ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: ebewley on April 30, 2003, 05:52:10 AM
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For a Solid Axle Kick there needs to be a good donor vehicle. Perfect would be same width as the rear, same bolt pattern, and relatively same strength. I know there are a few axles that are 'close' but is there anything that is dead on?
An Early Bronco Dana 44 would be awesome except it is a left hand side pumpkin. TJ and YJ Dana 30s are close to except for the LH drop, bolt pattern, and width. :) Toyota mini truck front ends, except birfield, bolt pattern, and cost...
Anyway, does anyone know of a "magic vehicle" for a donor?
-Eric
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trailtough is working on a sas swap.will use a hybrib front with kick 3rd member and dana 44 style axles.will come with arb installed.sold as a complete lift 61/2 inch front coils and new coils for rear.they said they can only work on it in there spare time but maybe with enough interest they would work a little faster.this is the lift i'm waiting on.call them at 1-877-suzukis
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I think the axels from a scout are almost dead on for width, and they are dana 44's. Look up a guy from this site who posts under the name of Mudkick he's done such a swap, and he's be more than happy to help you since he preaches sas conversions :
bb . bc4x4 . com
also check this sights pictures for mudkick's sidekick,
nolimitoffroad . com
What are you planning for the front end, leaf springs or coils ?
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I think the axels from a scout are almost dead on for width, and they are dana 44's. Look up a guy from this site who posts under the name of Mudkick he's done such a swap, and he's be more than happy to help you since he preaches sas conversions :)
bb .bc4x4 .com
also check this sights pictures for mudkick's sidekick,
www .nolimitoffroad .com
What are you planning for the front end, leaf springs or coils ?
Jason has already talked with them I believe. If I do a solid axle, big if, I'll stick with coils. I don't want to go too far back in time. :)
-Eric
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Even with moly shafts, rings/cups, spacers and trussing, the Sammy axle is still too narrow for the Kicks
FWIK, the Scout can work.
Problem is for folks NOT in a place where cars rust away within 7-10 years, Scout axles are very hard to find.
One, other folks want them too. Jeepers, and even Zookers will want them. Limited supply + high demand = high price.
Two, they are old. Any Scout axle I've seen requires major rebuilding (same with Toys). Usually, everything need replacing, except the housing, shafts, and R&P (if you are lucky). But usually you have to change that too to match your rear end.
Three, even if you do your own labor, by time you add up the Locker, R&P, bearings, u-joints, shims, seals, cleaners, paints, you have a big bill. If you can't do the labor yourself, it will cost even more.
Then add in a custom driveshaft or swap to a pinion flange (do they have them for D44s?), otherwise, you won't be reusing the stock front driveshaft.
As I see it, the best solution would be a Hybrid-style axle, similar to what is out there for Samurais.
Uh, wait, it is. Silly me, Spidertrax makes Sidewinder fronts that are 3" and 6" wider than a Sammy.
Sammy front = 51.2", rear = 51.6"
Kicker front = 54.9", rear = 55.1"
KickSport front = 57.3", rear = 57.1"
So, they axle is available now, and hopefully at other places soon. The question is, who will make the full kit to take the guess work out of it.
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But wait a minute.
Before we all dream of coil-over SAS for radical Kickers, we need to address one problem.
Offset front pumpkin + gobs of travel = slip yoke pulling out of the Kick t-case.
More importantly, who will be first to develop a SYE for the Kick t-case?
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But wait a minute.
More importantly, who will be first to develop a SYE for the Kick t-case?
Awe, very wize grasshopper. SYE for the kick case is a key piece of the puzzle. Even if you don't want to go solid up front a rear SYE would allow for a custom driveline and even more droop as the driveline is the limiting factor at this point on the rear end.
Additionally, this would make the Sidekick case viable for all sorts of other options. With rockcrawler gears, it could potentially be the cheapest 4.24:1 case one could buy and with a couple of adapters could go into almost anything! Wouldn't it be ironic if the Toyota guys started putting Suzuki Cases in their trucks. :o
So, who's going to be our SYE kit manufacturer HERO? ;)
-Eric
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What does SYE stand for ?
And what do you guys think about the anvil from calmini ?
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Slip Yoke Eliminator, my self the Anvil looks great but is only half the solution, but something you would be very hard pressed to duplicate in your back yard, the diff housing being the second. Tim's previous email go into this, and to be fair he has More knowledge of these than I do, but all in all with both of those pieces the only weak point left should be the CV's.
Mac
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trail toughs hybrid is avalible in custom widths and they wiil have a complete sas swap with coils.
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I didn't know Brents axles were also available in custom widths.
I guess the great SAS race is on, but how is TT going to address the issue of the slip yoke in the front? I've heard of SAS Kicks pulling the slip yoke out during droop.
