'm working with one of the local ProRally guys from the CarClub I used to be with on the suspension mods and the lowest point clearance from the chassis is targeted at 6" whick translates to 8"-9" at the rocker.
Surprisingly the ProRally cars do real well here in the Slalom series. A big chunck of it is driving style....you have to be alot more agressive with the higher stiffer suspensions and you have to be what we used to call a bit of a butcher (like to get the vehicle all bent out of shape and sliding) as opposed to the real low sticky cars that reward a verey precise style. Seeing as I used to have a rep of being a real butcher I think we will do ok. I will have a seperate set of tires for Slalom (P195-50-15's, already have a good used set).
Also, I'm not worried about the ground clearnace for two reasons
1) The kind of trial stuff I do is pretty mild compared to you guys
2) I'm going to Armor the bottom of this thing like a tank, front to rear
The reason I will eventually swap to the 5.12's is to keep the same effective gearing as the 5.38's with the shorter tires....ProRally is closed course like they do in Europe and I will need the speed.
Strut brace is a really good idea and I have been thinking of making one, possibly tied to the cage like we used to do with road racers.
Sway bars I'm building will be adjustable, and auxillary that adds to the front and the rear will work off the control arms. Thats for the tips to check out sizing though.
Rhinoman
Thats for the tip on the FatBoy, we never got that one here and I appreciate the input on the spacers...nice to know I'm on the right track.
The limited slip is just not in the budget for now but it sure would be nice.
Thanks again for all the input guys I really appreciate it.
When it's all done and I've run a season I'll probly be back to find out how to lift and get serious about off road....us old guys get bored easy.
Zag
Yes we have Lada's here, they are getting rare but are still around and that t/c does look interesting.
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what is a lada?
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Lada........
   Russian built version of FIAT vehicles
- Lada 1500S was a Russian copy of a Fiat 125
- Lada Niva was a 4X4 based on a Fiat military vehicle.
 Little bigger than a SideKick with a 1500 SOHC, 5spd
 16" wheels......body and suspension built like a tank.
 Engine and Trans.....sucks and can't get parts easy
 anymore........apparently very capable off road when
 they were running.
Zag
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Zag unless you guys got something really different I think you probably meant 124 not 127. It was a Fiat design originally in 1966 I think. A lot of the same stuff went into the Niva and guys used to pull the original engine and replace it with a Fiat twincam for more go. Yeah, agricultural is the way to describe them and I think the main tool to carry was a hammer. Good heating though for those cold Russian winters but they certainly were not a fine piece of automotive engineering ::) The heated rear window was to keep your hands warm when pushing them ;) Like I said about the only good part is the t-case which is actually pretty rugged and reliable and has been used in all sorts of rigs. With a couple of switches to operate solenoids for the high/low and lock/unlock it wouldn't be a bad way to get fulltime 4wd and some more gearing. I've seen them here for $100-150 Pacific Pesos and can still pick up parts for them. Even found someone who was selling brand new t-cases.
All the lowered Kicks I've heard of seem to have a 2" drop so that seems pretty standard and seeing as Suzuki did the same drop in the UK I would suppose that would be a good starting point. Looking forward to seeing it progress. Something to look at is improving the uptravel in the front as it is quite limited at the moment and there is room in both in the strut and cv angle to cope with it and as you are going to run small rubber it will still be able to stuff in there.
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Hi CJ
   Actually I meant the Fiat 125, it was a model they didn't export...in effect a 124 with a big trunk...all the mechanical swaps. Guy here in Edmonton has one that has a 2.0L Twin Cam with twin 45DCOE Webers and all the trick Fiat/Abarth engine and suspension goodies. The only thing that makes you look is the 15" BBS wheels. He even kept all the Lada emblems.
   Scares the snot right outta the Ricer kids...they can't believe that got hammered by a Lada.
LMAO
   I appreciate what you're saying about the suspension travel, I'm trying to maintain at least stock up and down....but first I have to lick my wounds as I damaged the engine in the airplane tonite...got the details on another post.
