ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: mbmarkyb on April 14, 2005, 01:13:19 AM
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Hello guys.
I now have twin winches more eletric add on than an 18 wheeler so it time to change the alternator.
I have picked up a Ford alternator that can kick out 140amps and with a spacer will fit the mounts and has a simular pully
Jobs to do.
1. Work out what the two wires do on the Tracker stock plug?
I will be upgrading the charge cable and installing the second battery with a series of cut out switches and two voltmeters, I havant decided fully as I need to look to see whats best with the least amount of wires. a split charge relay is to expensive and teh cheap ones just set on fire lol
Any help on the question above would be great I will get and buy myself a workshop manual
Lastly anyone have the 70amp Bosch part number for the alternator if you have them
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Cool, all I have is the 55amp partno. Make sure to post pics a details.... he he I"m interested in dual batteries
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my friend runs dual red top optimas on his sami has 2 6000 lbs winchs, 6 warn lights, a cb, GPS, 2 back up lights, and a stereo with 2 12" subs. the stock altornator powers everything. obviously 1 winch at a time. if he uses all the lights and cranks up the stereo it causes the lights to pules with the beat because he needs a transformer/bass boaster. don't know if this helps.
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Where are you putting the second battery?
I know I don't have anywhere CLOSE to enough room under my hood for a second battery!
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IN the back of my truck i have a box that holds all my gear it will go in there ,
I was thinking of putting them both in there,,,
Yeah my alternator is dieing but I run a 12500LBS winch on the front that has fast line speed etc but lately my voltmeter can read down to 3 volts when winching I run a yellow top Optim at present which will recover well. before on extreme winching It woud drop down to 10volts which was exceptable. I hate having to wait for a recharge so going to up the amps stored and teh amps that can be drawn..
I tend to have to winch a fair amount when taking part in challenges and marshalling so i figured its time to up rate my stock gear that was never ment to pull lots of amps alot of the time.
Even my eletric fan pulls 22amps my winch can pull 110amp plus,,, depending on the load. Poor 55amp alternator no wonder it doesnt last too long.
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have just got a Superwinch EP9 for mine, and I think the Spanish Vit I have has an even smaller battery than a stock one.
I thought of a second heavy duty battery for the winch, with a split charger set up, fitting it to the near side (UK)under the bonnet, but I'm also fitting a snorkel, so won't have much room. I guess I'll have to stick with one battery but go for a bigger one.
I don't expect to use the winch a lot, unlike you Mark!
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Where are you putting the second battery?
I know I don't have anywhere CLOSE to enough room under my hood for a second battery!
I ran twin stock sized batteries under the hood for a while. I used a stock battery try cut the mounts off and reversed them with a 60mm off set to space it out from the air intake and bolted it down on the LH side, you would of been had pressed not to think it was factory fitted too.
Although thinking about it this would only work with a 16v model as the 8v's air box is alot further back IIRC ? and probably not with a LH drive either seems the brake booster would interfere aswell..... ???
Now I've removed the LH side battery (trays still there if any wants pix) and put a steel box in the back with a 925cca silver cadmium battery for running the Warn M6000.
I still need to get around to wiring independent charging system too.
(http://outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/phpBB2/download.php?id=7501&sid=aaafca513dace06bcf4de844b7e2326e)
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I ran twin stock sized batteries under the hood for a while. I used a stock battery try cut the mounts off and reversed them with a 60mm off set to space it out from the air intake and bolted it down on the LH side, you would of been had pressed not to think it was factory fitted too.
Although thinking about it this would only work with a 16v model as the 8v's air box is alot further back IIRC ? and probably not with a LH drive either seems the brake  booster would interfere aswell..... ???
Now I've removed the LH side battery (trays still there if any wants pix) and put a steel box in the back with a 925cca silver cadmium battery for running the Warn M6000.
I still need to get around to wiring independent charging system too.
I have seen an 8V Vit Sport with the airbox towards the front like a 16V so it would be possible to relocate the airbox. I don't know if the brake booster would be a problem for the LHD cars after all its not a problem with RHD with the battery on the RHS.
