ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: elotsip on April 27, 2005, 05:16:49 AM
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Has anyone done a SFA conversion on a sidekick? I emailed calmini and they said they developed a kit a couple of years ago but there wasn't much interest. Just curious what others think about this.
Bill
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*snicker*
There are several of us who've done it.
I can't imagine that "they said they developed a kit a couple of years ago but there wasn't much interest." is accurate.
~Nate
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This was the response I got from Calmini:
Sir-
We designed and built a full SAS over two years ago for the Sidekick/Tracker however due to little customer interest in the kit it was never put into production. You can see pictures and reviews of the kit online at www.zukiworld.com . Please call the sales office if you have any other questions. Thank you for your interest in the CALMINI Suzuki line. Awaiting your call.
Best Regards
Sales Department
CALMINI Products Mfg.
www.CALMINI.com
Sales: 800-345-3305
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See my signature line ;)
I'd say look around the board and use search for SAS and Solid Axle.
Can I answer any questions for you?
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I just sent you an email. I saw your kick on car domain too. Nice rig by the way.
I guess for starters I'm just curious what all is involved in converting a kick to a solid front axle. I don't have a kick at this point but I do have a strong interest in them. What axle do you use for the front? Anything else you can think of that would get me looking in the right direction. I don't have any fab skills so I was really hoping to find a full kit but oh well.
Bill
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... however due to little customer interest ...
I guess 'little customer interest' can be interpreted in many ways. Sure they weren't going to sell a million units, but those that were interested were VERY interested.
~Nate
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I just sent you an email. I saw your kick on car domain too. Nice rig by the way.
I guess for starters I'm just curious what all is involved in converting a kick to a solid front axle. I don't have a kick at this point but I do have a strong interest in them. What axle do you use for the front? Anything else you can think of that would get me looking in the right direction. I don't have any fab skills so I was really hoping to find a full kit but oh well.
Bill
Emailed you back. Wrote a book.
:)
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Emailed you back. Wrote a book.
:)
you wana send that book this way too ;) :D
stu
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you wana send that book this way too ;)  :D
stu
Yeah, I'd also be interested in that book. :)
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well Heather, while your publishing......
;D ;D me three!! please!! ;D ;D
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All book orders need to be placed thru me.
$10.95 plus shipping and handleing
;D
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All book orders need to be placed thru me.
$10.95 plus shipping and handleing
;D
You take PayPal? :P... ;D
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Emailed you back. Wrote a book.
:)
Dang, That's a nice SAS, You ever take it off any sweet jumps? ;)
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Fine.
It's not *quite* a book. But here, free for all.
Thanks for the comments! It's been a cool project and a learning experience.
How far you want to take an SAS conversion really depends on how much $$$
you are willing to spend on it. It also depends on your fabrication
skills, or, the availability of someone WITH fabrication skills or at
least the tools to LEARN the fabrication skills.
We went through two phases of our SAS. We first started out with a Samurai
front axle, which we widened ourselves, and got custom axles as well as
double tough birfields for. The front axle in the end proved to be almost
bulletproof (we trussed it as well) but the rear axle did not. Sidekick
axle shafts are not known for their strength on anything above 31-33"
tires. Especially with a locker. Others might tell you different, if they
haven't broken anything "yet".
We then decided we wanted a stronger rear axle. Well, when you do the
research, you also want something that has the correct offset, and that is
strong. We then learned that a Toyota Landcruiser FJ80 contains the
correct offset axles, and, as a bonus, come with 30 splined shafts, full
floating, electric lockers, and 4 wheel disc brakes. They can be
expensive, however. Mine were. But, they are worth it.
We decided on a leaf spring setup, because like old technology is, it's
simpler, and easier to create. You could go with Coil, though. A lot of
people on the board have. We just didn't have the time, or the skill to
work on creating the links and control arms needed with coils, and then
decide on what kind of coils we wanted.
One of the biggest issues with SAS on a Track/Kick is the transfer case.
You will need to do something about slipyoke elimination. The slips in a
Track Kick transfercase are in the case itself, not in the driveshafts. So
this means your shaft could pull out or push in too far to the
transfercase when you flex.
There are ways to modify your own case for an SYE. It's been discussed on
the forum.
