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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: xontros on March 04, 2005, 11:05:48 AM
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Is it possible to use the Anvil without using the Calmini lift?
Will I have problems with the lenght of the CV shafts?
I've just broken my 3th passenger-side CV shaft, cracking the diff cover too as always, and I think it's time to find a solution.
Mine is a '99 Santana Vitara 8v cabrio ('95 8v Kick for you I guess), having stronger front Kilen coils (from the 2l V6 Kick Sport) with RRO spacers on top and OME shocks (2' billet aluminium extensions available but not installed yet...).
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the anvil's position is the same as if u use the lowering brakets form the calmini 3" lift. i don't know if it will cause drive line issues though.
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I can't see why you would have any problems with the driveshafts. You might need the Calmini centre drop bracket to go with it though (good luck on getting that seperately, I couldn't get a replacement for mine :(). Do you have the OME struts or strut spacers? With that much lift you wouldn't have much wheel drop left.
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If you go with an XL-7 3rd member you can mount it without the snout drop bracket. ( see the Zigs Beef article in the archives) I dont know what other problems would come out of it without a lift though :-/
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I'd go for it. The best way to figure out if the axils length is not right would be to install the Anvil. Remove your front spring, hook up everything and see what the axil length looks like when the axil is straight across (closes point where the spindle and the will be).
If it's too tight you could widen the front end so that it would fit.
See http://www.zukiworld.com/month_120102/feature_hagan_frontendmod.htm
If it's too loose add spacers.
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I tested the 'spare' travel on mine by removing the springs and jacking the wishbones up until the shafts were horizontal. There was a little under 1/2" inward travel left. That should be the worst case but if the Anvil is a little wider you could have problems.
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OK, let me think about this...
Did I REMOVE the Calmini drop bracket, when I installed the Anvil? I THINK so!
You're breaking CV joints because you installed the RRO spacers (which increases CV angle) without dropping the diff (which decreases CV angle).
BUT - if you drop the diff, without putting longer A-arms in (the rest of the Calmini 3" lift), your outer axles will be TOO LONG. So you gotta get longer A-arms, or custom axles to drop the diff, and get the benefits of lowering the diff.
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But look at Wilds CV's. His have big extions on them and he's still running with stock arms.
I still say go for it. I bet it will fit.
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Thanks for your help guys. I feel that the reason I'm breaking the shafts and the diff cover is because I'm using coil spacers on top of the already stiff V6 springs, combined with the slightly longer OME shocks and the poor quality Spanish CV joint. Hooking everything up except springs would be the best way to test it.
From what you say, I think I'll have to relocate the stock A-arms outwards if I drop the diff 3''... Maybe a 2'' drop would let me use tha stock A-arms without problem?
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Hooking everything up except springs would be the best way to test it.
This is a good Idea. I do this with almost every suspension mod I do. Also keep in mind that less cv angle is always stronger. I also think the anvil would work.
Mike
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From what you say, I think I'll have to relocate the stock A-arms outwards if I drop the diff 3''... Maybe a 2'' drop would let me use tha stock A-arms without problem?
I doubt if you'll have any problems. Lowering the diff won't make the arms any longer. The worst case is when they go horizontal. After that they get shorter again.
I tested mine by removing the springs and jacking the wisbone up and done.
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Just had a thought, not sure thou ,,
The Calmini axle drop brackets , arent they only 2 inches anyway as they dont drop any lower than the subframe that the 3rd bolts too?
I dont have anything to compare it too but I know its a 3 inch kit but thats with the calmini A arms & strut spacers but they were limited on the axle drop due to the subframe.
Need someone to add a bit to that :-)
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Just had a thought, not sure thou ,,
The Calmini axle drop brackets , arent they only 2 inches anyway as they dont drop any lower than the subframe that the 3rd bolts too?
I dont have anything to compare it too but I know its a 3 inch kit but thats with the Calmini A arms & strut spacers but they were limited on the axle drop due to the subframe.
Need someone to add a bit to that :-)
Yeah, its a tricky one to measure. The Calmini brackets aren't a lot longer than the stock when you put them side by side but the angles are very different. This lets them drop the diff further. I reckon is somewhere between 2"  and  2 1/2". I have some pics somewhere I think.
I am not entirely clear on what you mean by shock extensions. Do you have spacers on top of the struts? You need them with a lifted Track/Kick.
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I doubt if you'll have any problems. Lowering the diff won't make the arms any longer. The worst case is when they go horizontal. After that they get shorter again.
I tested mine by removing the springs and jacking the wisbone up and done.