A slightly depressed
Zag
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Oooops
   Hey CJ, I dig screw up my Fiat designations...I should've said 125 (124 with a big trunk) not 127 (Little FWD beast). I corrected my posts.
Sorry
Zag
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Yep 124/125 variants. Always kind of liked the Abarth 131 Rally cars, they were 8)
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The Fiat Abarth 131..I have the original Road&Track Road Test at home in the Library..very cool, but the Lancia Stratos....quickest of the pre-Quattro's
Zag
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Mmmm... Stratos, I liked those. Had ideas once of doing a budget Stratos by dropping a 2.0 DOHC into an X/19 along with some other mods but ended up playing with Alfa's instead.
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Alfa's..........
I've got a 1970 1750 GTV...been in the family since new (Older brother bought it new).
Beautiful car!
Zag
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The 1750 GTV was a better car than the 2000 I thought. Still have a soft spot for that model.
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Yeah me too
   Mine is all stored away till I have time for it..mechanical is all redone but the body and interior is due. The plan is one of my kids will get it.
Zag
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Sorry Guys
Project RallyKick and my 2.0/1.6 conversion are on indefinite hold due to business considerations.
I will get back to them but......first things first
Thanks
Zag
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I hope to be able to restart this project in the next couple of weeks...
Are you guys still interested?
Zag
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I follow this project closely, even if I haven't posted any comments. Still new to the tracker thing... :-X
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So, like has everyone lost interest except me and MatTracker?
Zag
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I was watching it too. But I started glossing over when Fiats and Alfas started into the disscussion.
Jeff
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Well Echojeff
You will be happy to know we will be getting back to normal soon!
Zag
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I think what I will do is staart a new comments thread when I get mooving on the project.
As Echo pointed out this one kind of wandered a little.
Zag
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I think what I will do is staart a new comments thread when I get mooving on the project.
As Echo pointed out this one kind of wandered a little.
Zag
Still intrest here but you are correct, I quit reading it for a while due to 'wandering' ;) I think a new thread when you get started will strike up more intrest again.
Zig
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I'm still interested!
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Well we are back at it..........
   Please check the main thread for changes in the plan and why I had to make the changes.
New pics will be posted today or tommorow.
Zag
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Lets please try to keep comments on this thread.......
I am hoping Eric will make the other thread a sticky for future reference.
Thanks guys
Zag
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So today was compression test day
What did you guys think?
Zag
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My FSM says to depress clutch and hold accelerator (throttle) full open. Compression should be 199.0 PSI, limit is 170.0. Max. difference 14.2psi. How about a vacuum check too.
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Ooops
Forgot about the vacuum test, I'll cover that under the tune up, thanks for the reminder.
Depressing the clutch and holding the throttle open, to me, is a matter of opinion. I think as long as you use a consistant methodology the information will be good. I personally do it in neutral and leave the accelerator alone (had experiences with injection flooding when I floored it).
I have the same numbers in my FSM (factory service manual), problem is I have never been able to duplicate anyones compression numbers (ok rarely) even on a fresh engine. There seems to be too many variables
- Technique (everyone seems to do it different, ie: some guys spin the engine till it won't rise
any more, tends to give a little higher number)
- How much rpm are you really getting?
- How good the starter and battery are?
- How accurate the compression tester is?
I use the method I do because it is consistant and with my guage (which I know reads a little low) accurate enough as a general guide with the other engine info I listed.
Typically most small four cylinders are 150-160 psi hot in the real world when they are in good condition.
I guess if you absolutely duplicated the FSM method with a new expensive compression tester you could match the numbers, but working in the real world of what most guys have the numbers I've used are a good guide.
Thanks for the input!
Zag
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Next step
Oil change and Tune up
Zag
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   Forgot about the vacuum test, I'll cover that under the tune up, thanks for the reminder.
 ÂÂ
Cool, I was going suggest same as I think a lot of people forget how valuable a diagnostic tool a vacuum tester can be along with a good multimeter.