We went to OTT industries and got their Kicker 3 mod. They take your
transfercase, chop off the output shaft, and make an adapter to allow you
to bolt on a samurai transfercase to the back of your sidekick one. Since
a samurai case already IS SYE, then that's taken care of, plus, now, you
have two transfercases.
Other than OTT's mod, (they also created a high steer arm for us because
FJ80 axles are .. different) we did all of the work ourselves in our
garage. We had friends with welders and torches who would work together
with us for work on their rigs, or beer and pizza.
A suggestion to you to keep the SAS cheaper, would be to find a set of
Toyota minitruck axles (79-85), they can be had for about 200-300 bucks,
bolt them on with some Jeep wrangler leaf springs, some shocks, and then
purchase an OTT Kicker 3, or Kicker 2 (that mates a sidekick case to a
toyota case) get some drivelines, put some gears in the toy cases, get a
toyota high steer arm (can be bought at numerous online places) modify the
toyota truck drang link so it's toyota on one side and sidekick on the
other, and away you go.
Sounds simple. There is a lot of fabrication involved, particularly
welding. You'll need to weld on spring perches for the leaf springs,
create new crossmembers, as well as various other things.
I think this is why a lot of people just buy Samurais. Since they are
already SAS. But I like my amenities (I am a girl, anyways) I like A/C,
comfortable seats, and the more modern look.
If you plan on doing the SAS, you can always ask me questions, I'll be
glad to help.
You can also find me on IM during the day using GalvinLuv for AIM, and
hcgalvin on YIM.
Heather
;D
I'll take those PayPal payments now. I'm trying to save up for a polka dot bikini that I can give to Bob next EJS.
EDIT: I SHOULD write a book about my experience with my sidekick. I wonder if it would sell... ???
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Thanks for the info Heather. :) A book would be great but pictures say a 1000 words. I wish someone with a SAS would post some close-up pics (that can be seen) of all their hard work.
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Thanks for the info Heather. :) A book would be great but pictures say a 1000 words. I wish someone with a SAS would post some close-up pics (that can be seen) of all their hard work.
...but.. I already do?
www.granitepath.com/friends/kd7hcg/sidekick.html :)
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Thanks, I hadn't seen all of those pics. I must have missed the memo. ;D
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Heather, I have a serious question for you, what's the big advantage to SAS, as opposed to whats offered for the original suspension? What is it you can do with your truck now that you could not do before? I just got out of a very well prepaired Samurai and into a kick, the difference is remarkable, I love the way this car preforms, could you convince me I need to go back to a Samurai type suspension system. I have been offered by a reputable company to convert my car to SAS, at no cost to me, I am not really sure I want to make the change. Please tell me why I should. Currently my car has Calmini's complete line of products, including body and suspension lifts, t case gears, anvil, and underbody armor and so on, I run 12.5 x33 tires, and I just don't see how it could get any better by changeing the suspesion. A little more horsepower seems like the next logical move for me, whats is your opinion.
Thanks
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Heather, I have a serious question for you, what's the big advantage to SAS, as opposed to whats offered for the original suspension? What is it you can do with your truck now that you could not do before? I just got out of a very well prepaired Samurai and into a kick, the difference is remarkable, I love the way this car preforms, could you convince me I need to go back to a Samurai type suspension system. I have been offered by a reputable company to convert my car to SAS, at no cost to me, I am not really sure I want to make the change. Please tell me why I should. Currently my car has Calmini's complete line of products, including body and suspension lifts, t case gears, anvil, and underbody armor and so on, I run 12.5 x33 tires, and I just don't see how it could get any better by changeing the suspesion. A little more horsepower seems like the next logical move for me, whats is your opinion.
Thanks ÂÂ
If ya don't want to , I can send them my 4dr ;)
SAS= more lift, bigger tires, more flex, maybe stronger axles. more $$
IFS= already there, works good, Turns heads seeing a IFS wheeling ;D
See Mike H Rig ;D
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well i did an SAS on my 2door and it was difficult to say the least.... in order to get everything to fit and make it all strong enough to withstand 5+ trails was a long process, i did however do it a little different than leafs. i did a double triangulated 4 link rear and a radius arm style front with fox air shocks. i have posted most of the buildup on pirate.
(http://misfitoffroad.com/phpbb/files/corner.JPG)
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well i did an SAS on my 2door and it was difficult to say the least.... in order to get everything to fit and make it all strong enough to withstand 5+ trails was a long process, i did however do it a little different than leafs.  i did a double triangulated 4 link rear and a radius arm style front with fox air shocks.  i have posted most of the buildup on pirate.