That's the problem they told me! The shafts may be ok when the A-arms are horizontal, but will be too long when the A-arms drop down, so they may not leave the A-arm to drop fully.
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I am not entirely clear on what you mean by shock extensions. Do you have spacers on top of the struts? You need them with a lifted Track/Kick.
That's what I meant, 2'' alu spacers that bolt on top of the strut. If I use them now without lowering the diff, they wil let the right A-arm to drop furhter down, and probably break the CV shaft once more.
Btw, do US Kicks have a right CV shaft with 26-spline on the diff side??? I suspect they would be different than my 1999 Spanish Vit
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I think you have it backwards. As long as they don't bottom out (the axils CV's) when their horizontal, you will only gain by lowering your diff.
The only reason we don't lower it any farther is that, 1 the cross member is in the way and 2 to lowered diff any farther might get it cought on stuff.
So, with the lowered diff (Anvil) you will have less angle on your axils and have longer CV life. If you were to raised your diff from the stock location then your axils might extend too far and stop travel but most likely just break.
GO FOR IT!
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Well, the Anvil has finally been postponed for some time, but I got a GV steel front diff cover from a friend. I hope this will last longer :D
If only I had a right-side stronger and more flexible CV shaft :-/ I think that the inner CV-joint on the right side of my Spanish Vitara (Sidekick) is a different design that the one in the US Kicks, I guess yours is like the left one.
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That's what I meant, 2'' alu spacers that bolt on top of the strut. If I use them now without lowering the diff, they wil let the right A-arm to drop furhter down, and probably break the CV shaft once more.
Btw, do US Kicks have a right CV shaft with 26-spline on the diff side???  I suspect they would be different than my 1999 Spanish Vit
I never had any problems with 2" strut spacers on my 2000 Spanish built model with 26 spline shafts. Thats with the stock length struts though, if you have the OME stuts you will only be able to go another 1/2".  I think all the later Vit/Track/Kicks had the 26 spline shafts. The spacers will allow the CVs to go to more of an angle but how often you break them seems to vary a lot with driving style and tyre choice. The Zuk 4wd system relies on wheelspin to equalise the travel between axles when turning. If you get it into a situation where it bneeds to spin and can't its easy to break something - oh, and landing from jumps is a big CV killer too.
I took some pics of the diff drop brackets when I was going to fit a full Calmini kit to mine I will post the link. There are also some that show why you can't fit the Calmini wishbones without the drop brackets. When the weather improves I will try the drop brackets without the wishbones. I think this will give the best possible articulation when used with the OME struts I also bought, unless I find some longer shafts.
http://uk.msnusers.com/Brooklands/shoebox.msnw
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I think that the inner CV-joint on the right side of my Spanish Vitara (Sidekick)  is a different design that the one in the US Kicks, I guess yours is like the left one.
I believe they are all the same and the US sidekick R/H/S C/V is still the same push in type C/V.
The Anvil is the only set up I know of that accepts the L/H 3 bolt flange type C/V on the R/H/S. Although I think IIRC there are a few guys with custom made R/H inner stub axles that accept the L/H axle too that I've seen on the web.
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I believe they are all the same and the US sidekick  R/H/S C/V is still the same push in type C/V.
The Anvil is the only set up I know of that accepts the L/H 3 bolt flange type C/V on the R/H/S. Although I think IIRC there are a few guys with custom made R/H inner stub axles that accept the L/H axle too that I've seen on the web.
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...and mine will too in a few more days ;D
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I was going to make my own too and use one of the steel GV housing I have instead of the Anvil, but then I decided WTF and just ordered the Anvil.
Is your's just a machined down C/V with a flange welded to it ? thats what I was thinking of doing.
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Nope, GV housing with a piece of billet machined to take a bearing and seal and a machined down left side shaft with a recut spline. Can be put back to stock if needed.
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Nope, GV housing with a piece of billet machined to take a bearing and seal and a machined down left side shaft with a recut spline. Can be put back to stock if needed.
PICS!!!!!!!
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yes, pics!!
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yea PICS! you have my intrest...
stu
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I believe they are all the same and the US sidekick R/H/S C/V is still the same push in type C/V.
If they are all the same, then why so much fuss about the left ones?
(http://www.rock4xfabrication.com/images/tora/torasneak.jpg)
These are supposed to be the strong ones, altough I've broken 2... I'd be very happy if I could have the same type of CV on the right side too!
Waiting for pics too ;D
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Just read Kerry's post on the other thread, and the mystery was solved. Apparently these were intended only for the Anvil.
So, is there any hope with a poor man's Anvil that will accept a left side shaft on the right side ???