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I'm also looking at doing a SAS this winter. i was going to use a sammy or yota axle but now i think i might go with a Scout D44.  some of them even come with factory limited slips!!!  i'm going to do a 4 link and coils on the front and i might even D44 the rear too and 4-link it!
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What's Calmini using on the kit they put on your ride????Is the new kit going to include everything or are we going to have to come up with our own straight axle?I would be all for buying the whole set with the Anvil!!!!I'm not rich,but price isn't really a factor for me I just want the best and only like doing things once and the right way from the start.I'm realy anxious on the release on the new straight axle kit!!! I'll talk to my buddy at the 4X4 shop and see what Calmini has to say about everything.Also how do you like the straight axle in your ride?????Inquiring minds want to know!!!!!!
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To anyone who is interested: Yes the slip yoke is a potential problem. To get around it i just built my front end with the pumkin in the middle. I get up the ramp to a height of 1020mm ( 40 inches ) and the only movement on the slip yoke is 20mm so i just mounted the drive shaft properly. I could probably ramp higher but my 37's start to bind up in the wheel wells even with aprox 10 inches of lift - but how high do you want to go, I mean surely that is enough! The diff rotates around the centre and when one wheel is moving up the other is moving down - result not much lateral movement in the pumpkin. I built a custom front end. My rig is a short wheelbase Kick. Trail Tough are VERY helpful with there axle build flexibility, give them a call and be pleasantly surprised. I mean check out the Crustacean - what a work of art, quite the machine really.
ZeusZuki.
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Slip yoke problem: To solve this mount your rear link point at the same point the front driveshaft exits the t-case. With both being equal in length the radius is equal and thus movement fore/aft of the axle during rotation is nill.
Why not swap the diffs on a D30? There only pressed in and welded at the knuckles. SO MANY people grind off the welds at the knucle to remove and add castor to the axle. Plus a D30 from an XJ are plenty and have high-pinion diffs. 4.88 gears are max though. Swap axle housings or build new ones.
Options are there, just takes a few fabbers to do it once, document it really well and then share.
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Other option outside of the SYE: Add a 2wd tranny and a sammi case! Then you have fixed yolks.
I got a set of Scout 44's under my deck. Who knows when the hell I'll get around to hangin em under the tracker!
(Psst, they might be for sale ;D)
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i had a mag that had all of the axel spects for jeeps ,but cant find it now . i do rember seeing a jeep cherokee chief or somthing like that .fullsize that was a dana 44 rite hand drive that was pretty close to the same width.
i should have piked it up they only wanted $150 for it at a u wrench it salvage yard .but i came home to find out what it was for shur and 2 days later it was gone. as far as sye it can be done ;) just find a machiene shop in your aera that you can take it to .
Eric dont you have sas ? and what are your spring rates? and what shocks . i was beating myself to death tring to keep up with you and Hutch leaveing pritchet canyon!
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Just found this http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-corner/facts/axles/axle.htm Select a manufacturer then scroll to the bottom for width info.
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here is a chart i find useful when picking my axle. i tried to paste it it was all messed up dana 30 out of a jeep a wid track is 56" and a narrow is 53" and they r right hand pumpkin. i would go with a 9" rear. i have seen lots of guys run front dana 30 with 35s on a wrangler and never break. hey the bolt patteren look at that 5 on 5 1/2. not as strong as a yota but no body wants em.
CHEAP
i got both of mine for $55. very good thought on that 9" but they're going fast every one wants one. here is the axle info page if u want to view. http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-corner/facts/axles/axle.htm
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Just found this [url]http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-corner/facts/axles/axle.htm[/url] Select a manufacturer then scroll to the bottom for width info.
sorry i guess i should have read the rest of the post. very informative site wouldn't u say. i have e-maled the guy a couple of times he has great info on tag I.D. so u can knoe the gear set before u buy it. i found a 9" for my jeep with 29 spline and 4.56 gears from stock. saved alot of time and cash.
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No worries ;D It is a very good site.
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Why wouldn't the Land Rover Discovery axles work? Using the Kicker3 setup with a Sami case, the offset axles would work well with the ds.
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Why wouldn't the Land Rover Discovery axles work? Using the Kicker3 setup with a Sami case, the offset axles would work well with the ds.
Are they 5 on 5.5? Same bolt pattern?
If somebody can find the 'magic donor' vehicle it would really help us all.
I've searched high and low for the perfect fit. And have even gone as far as making my own Hybrid Suzuki front end.
We've found that the FJ80 LC axles have the correct offset and have lots of kewl features available to them. Sure, they are a bit wider, but not outrageously so. Especially if you guys are already runing greater than stock off-set rims, ~3.75. The LC axles with normal offset rims, just might be your answer.
(it's not too wide.)