([url]http://misfitoffroad.com/phpbb/files/corner.JPG[/url])
That looks like a real neat set up you've got there, got a direct link to the thread on pirate?
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I have a serious question for you, what's the big advantage to SAS, as opposed to whats offered for the original suspension? What is it you can do with your truck now that you could not do before?
...
From a pro SAS person, here are some of the pros we've experienced;
* 24 inches of ground clearance to the frame.
* MUCH beefier axles and drive lines.
* OEM replacable parts, only thing really custom now is the drag link and drive lines. Everything else can be ordered from Napa when it wears out/brakes. Which equals to cheap/easy repairs.
* More flex.
* Larger tires.
* Better braking. (4 wheel disc and HUGE rotors, 4 piston calipers)
* Wider stance. (6 inches, without offset rims)
* Full floater rear. (strong)
* No body lift, no more body squeaks. (better looking)
* Deeper water crossings.
* No need for skid plates.
* More load capacity, more gear.
Here are some of the cons we've experienced;
* Worse fuel milage (~17-19 mpg)
* Heavier truck (~4700lbs)
* Wrangler/Toyota ride vs Sidekick ride.
IFS on dirt roads, traditional washboards did seem a tiny bit smoother. However withour current setup, I can hit the larger bumps with less shock to the truck. (So it's a toss)
Cornering, since we're 2 feet off of the ground I don't whip around corners like I used to. If I wanted a sports car ride, I'd buy one. However, the way we have it setup now with front and rear sway bars, it is very stable around corners (suprisingly so) but still less then the traditional IFS ability.
Overall, with our SAS, we drive through deeper water, drive over larger logs, drive over larger rocks, drive through deeper ruts, climb steeper hills, cross larger ditches, plow over deeper snow drifts, all while keeping 4 wheels on the ground.
People always ask us if we made it 'too tall' and is it tippy and I always say no, because it isn't. Our HUGE rear bumper is 4' off of the ground so it 'feels' tall. The entire truck is MUCH taller then a stock or even Calmini lifted Sidekick. But it's also much wider.
I'd say that all of the driving we do now, with a much more capable rig, puts us at more risk than before, primarily because now 'we can'. Just need to make sure that we keep that in mind when we're wheeling.
~Nate
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I just got out of a very well prepaired Samurai and into a kick, the difference is remarkable, I love the way this car preforms, could you convince me I need to go back to a Samurai type suspension system.
'Samurai-type' suspension.
UGH. I am so glad our SAS doesn't ride like a Sammy.
Sammy's ride like krap. Even when put on 'tuned' Wrangler springs they still ride like crap.
I think it's because they have too short of a wheel base to really climb up a long hill climb. They have too narrow of a wheel base to drive around corners and totally avoid ruts, (think getting tossed around because they don't quite fit in the ruts, in dirt and on the highway)
Too light of a truck to put decent pressure on a suspension to get a good ride, when empty, and too heavy for the suspension when loaded with people/gear.
I would in NO way compare our current SAS to a Sammy setup. Maybe more like a Jeep Cherokee, (we are 1 inch longer in wheel base, and 2 inches wider, with a smaller/lighter cabin, then a Cherokee)
~Nate
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Currently my car has Calmini's complete line of products, including body and suspension lifts, t case gears, anvil, and underbody armor and so on, I run 12.5 x33 tires, and I just don't see how it could get any better by changeing the suspesion. A little more horsepower seems like the next logical move for me, whats is your opinion.
Thanks
We really liked our Kick on 33's with a 6-8inch lift. (3-4 suspension, 3-4 inch body (calmini modified)). It definately was the best ride on the highway and gravel roads and performed very well offroad. (Click here to see some pics.)
http://www.granitepath.com/friends/kd7hcg/miscpictures.html
But we still high-centered on occasion, scrapped the bottom of the truck often. Went on 3 and even 2 wheels when trying to 'flex' over obsticles. Had horrible angle of attack, brake over angle, and angle of departure. We still broke axles and sucked water into gear oil in diffs, tranny and t-case, even though we did our best to make sure breather tubes were properly taken care of.
If you do go SAS, sell all of that Calmini gear because you won't use any of it. (maybe the t-case gears) Find a good set of axles with the features you want. Disc brakes, selectable lockers, full floater rear, high pinions, etc. and build it.
