ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Skunk on April 04, 2005, 04:55:41 PM
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OK, Ive decided to do a SAS on my 94 Tracker, it just aint worth it to beef up the IFS... anyway... Im pickin up a set of Toyota axles, front and rear 4:10's (for now), here are my questions.....
1. driveshafts... the slips in the t-case... did/does anyone had/have any problems with this? and what would you recommend for this? (btw, this will be a leaf spring setup with the shackles in the front on the front axle and shackles in the rear on the rear axle)
2. what leaf packs (front and rear) work best in this situation?
3. should I look out for anything on this vehicle when welding the spring mounts to the frame?
4. would the stock steering box work? if not, what box works best and would I need a new pump with a new box? (Im guessing I would, altho didnt with my Xplorer SAS)
5. brake lines.... what, if any changes would need to be made to accomodate the Toy axles?
anything else you can think of that I might run into along the way feel free to let me know. This will be getting underway within the next few weeks.
Thanx for your time.
Chris
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OK, Ive decided to do a SAS on my 94 Tracker, it just aint worth it to beef up the IFS... anyway... Im pickin up a set of Toyota axles, front and rear 4:10's (for now), here are my questions.....
1. driveshafts... the slips in the t-case... did/does anyone had/have any problems with this? and what would you recommend for this? (btw, this will be a leaf spring setup with the shackles in the front on the front axle and shackles in the rear on the rear axle)
2. what leaf packs (front and rear) work best in this situation?
3. should I look out for anything on this vehicle when welding the spring mounts to the frame?
4. would the stock steering box work? if not, what box works best and would I need a new pump with a new box? (Im guessing I would, altho didnt with my Xplorer SAS)
5. brake lines.... what, if any changes would need to be made to accomodate the Toy axles?
anything else you can think of that I might run into along the way feel free to let me know. This will be getting underway within the next few weeks.
Thanx for your time.
Chris
See Heathers rig ;D
http://www.granitepath.com/friends/kd7hcg/pictures/SAS/index.html
Should have some answers for ya there.
To deal with the slip yoke thingie, They went with a Kickker 3
http://www.granitepath.com/friends/kd7hcg/pictures/SAS/OTTstuff/index.html
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yep... that answered a few questions... but that looks like they did it the $large$ way.... cash flow is a bit lower in my neck of the woods.... came up a few ideas tho...
like the driveshafts.... take a stock shaft, add a standard 8" slip joint on the lower end, and simply spring load it as to push it apart so when it flexes, the lower slip will be forced to travel instead of the upper..... or simply strap it, use limiting straps from the spring hanger to the axle to limit how much foward travel there is.....
I dunno... ill figure something out.... I was the first to do a SAS on a second generation explorer a few years back, and I figured it out from scratch..... so this shouldnt be too hard.
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If I recall right. The Galvins used a Toyota extended brakelines. The same size fittings. but don't quote me on that.
And about the spring loaded drivelines.
GOOD IDEA. ;D
but will it work?
Sure, why not?
So True.
"O" wait, I'm talking to myself aren't I?
Ya!
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J B weld that Bad boy in there. ;D
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drill and tap the t-cse output shftshafts and drill the slip yoke. i dn't remember the bolt size the fit the slip yoke drive shaft to it good luck.
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OK, Ive decided to do a SAS on my 94 Tracker, it just aint worth it to beef up the IFS... anyway... Im pickin up a set of Toyota axles, front and rear 4:10's (for now), here are my questions.....
1. driveshafts... the slips in the t-case... did/does anyone had/have any problems with this?
one word, kicker3. no more problem ;D
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im running the slipyokes ,ive got a rear 2door driveshaft shortned for the front and a 4door driveshaft shortned in the rear , if your doing a 4door it mite not work in the rear . it may not work anyway since your diong leafs. i did have to grind the front driveshaft for clearence of the u joints under flex . extended brakelines will work .
and drilling the output shaft isnt that easy.
im also using a toy ifs steering box.
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0317.JPG)
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You might want to have custom drive lines made with high clearence u-joints.
The lwb toyotas have good ones, check your local auto salvage yard.
~Nate
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drilling the output shaft isnt that easy.