You'd have to be careful with a split charger as a run down battery can draw a lot of current. I have seen some that are very low rated and could fail very quickly.
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What I was wondering though with the LH drive is if the air intake runs from the front air box and exits out the rear of the engine bay through the inner guard (Like I think they all do ?) you have to offset the battery tray 60mm off the inner guard because of the air intake tube, unlike our drivers side (yours and mine anyway ;)) where the battery tray is hard up against the inner guard and just clears the brake booster.
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What I was wondering though with the LH drive is if the air intake runs from the front air box and exits out the rear of the engine bay through the inner guard (Like I think they all do ?) you have to offset the battery tray 60mm off the inner guard because of the air intake tube, unlike our drivers side  (yours and mine anyway  ;)) where the battery tray is hard up against the inner guard and just clears the brake booster.
Fair point
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all looks good.
Rhinoman do you have any idea what the two wires on the alternator plug must be ignion or something.
I might go get the book of lies and see if it states anything,
i think the way i will go is , Wire the batterys pos to pos two cut out switches, on each battery so i can charge one or other and have them both on when winching plus ican turn them off when its not being used .
or relocate them to the back so i could have one main lead to the back have a threeway switch so i can either have position 1 left batt . position 2 both, pos 3 right batt with two voltmeters. , it would be less wiring,
I could alwasy replace the charge wires and have those seperate.
I think its a case of take it out have a look decide and then measure up cable lengths get them made in some nice armor cables and bobs your oncle
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all looks good.
Rhinoman do you have any idea what the two wires on the alternator plug must be ignion or something.
I might go get the book of lies and see if it states anything, ÂÂ
i think the way i will go is , Wire the batterys pos to pos  two cut out switches, on each battery so i can charge one or other and have them both on when winching plus  ican turn them off when its not being used .
or  relocate them to the back so i could have one main lead to the back have a threeway switch so i can either have position 1 left batt . position 2 both,  pos 3 right batt with two voltmeters. , it would be less wiring,
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I could alwasy replace the charge wires and have those seperate.
I think its a case of take it out have a look decide and then measure up cable lengths get them made in some nice armor cables and bobs your oncle
I probably should know what they do but I can't recall off the top of my head. I have a spare Bosch unit I will have a look at. Didn't get a chance last night as the bike broke down on the way home :'( Its worth keeping the leads as short as possible as the winch can take a LOT of current, do you have the specs? then the voltage drop on the leads can become significant. If you have any plugs in the leads they can drop a lot of power too. What cable size are you using?
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i think the way i will go is , Wire the batterys pos to pos  two cut out switches, on each battery so i can charge one or other and have them both on when winching plus  ican turn them off when its not being used .
make sure not to wire them wrong, it'd suck to fry your computer , etc... he he :P
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Check the current rating on the cut out switches too. At 100Amps even 0.1ohms of resistance will give you a 10 volt drop. At full pull you are probably looking at several hundred amps :o The fewer connections the better and they do need to be good connections. One test you could do is to get it loaded up and test the voltage across the battery and then compare it to the voltage across the winch that will tell you how good your connections are and how adequate your wire is too. If you can test the voltage coming out of the alternator as well, that is likely to drop off a fair bit though because of its internal impedance.
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I want to limit the cables as that amount of power is going to be a fire risk.
I will have a look at it next week and decide the plan.
My ford alternator looks too big to fit the gap but we will see.
I have a carb version so no ECU for me.
I will find out what the top ampage my winch can pull and adust to that.
I will leave one battery in the front that the front winch conects to . the cable i have for the rear is tri rated and i stupid amount of amps like 3000.
also looks lke one of those wires on the plug goes back to the ECU on the injection model.
cheers for al your help will report back but its going to be a couple of weeks
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also looks lke one of those wires on the plug goes back to the ECU on the injection model.
I wouldn't have thought so but if its a thinner gauge of wire then it probably goes to the alternator warning light in the dash
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I know this topic is crazy old, but I need to know if those two wires coming from the alt plug can cause the alt to not charge. The alt tested good, but the battery is not charging and im wondering if they matter because they feel loose. Thanks.
