ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Overdrive on April 27, 2005, 03:35:29 PM
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Hi everyone, new to the site, this being my first post. I think I might just get some interesting answers to this one. I'm in the market for an off-road vehicle. It's been a while, and I mostly used Land Rovers in the past. I want something this time that I can modify over time from standard, or near to it.
I finally settled on the idea of a Suzuki SJ, gathered as much info as possible, web sites etc., viewed one or two for sale. Since they haven't been produced for so long, they're proving to be a bit thin on the ground in the condition I want. Some of the part-modified ones I've seen are not what I want.
After researching more and more on US off-roading sites the last few days, I'm turning towards the idea of a SWB two-door Vitara (aka "Sidekick"), as they're newer and more plentiful.
I'd be really interested to hear everyones' views and comparisons re. off-road ability, modification experiences, better / worse than SJ and so on. The only engine available standard in the SWB here in the UK is the 1.6 litre petrol (diesel in five-door only). How is this reliability-wise and performance measured against the earlier1.3?
In short, any information whatsoever would be of great help and appreciated...
Overdrive.
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find a "jimny" ... not sure how plentiful they are in the UK,, but it's the closest thing to a late model solid front axel suzuki you can get. (spain manufacture from what I gather and exported to the other countries on the cont and BVI, etc)
They never came to the US, but I want one ...
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find a "jimny" ... not sure how plentiful they are in the UK,, but it's the closest thing to a late model solid front axel suzuki you can get. (spain manufacture from what I gather and exported to the other countries on the cont and BVI, etc)
They never came to the US, but I want one ...
Thanks for that. There are plenty of Jimnys here, but not modified / off-road ones from what I've seen, and they aren't something I've looked into seriously yet. They are very car-like compared to the SJ / Samurai, at least outwardly, but that's not beyond changing! So you believe their suspension set-up to be a better basis than the Vitara?
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you could also look at the escudo
http://www.suzuki.co.jp/dom4/lineup/escudo/
I really don't know why I gave you that link it's in japanese
(http://www.suzuki.co.jp/dom4/lineup/escudo/exterior/preview/02.jpg)
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you could also look at the escudo
[url]http://www.suzuki.co.jp/dom4/lineup/escudo/[/url]
I really don't know why I gave you that link it's in japanese
([url]http://www.suzuki.co.jp/dom4/lineup/escudo/exterior/preview/02.jpg[/url])
It's alright thanks I managed with the language conversion pack. I think that's an updated version of the larger 5-door Vitara we have here called the Grand Vitara. Ideally I want small!
I heard somewhere recently that the SJ is still being manufacured in some parts of the world, don't know how true, but I guess enough people would buy them if import was posssible...
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You could try to locate a used vitara 2dr. not sure what's in England
(http://images.autotrader.com/images/2005/4/23/180/926/1408914106.180926356.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.562x421.jpg)
This one is a 2000
http://www.desperateseller.co.uk/make/Suzuki/SJ/SJ.html
this site is in england I think
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You could try to locate a used vitara 2dr. not sure what's in England
([url]http://images.autotrader.com/images/2005/4/23/180/926/1408914106.180926356.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.562x421.jpg[/url])
This one is a 2000
We have plenty of those, 2-door similar to that (from as low as 1,500 dollars in your money for something tidy), and they seem the obvious successor or alternative to the SJ range, that's why I'm interested to hear views from guys who've taken mods to the same extent as on Sjs in the past, find out if they can be made as effective as the old Samurai...
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I think they compare better to the sidekicks. than to the samurai's and SJ's
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The Jimnys are starting to get more common. Have a look on KAPs website, they do a lot of mods. Vitaras are much more common nowadays and there are quite a few people making parts. Jimnys command much higher prices because they are still a current model, similarly with GVs. The 1.6 is a solid engine as long as you don't overheat it, the 8V seems more reliable but the 16V has lots more power. Vitara can take bigger tyres more easily which gives better ground clearance. Have a look on difflock.com there a lot of people there running Vitaras and SJs and a few Jimnys too. Your best bet is to go to a meet and chat with a few owners. The Vitara is a much nicer car to drive than the SJ and has much more interior space too.
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what about this it is sunder snoopy's new look.