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Funny thing is my new 4dr (16V) is going to under go the same level of "sort out" this weekend ... maybe I'll try to snap pics too. I know my unit got an oil change at 221000 miles (sticker on the windshield), and now at 224000 it may not need it, but I wanna check everything anyway ...
zag, you going to swap some redline into the trans/tcase too? I plan on that when I get a replacement for my whiny tranny. May go redline in the diffs when I do the lockers there ...
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Haven't used redline...........
But when we did the swap around I put in AMS oil synthetic, cause I gets a deal!
Zag
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Hey Snofalls
Why don't you add your 16v stuff to the RallyKick thread? That way the newbies can see both.......
Zag
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So gang............
Did I catch everything? What did I miss? What should be added?
Appreciate any input.
Zag
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I don't have a sticker under my hood, is that a regional thing? FSM says 8deg BTDC |removethispart|@ 800 rpm and calls for a jumper to be fitted across the diagnostic monitor coupler between pins C and D to fix the timing.
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It may be a regional or national thing
   I've not had to do the jumper on Canadian vehicles but have heard tell of having to do it in the USA. The sticker may be a North American thing, here it dictates excact timing for the unit and plug gap, idle speed, timing etc.
I have adjusted the RallyKick thread with your update....Thank you very much "Rhinoman"!!!!
   If in doubt consult the FSM............is always great advice!
Thanks for pointing that out Rhinoman.
Zag
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good info! I need to do the vacuum test as my tailpipe is BLACK and I think its running a tad rich! ;D Also my coolant temp gauge reads low maybe its the temp sensor? Anyway of checking it?
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Hey Chet
   I've not had to test a temp sensor as of yet! I'll have to do some digging or maybe one of the guys reading the thread has an idea?
   Running rich, I've found is usually something basic.......check the usual suspects
- airfilter
- plugs
- timing
- map sensor ( I keep a know to be good used one around for testing)
Then run injector cleaner through the system.
If that doesn't get it I usually get a friend of mine to scan the vehicle.....any other ideas?
Zag
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Also my coolant temp gauge reads low maybe its the temp sensor? Anyway of checking it?
I just looked that up about 30mins ago, lol. At 20C the temperature sensor should read around 2.3KOhms. Thats a different sensor to the one that the gauge uses though.
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Zag,
Looking good so far. I think covering the basics is going to be great for a lot people. Those that know will just skip over it or may even pick up a reminder of something that bad habits have got in the way of. I don't know if that is final configuration with the new fan but if it is may I suggest looking at a way of improving the shrouding to direct all the air flow through the fan as it can make quite a difference on most vehicles. Keep up the good work.
CJ
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Here's a site with some nice moving images and explanations of Vacuum Guage readings that I thought some may find useful.
http://users.bigpond.net.au/ergoff/vac1.htm
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Thanks to Rhinoman and CJ
For adding the additional information on vacuum guages! Excellent stuff guys!
Thanks again!!!
Zag
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This is good info, I would like a bit more on the cam gear setup.
You are going to retard the cam timing by 1 tooth 6 degrees? What affect will this have?
-Steve
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Hi BV1
   I did a bunch of experimenting on this with an 8v engine on a test stand (see "high performance engine glitch thread). it sharpens the engine up and gives a little better response and on the test propellor it allowed a little more pitch which indicates a slight increase in power.
  This is one of those places where more is not better! Anymore and you start having running problems. (tried it).
  One of the members also made comment that they did it by accident and got the similar results, so it's a known freebie for a little more snap!
   My understanding of the theory is that it is moving the cam timing up the power band a little bringing it into a more effective range for the engine. I my experiments 1 tooth was optimal, 2-3 teeth was to much. Going 1 tooth and using the stock cam gear make for a real cheap mod that helps a bit and this first section of the thread is all about "cheap, easy power".
(I've got a real itch to build a rocket motor, but that will come when the budget can take it)
Zag
Hey CJ
This is going to be the initial set up to see how it works. It will be installed with 1/2 rubber gasket between the fan shroud and held with plastic retainers. I expect to have to make changes as the power level rises or if I find low speed cooling problems.
But quick and dirty is the start!
Zag
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zag ...
as to the efan mod ... I was going to take the factory shroud and fit an efan to that hole (enlarging as needed). Use fiberglass and maybe ply to git-r-done.