(http://www.granitepath.com/friends/kd7hcg/pictures/toyaxles/outside/DCP_6881.jpg)
The major downside of FC80, LC axles might be considered the cost. But if you add up the costs to make any other axle equipped with selectable lockers, full floater rear axles, high pinions, and front AND rear disc brakes, it really ends up being a wash in the end.
Please, if anybod's got anything closer let us know!
~Nate
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Let me guess ... you're aired down in that pic cuz that's the only way to get it in the garage ;D
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Are they 5 on 5.5?  Same bolt pattern?
If somebody can find the 'magic donor' vehicle it would really help us all.
I've searched high and low for the perfect fit.  And have even gone as far as making my own Hybrid Suzuki front end.
We've found that the FJ80 LC axles have the correct offset and have lots of kewl features available to them.  Sure, they are a bit wider, but not outrageously so.  Especially if you guys are already runing greater than stock off-set rims, ~3.75.  The LC axles with normal offset rims, just might be your answer.
(it's not too wide.)
([url]http://www.granitepath.com/friends/kd7hcg/pictures/toyaxles/outside/DCP_6881.jpg[/url])
The major downside of FC80, LC axles might be considered the cost.  But if you add up the costs to make any other axle equipped with selectable lockers, full floater rear axles, high pinions, and front AND rear disc brakes, it really ends up being a wash in the end.
Please, if anybod's got anything closer let us know!
~Nate
I was just mentioning it as a possibility due to the offset axles. To add, prices for their axles, complete with arms, brakes, and steering, is roughly under ~$300 in the midwest!! The wheel lugs are 5, but don't know the configuration. The axles are encased (closed knuckle), have splined drive flanges, available gearing up to 4.8, air or cable lockers available, drop out centers, 4-wheel discs with matching rear, and in some models, rear full floater and drive flange pinions. Similar to that of the Toy FJ80's, but with much less upfront cost, hehe. Note: most stock axles won't have the deep gears or lockers. Just special models will have this. Lastly to add, the drag link for the front axle is high mounted on the knuckle (above it acutally) and the tie rod is behind the axle. The control arms are similar design to that of the FJ80s with the front of axle and rear of axle mounts. Mounting these to the Suzuki frame would be rather easy with a simple mount or crossmember. About the only problem would be the coil spring mount (not knowing the coil mount width on the axle or frame width).
Mind you, Land Rover is not as popular as Toyota for parts, and will probably pay a great $$$ at dealerships for small item parts, the late model Discovery model weighs nearly 5800#s, I figure the axles could endure underneath a Suzuki. Though do look at all the US aftermarket sources for the Land Rover Defender90, Discovery, and 110.
PS. I missed out getting the front axle for $250 from a Discovery almost locally. The arms, coils, steering, brakes, everything complete. Matching rear would be added for a mire $200. DS extra but probably cheap.
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but fj 80 axels are not easy to find !!!=$$$
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I was just mentioning it as a possibility due to the offset axles. To add, prices for their axles, complete with arms, brakes, and steering, is roughly under ~$300 in the midwest!! The wheel lugs are 5, but don't know the configuration. The axles are encased (closed knuckle), have splined drive flanges, available gearing up to 4.8, air or cable lockers available, drop out centers, 4-wheel discs with matching rear, and in some models, rear full floater and drive flange pinions. Similar to that of the Toy FJ80's, but with much less upfront cost, hehe. Note: most stock axles won't have the deep gears or lockers. Just special models will have this. Lastly to add, the drag link for the front axle is high mounted on the knuckle (above it acutally) and the tie rod is behind the axle. The control arms are similar design to that of the FJ80s with the front of axle and rear of axle mounts. Mounting these to the Suzuki frame would be rather easy with a simple mount or crossmember. About the only problem would be the coil spring mount (not knowing the coil mount width on the axle or frame width).
Mind you, Land Rover is not as popular as Toyota for parts, and will probably pay a great $$$ at dealerships for small item parts, the late model Discovery model weighs nearly 5800#s, I figure the axles could endure underneath a Suzuki. Though do look at all the US aftermarket sources for the Land Rover Defender90, Discovery, and 110.
PS. I missed out getting the front axle for $250 from a Discovery almost locally. The arms, coils, steering, brakes, everything complete. Matching rear would be added for a mire $200. DS extra but probably cheap.
Oh no, I was just asking because they are all over around here. I never bothered to check because I always thought that Land Rover products might be more expensive then Toyota.
This might be a great idea.
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Let me guess ... you're aired down in that pic cuz that's the only way to get it in the garage ;D
Yah, that was the first time we pulled it out after build.
Check this pic out;
http://www.granitepath.com/friends/kd7hcg/pictures/toyaxles/outside/DCP_6882.jpg
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but fj 80 axels are not easy to find !!!=$$$
In the North West, they've been pretty easy to find.
When we got ours there were several sets in most of the near-by auto salvage lots. (within 100 miles)
And their price ranged wildly.
~Nate