(http://www.jeeperos.com/foros/attachment.php?s=&postid=75049)
(http://www.jeeperos.com/foros/attachment.php?s=&postid=75046)
(http://www.jeeperos.com/foros/attachment.php?s=&postid=75051)
(http://www.jeeperos.com/foros/attachment.php?s=&postid=76651)
(http://www.jeeperos.com/foros/attachment.php?s=&postid=76656)
(http://www.jeeperos.com/foros/attachment.php?s=&postid=76654)
(http://www.jeeperos.com/foros/attachment.php?s=&postid=76653)
(http://www.jeeperos.com/foros/attachment.php?s=&postid=76450)
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Thanks for the replies guys ;)
Rhinoman, I'll have a look at the site you suggested.
Tracker:- I guess almost anything looks the part when modified like that! Nice...
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So you believe their suspension set-up to be a better basis than the Vitara?
What I like about the jimny is the solid front axel versus the IFS of the vitara ... Also, it's using coils (not leafs) which IMO is a step up from a sierra.
SUZUKI JIMNY
Specifications
BODY:
Three-door
CHASSIS:
Separate ladder-frame chassis
ENGINE:
4-cylinder 16 valve fuel-injected 1.3L
TRANSMISSION:
Five-speed manual or Four-speed automatic
4WD SYSTEM:
'Drive Select' dual-range (high/low) four-wheel-drive
MAXIMUM POWER:
59 kW |removethispart|@ 6000 rpm
MAXIMUM TORQUE:
104 Nm |removethispart|@ 4500 rpm
SUSPENSION:
Front - three-link coil spring, rigid-axle & stabiliser bar
Rear - three-link coil spring, rigid-axle
BRAKES:
Discs/drums
FUEL TANK:
40 litres
OVERALL HEIGHT:
1670mm
OVERALL WIDTH:
1600mm
OVERALL LENGTH:
3625mm
CURB WEIGHT:
1025kg (5 M/T)
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Thanks for that... the solid front axle thing does weigh on my mind a little. I'm no off-road expert, but it seems important, maybe a better basis. However, I'll listen to points of view from anyone that consider the Vitara set-up as equal...
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The Jimny is a good vehicle, I'm not knocking it. My gf has one (stock but been off road). It isn't that high in stock form and is pretty much the same size as the Vit. There aren't as many parts available for it yet, there are a few lift kits but correcting the steering geometry requires replacement trailing arms and it is very twitchy running more than a 2" lift without them. A 2" lifted Jimny will still struggle to clear 215s. I think in a few years time it will replace the SJ as they all get older and wrecked by offroaders and as more become available at lower prices. At the moment you need to consider the size of your budget, which you haven't stated.
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Vitara's, i love mine with a bit of lift they are a very capible vehicle and will do most things a landy does except brake and sink in the mud. if your a tall and chunky like me u fit in them too much more elbow room than a SJ, sami or landy. (have to open a truck cab landy door so i can move my leg to brake!!!) plenty of power and torque from that revvi little 1.6 8V or 16V motor buy one spend the cash u save on bits like winches and tyres
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Thanks, keep 'em coming!
Rhinoman, the budget is not really a problem (at least to buy one initially), I hope to get as good as possible without buying something more tidy than necessary for off-road modification, if you know what I mean. Trouble is, it's getting hard to find a UK SJ like this, and the owners of the ones that are are getting "wise" to their desirability.
Madvitara, I'm coming round to the Vitara idea a little, since they are more plentiful over here as you must know. I guess I just need to see some following SJs and Jimnys up cliffs! And talk to as many owners of modded ones as possible, as suggested earlier.
Thanks again.
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What are you planing on doing offroad - EXACTLY. This will dictate what vehicle will be most appropriate. I own and have modified them all so I should be able to give you some sound advise. I will take into account your engineering ability and how deep your pocket is. Are you good mechanically? Are you made of money or like me and build on a budget? Are you after comfort or would you sacrifice comfort for offroad ability? Let me know.
ZeusZuki.
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What are you planing on doing offroad - EXACTLY. This will dictate what vehicle will be most appropriate. I own and have modified them all so I should be able to give you some sound advise. I will take into account your engineering ability and how deep your pocket is. Are you good mechanically? Are you made of money or like me and build on a budget? Are you after comfort or would you sacrifice comfort for offroad ability? Let me know.
ZeusZuki.
Hi Zeus. I think the best summary of what I'm after would be like this:
Something medium lifted, say 4 - 6" total, possibly on 31s, quite well protected. I want the best possible compromise between roadability and off-road performance, say about a "medium" stage off-road wise but viable for the street, if that makes sense.