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Guy called Nick aka(ningram) runs an adapter in his to allow a passenger axle on the driver side, I will be running one shortly to, as soon as i get some life out of my driver axle.
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Just read Kerry's post on the other thread, and the mystery was solved. Apparently these were intended only for the Anvil.
So, is there any hope with a poor man's Anvil that will accept a left side shaft on the right side  ???
Have you seen the Mike Hagen article here on Zukiworld? In the Article Archive (look down)
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Guy called Nick aka(ningram)  runs an adapter in his to allow a passenger axle on the driver side,  I will be running one shortly to, as soon as i get some life out of my driver axle.
Yeah, I tried to find out about this mod but got nowhere so just decided to create my own. I wanted to run a bearing as well on this side, that's why I didn't go the easy route of simply cutting and welding a LHS flange to a RHS cut down CV stub axle. We'll see if I got it right or wrong. Won't be installed till after Easter and yes I'll take pics.
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Have you seen the Mike Hagen article here on Zukiworld? In the Article Archive (look down)
Yes I have, but these cars were never imported to Greece :-/
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OK, now (I think...) I have everything: a steel GV diff cover, an exploded RHS CV (more than one actually), a complete LHS axle, and a complete RHS axle just to measure how long it should be.
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/P4140212_sized.JPG)
The aim is to cut the LHS triangular flange and the RHS CV, weld them together, and bolt a LHS axle on the right side. I won't try longer diff brackets for now, as I believe they will not work with the normal A-arms...
But it looks like the flange is going to hit the lower bolt of the diff bracket... Should I weld the right diff bracket on the diff instead of bolting it? Any other suggestions?
And it seems that I have pics of the completed setup on my PC, but I can't remember where I found them or who posted them ::)
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Countersunk bolts should do it.
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Studs maybe? If the flange is thick enough counter bore the holes and use studs for a flush finish.
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I'll have to use studs on the triangular flange anyway, I have no other choice ::)
If I don't find the right countersunk bolt for the RHS diff bracket, maybe I'll also use a wider stud bolted on the lower hole and make the bracket bolt directly to the stud ???
The pics I had were from Mike's (Ford ?) setup, and I see that diff brackets were welded, maybe to have the necessary clearance between the flange and the diff.
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Well, it's finally ready :) Can't wait to put it in place and see what happens, as the new "split" RHS axle had to be around 6-8mm longer than an ordinary one :-/
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Well, it's finally ready :) Can't wait to put it in place and see what happens, as the new "split" RHS axle had to be around 6-8mm longer than an ordinary one  :-/
I checked the clearance on my driveshafts very carefully. I removed the spring and jacked up the wishbone swinging the steering from left to right as I did so. I reckon there was about 10mm spare travel back into the CV so it will be pretty tight but you should get away with it.
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Well, months have passed, but I didn't have the chance to test it as much as I want. Let's see how much it will hold...
(http://www.to4x4.gr/gallery/albums/xontrosCV/P4180227.jpg)
(http://www.to4x4.gr/gallery/albums/xontrosCV/P4180221_sized.jpg)
(http://www.to4x4.gr/gallery/albums/xontrosCV/P4180220.jpg)
(http://www.to4x4.gr/gallery/albums/xontrosCV/P4180224_sized.jpg)
(http://www.to4x4.gr/gallery/albums/xontrosCV/P4200243_sized.jpg)
A huge "Thank You" to all you guys who gave me feedback :)
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The dual LHS shaft setup is still holding up pretty well untill now, but I'd really like to ease the CV angle a bit, it's like 30 degrees or so. Any ideas on lowering the diff just a bit without running into problems with A-arm length or CV shaft length?
Someone told me to cut the bushing of the central support and leave just the one half, would it make a difference at all ???
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The dual LHS shaft setup is still holding up pretty well untill now, but I'd really like to ease the CV angle a bit, it's like 30 degrees or so. Any ideas on lowering the diff just a bit without running into problems with A-arm length or CV shaft length?
Someone told me to cut the bushing of the central support and leave just the one half, would it make a difference at all ???
I don't think you'll have any problems lowering the diff without changing either the A arms or the CVs. There were some pics of some lowering brackets posted IIRC they left the centre bracket stock.
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Hi,
Maybe this will helps you.
I had the same problems obout my CV's. Every time i broken the front stuf. I have now lower my front diff and i have no problems more. On my website can you see by "techniek" and than you click on "vooras verlagen"on the right side of my picture. You can see how i lower the front diff and my cv's are now in the perfct position.
Greats, de Ploeteraar