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Yes they can - one of them supplies power to the voltage regulator and through it, the field coil in the alternator - if there is no field, there will be no output from the alternator. The second wire connects to the charge indicator.
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So could I just run a 12 volt signal to the wire? I have a feeling that the plug is faulty. Which individual slots do what? You could be a real lifesaver, this charging system has been killing me lately! I have put in so many new wires, and tested voltages more time that i can count!!
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Look at the plug - does it appear to have locations for three connectors (it should) - hold the plug so the third, empty slot is on top and the wires are towards you.
The wire to the left is the L or lamp terminal
The wire to the right is the IG or ignition terminal
The empty space is the D or dummy terminal.
Connect a battery positive to the output lug (via an ampere meter), connect battery negative to the alternator frame,connect the lamp between IG & L, and connect IG to the battery positive (it's usually connected to the ignition circuit) assuming the alternator is being turned, by an engine or other test source, if the alternator is working, the lamp should go out and the ampere meter should show a charge current.
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Well i connected a 12 volt source to the correct plug on the alternator and re-intsalled it. it still doesnt charge!! Can anyone help? I need the suzuki on the road yesterday and this is very disheartening. Any help is appreciated.
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have you not done a search for the alt upgrades? I know I did a write up on it... pics too i think, but I could be mistaken... search for it, it will come....
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But i dont need an upgrade, I need this one to work. When it was working I had plenty of amps. I just need my stock alt to work, not an upgrade.
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i don't screw around with alternators or starter motors anymore.
i buy rebuilt ones with warranty. much easier.
i do admire the desire to repair, however. good luck.
by the way- i use a stock alternator with a 2 battery system(boat switch).
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This alt has tested well three separate times, so i know the problem lies in the wiring, I am just no sure how it couldnt be charging with it spinning, a wire running from its output post to the battery + and a 12 volt signal being sent to the correct plug. How could it NOT be charging? Im feeling so lost.
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Any guesses guys? I have been searching alternator threads on three forums since the sun went down and still have no idea what I am going to do. the alt tested good, new wire running from charging post to battery positive, all grounds checked and new ones added. And a wire is running from the positive battery post to the ignition plug on the back of the alt. What is wrong? What am i missing? This is such a headache, hopefully someone saves me.
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But i dont need an upgrade, I need this one to work. When it was working I had plenty of amps. I just need my stock alt to work, not an upgrade.
i understand that, but the wiring is explained in there... so you would know what goes where and etc... sorry if i came across as an idiot
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Is this the original alternator or a replacement?
I've seen replacements that looked identical but needed a third connection (where the dummy terminal is) - after two swaps I ended up taking the car to an auto-electrician and he added a third terminal and spliced into one of the other two wires, but I couldn't tell you which one off the top of my head (and the car is not here for me to check)
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This is a junkyard replacement, did other year alts have different plugs on the alternator? Or where they all the same?
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As far as I know they're all the same.
I have another question - how do you know it's not charging? Are you using an ampere meter? Is your battery discharging? Are you using the charge light?
Here's why I ask - the replacement that I mentioned was supposedly a remanufactured Suzuki alternator and although it looked identical, bolted in and plugged in - the charge light never went off. I replaced it with an identical remanufactured unit and had the same problem and that's when I took the vehicle to the auto electrician.
We took the alternator off and tested it on a bench testing fixture and having verified it was working he then added the jumper wire I mentioned and also had to rewire a connection to a carb heater before the charge light would go off. The charge indicator appears to be off during the day, but is actually glowing very faintly, enough to be seen at night - I have since added an ampere meter to the dash so I can verify that the battery is being charged.
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I am using a multimeter to measure charge, so i know for sure it isnt charging. Even without the plug plugged into the alt at all I dont have a battery light, not that i care as long as i can get this thing to charge its damn battery.
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Anyone in the louisville area want to make some money? Im pulling my hair out and put in another alternator and still nothing. Ive added new grounds, new charging cable, Ran a 12 volt wire instead of the stock plug, and nothing. If anyone is local to louisville and wants to make a few bucks, let me know I am stumped beyond belief.