My advice would ultamately be, find a truck you're comfortable with and in. Sidekick, Jeep, Nissan, Rav4 whatever and build what you want!
~Nate
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I think that our 'ultimate' vehicle, would be to buy a v6 GV and slap our running gear under it.
You'd have the newer/modern truck with all of the creature comforts, v6 power, on top of some killer axles.
~Nate
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http://www.misfitoffroad.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2325&start=0
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=277981&highlight=build
its now driveable and im taking it out in a couple weeks, the bugs should be worked out by zukimelt ;D
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[url]http://www.misfitoffroad.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2325&start=0[/url]
[url]http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=277981&highlight=build[/url]
its now driveable and im taking it out in a couple weeks, the bugs should be worked out by zukimelt ;D
Very, very nice!
~Nate
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Nate ,
Thanks for answering my questions and thanks for all the information you unselfishly share with all who ask. At the risk of sounding critical, I saw your vehicle work in Moab and it did not remind me much at all of how my Samurai worked, my Samurai worked well. It did however remind me of my Dads 1971 Suzuki TM 400 motorcycle. That thing looked great but left alot to be desired in the handleing department, my dad and everyone else that owned a TM 400 spent the next few years trying to get those bike,s to handle as good as they looked. No one ever did, but they all had alot of fun trying. I think its safe to say you got what you wanted from your car and you have had alot fun doing it. But is there a perfect setup, would you do it all over again, or would you just look for something else?
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Nate ,
Thanks for answering my questions and thanks for all the information you unselfishly share with all who ask. At the risk of sounding critical, I saw your vehicle work in Moab and it did not remind me much at all of how my Samurai worked, my Samurai worked well. It did however remind me of my Dads 1971 Suzuki TM 400 motorcycle. That thing looked great but left alot to be desired in the handleing department, my dad and everyone else that owned a TM 400 spent the next few years trying to get those bike,s to handle as good as they looked. No one ever did, but they all had alot of fun trying. I think its safe to say you got what you wanted from your car and you have had alot fun doing it. But is there a perfect setup, would you do it all over again, or would you just look for something else?
Nah, you're not being critical, I'm probably the most critical of my truck. You should hear the colorful words I call it, to my wife nearly every day and everytime I have to work on it. It's not pretty...
But that being said. To defend the handling, I'll be the first to admit that our truck wasn't 100%, 90% or even 80% up to par either before and on Golden Spike, however, once we blew a t-case it was definately all over as I had to baja style over every obsticle I could and get strapped up the rest.
We are still tuning the rear shock situation, which we in-boarded them way too much before we went to Moab. (First time I've ever in-boarded shocks before, definately a different deal) Plus I'm using BDS shocks, which I've never used before, I shoulda stuck with Ranchos and left them outboarded.
I still need a drop pitman arm to get rid of the bump steer which is an easy fix, I just didn't have time for it before Moab.
And it needs to loose some of the weight I added with the huge rear bumper and swing arm and lighten up the center crossmembers for the t-cases.
Other than all of that, it was working pretty good. I was susprised at how much more stable it was with the upgrades we did over last years setup. (We had stock Kick axle and full width hybrid sammy in the front)
The sway bars helped, the rear end is SUPER bouncy (once I fix the shock situation it will fix that)
But the question;
"But is there a perfect setup, would you do it all over again, or would you just look for something else?"
I've asked these type of questions many times myself, especially when I get frusterated with something. And like I said earlier in the thread;
"We really liked our Kick on 33's with a 6-8inch lift. (3-4 suspension, 3-4 inch body (calmini modified)). It definately was the best ride on the highway and gravel roads and performed very well offroad... "
There are times when I wish I didn't make the jump to SAS, but then when we head up into the hills here in Idaho, wheel hard all day long, and do things I normally would have turned around before and then come home and pull into the driveway with a BIG old sheit eating grin on my face. Not having broken anything, I'm always glad we did what we did. It's just such a more capable rig.
~Nate
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Speechless...
stu
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Nate,
An honset answer to a difficult question, thanks for the time.
Mike
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UPDATE!
BDS shocks are vertically challenged. Ours were installed upside down and were providing ZERO dampening.
Flipping the shocks over greatly improved ride.
(Imagine that)
~Nate