The money or access to engineering facilities isn't really a problem, and I'd do a mix of self-build and off-the-shelf stuff I'd say. I already know I'd want to improve engine performance (or possibly go the turbo-diesel route).
My choices I think now lie between SJ, Vitara and Jimny (Suz either way). If I go Vitara, I might consider a longer wheelbase 5-door ("Grand"). I do like the pure "jeepness" of the SJ, but the more I'm looking all three seem to have plenty of potential.
I'd be interested in your thoughts / experiences...
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...and to answer to what I'd do off-road Zeus, probably most stuff to a point, but not much rock. Cheers.
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The Jimny will require big body and suspension lifts to get 31" on. I think in the order of 3" body and 4" suspension with a little trimming or you could just go crazy with the sawzall and less lift ;D It uses a different t-case to the SJ so if you want rock crawling gears you will need to swap to an older style t-case or you can get some 24% high and low reduction gears for the standard case. The front axle shafts are the smaller 1 litre size, not 1.3's. Big suspension lifts on the Jimny will require some reinforcing or you will find things tearing out. You can get things like front and rear ARB lockers and snorkels etc for them. There are 2 different 1.3 motors in them, the earlier ones are G series like the SJ while the later ones are M series. Have a look at jimnyworld.com
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The Jimny will require big body and suspension lifts to get 31" on. I think in the order of 3" body and 4" suspension with a little trimming or you could just go crazy with the sawzall and less lift ;D It uses a different t-case to the SJ so if you want rock crawling gears you will need to swap to an older style t-case or you can get some 24% high and low reduction gears for the standard case. The front axle shafts are the smaller 1 litre size, not 1.3's. Big suspension lifts on the Jimny will require some reinforcing or you will find things tearing out. You can get things like front and rear ARB lockers and snorkels etc for them. There are 2 different 1.3 motors in them, the earlier ones are G series like the SJ while the later ones are M series. Have a look at jimnyworld.com
Thanks for that, I wondered about suspension & trans, strength etc., the Jimny seeming to be a little more road-focused as standard. I did post up on jimnyworld.com a few days back, but in contrast to the help I've had here, no-one's replied!! Maybe comparison to Vitara & SJ is a thorny subject... ???
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Had a couple of SJ's and with no mods they are more capable than vitara but a lifted vit befits from more power, i have found mine to be stronger and is nicer to drive both on and off road. your back feels it after a good days laning in a leaf sprung zuk
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Had a couple of SJ's and with no mods they are more capable than vitara but a lifted vit befits from more power, i have found mine to be stronger and is nicer to drive both on and off road. your back feels it after a good days laning in a leaf sprung zuk
Thanks. I've been looking more at Vitaras in the ads, and I'll look at a couple over weekend. I think it would be sometihng around a '97 - '98 probably, and I may even get a LWB 5-door yet. Are there any particular years that are better or worse for any reason, and do you have any knowledge / experience of the TD engine (in the LWB) ?
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Diesel Vitara, im not sure which year the engine used changed, the early ones used the peugeot 1.9TD which people seem to hate in vitaras i've never driven one but one of my vans had the same engine and was a flyer the lads loved driving it so i would think a zuk with that engine should be great? heard nothing bad about the newer diesel but i would say if its the newer peugeot engine from the van experiance there not as good, much less pokey and less reliable.
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The early diesel engine was a 2.0L Mazda engine, later ones had the 1.9 Peugeot and the new ones I believe are also a Peugeot engine. 1997/98 Vitaras should be 16V engines, try and find a Japanese built one as information for the Spanish built ones seems hard to come by. I would avoid the later 4u and 4u2 as they have the 8V engine and different electrics and there is no workshop manual available - not even from Suzuki! (ask me how I know >:()
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Looked at three today, one LWB, and a hard top and soft top 3-door, all road spec. The 1.6 16v motors felt pretty good. I've since called someone with an already-prepared soft top 3-door (an older 8-valve) that needs some tidying, but is essentially ok (he says), so I'll go and see that in the next couple of days.
At least I can get moving on the dirt pretty quickly then, and see what I think of the Vit experience!
(still feeling a bit "diesel LWB" though!)
Thanks for the views.
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swb soft top Vit, you won't be disappointed !
light weight, comfortable, simple,
cheap and easy mods with 2"susp & 2"body spacers, or full kits widely available for bigger lifts,
31"s are enough without too much impact on gearing, not too much wandering about on the tarmac ( maybe unlike leaf springs ?)
big grin factor,