I'd done a similar thing to my chevy ... I made a plywood form to mount the fan to, mounted the plywood form into the factory shroud with some screws, fiberglassed the result, and then mounted the fan to the shroud and shroud to the factory spots. Works great since I can use the factory shround attachment (and not put fasteners through the radiator).
I just can't imagine fastening a fan to the rad core and having the result not cause damage when offroad.
This is on my winter todo list (aka when I have time and not actually wheelin :) )
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Actually
The mounting I'm using is the same kind we've used in race and rally cars for years and as long as the fan is a reasonable weight we've never had a problem.
This is also an experiment so I want to try it before I refine it, it would be neat to come up with an electric fan kit that would be a bolt on and this is the first step.
Zag
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zag ...
as to the efan mod ... I was going to take the factory shroud and fit an efan to that hole (enlarging as needed). Use fiberglass and maybe ply to git-r-done.
I'd done a similar thing to my chevy ... I made a plywood form to mount the fan to, mounted the plywood form into the factory shroud with some screws, fiberglassed the result, and then mounted the fan to the shroud and shroud to the factory spots. Works great since I can use the factory shround attachment (and not put fasteners through the radiator).
I just can't imagine fastening a fan to the rad core and having the result not cause damage when offroad.
This is on my winter todo list (aka when I have time and not actually wheelin :) )
A similar mounting system is also used by aftermarket efan suppliers. I threw away my shroud years ago as it was a mud trap and gave me lots of overheating problems off road. The rad still gets clogged but not so badly and its easier to hose out now. I haven't had any overheating problems with normal use (foot flat to the floor for 250 miles, only stopping for gas, lol).
For those chaps rushing out to reset their timing belt - don't forget to reset the ignition timing too.
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How about a valve clearance adjustment? On the cars I'm most familiar with, it should be done every 12-15K miles, but no one ever does them... What is the interval on Suzuki engines?
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15K miles ... and you're right hardly anyone ever does it ...
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Hey Snofalls......
Did you catch the AC fan tip on the other thread...I think it's a good one and you are far more likely to find one where you are than I ever will, should make life easier.
Bsawyers
Good thought, I think I'll try and play catch up on the Valve adjust later!
And you guys are right we should be adjusting about every 15,000 miles, like everyone else I',m prone tho leave it till it gets noisy.
Zag
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I have a custom aluminum shroud and fan
if someone is interested, I ran it on the Turbo
SideKick, but after I installed the intercooler,
it couldn't pull enough air through to keep the
engine cool, so I put the stock fan/shroud back on
I'll post pics if anyone is interested, I'd ask $50
plus shipping, the fan cost $80 plus all the fabbing.
It's home made, and welded .050 sheet with a MIG
so it's not super pretty, but could be made so if wanted
Wild
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Thanks for pointing out the valve adjust stuff guys...
I'm backing up a step and going to do a blow by blow on it today.
Seeing as I haven't got all the perf parts ready yet.
Zag
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Sorry guys
The valve adjust is gonna take longer than the tune up...got some in shop issues slowing me down.
Zag
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I apologize
I'll try to come back in tonight and get some more done on the pics, I've got the Buick from hell in my shop right now and it's making life a little irratating.
Zag
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OOOps
Guy came in and offered me more than I could say no too for the RallyKick, so now I have to find another Kick to start on.
Sorry guys but it was more than I could say no to. Pluus a 1980 Jag XJ12L in trade.
I'll resurrect the project when I find another Kick
Zag
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Well I guess this thread is stalled till I can find another base vehicle...
But look at what we have accomplished so far
If you've been following along you now have a good little Kick/Track that is....
- Throughly checked over
- Engine is compression tested and confirmed in good condition
- Tuned
- Timed
- Valves adjusted
You are basically ready to go have fun or are ready for the next step and can now start upgrading your performance.
I will get back to this thread when I have found another base vehicle and have a little time
Thanks for all the input and suggestions....I think this has been really constructive for all that have participated and especially those new to the Zuk game.
As always I'm open for questions, comments, suggestions and critiques.
Zag