What did you use to drill the output shaft ?
What size hole did you start with ? end up with ?
what thread did you tap it to ?
Wild
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im running the slipyokes ,ive got a rear 2door driveshaft shortned for the front and a 4door driveshaft shortned in the rear , if your doing a 4door it mite not work in the rear . it may not work anyway since your diong leafs. i did have to grind the front driveshaft for clearence of the u joints under flex . extended brakelines will work .
and drilling the output shaft isnt that easy.
im also using a toy ifs steering box.
([url]http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0317.JPG[/url])
Got anymore pics or details on your SAS?
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What did you use to drill the output shaft ?
What size hole did you start with ? end up with ?
what thread did you tap it to ?
Wild
i havent found a drillbit that willdo it .im going to go with 3/8 finethread . i have to take the shafts out of the case to have them turned on a lathe and tooling for the lathe is more prevlent . im just going to drill the shafts and silversoder a 3/8 finethread bolt in the hole . i have my slip /flanges done just have to do the shafts now
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Got anymore pics or details on your SAS?
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0316.JPG)
the drivers side has a sleve at the top and uses samurai shackel bushings.
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0318.JPG)
showing the 3/4"heim joint and high misalignment bushing (http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0319.JPG)
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0320.JPG)
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0321.JPG)
showing panhard and steering linkige
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(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0322.JPG)
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0323.JPG)
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0324.JPG)
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0326.JPG)
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(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0327.JPG)
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0328.JPG)
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0329.JPG)
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(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0330.JPG)
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0331.JPG)
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0332.JPG)
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0333.JPG)
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0334.JPG)
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0335.JPG)
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(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0336.JPG)
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0337.JPG)
any ?s you have ill be glad to anser . their are at least 2 things i would change . the rite side trailing arm has a wider hole center to give the axel some regidity so i had to space the left side spring up with 11/2" squair tube to get the same installed hight on the spring . i would keep the same hole centers but made the plates on the left 11/2"longer. and the link mounts on the rear would have ben flush with the bottom of the frame , i plan on changeing that one .
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mesjr2004, you have your suspension setup the same way I plan to... 2 link front w/ panhard and 3 link rear, correct? Do you think you could throw out the lengths of the links that you used?
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on the passenger side
center of bottom hole to center of heim hole 27 1/2"
center of top hole to center of heimjoint hole 26 3/4"
i extended the rear lower link to 35'' center to center.
if i can help with anything else let me know
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nice pics there.... now the all time question... which is better... leafs or coils for the tracker??? and why???
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nice pics there.... now the all time question... which is better... leafs or coils for the tracker??? and why???
i think its personal preference ,the coils are easy to tune (spring rates ,and length of springs ,as long as you dont use a vehicle specific coil). and i think its looks cleaner ,no shackles showing in the front or rear . but leaves have less moveing parts that may break, bend or wear out .i started a sas 4door with leaves and didnt like the looks of it so i quit working on it and will probably go with coils on it . but i like heathers rig .
unless you could get two trackers together that are equiped similar but one with leaves and one with coils we may never know ???
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nice pics there.... now the all time question... which is better... leafs or coils for the tracker??? and why???
I'd say that coils would be the better route. You could get lots more flex out of coils, due to the nature of the design.
Remember that leaf springs were used on buggies drawn behind horses. And coils are the new high-tech answer.
The only down side is that you may need access to a good coil fabricator (make your own coils easily/cheaply), and lots of 'know-how' to engineer proper linkage, (AKA time) to get a coil suspension setup right.
Not many people have access to those resources so leaves are the cheap and easy alternative.
~Nate
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the coils are cheep like $65 a piece the heims and misalignment bushings and the dom tube are what costs. www.spidertrax.com
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the coils are cheep like $65 a piece the heims and misalignment bushings and the dom tube are what costs. www.spidertrax.com
Did you get your coils from Spidertrax? What length and spring rate?
Also, you said you extended the lower links to 35"... did you use the stock rear suspension with a new upper link and lengthened lower links or what?
It's crazy how a heim and misalignment bushing costs about the same as a coil. :o
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yes i got the springs and bushings from spidertrax . the front are 175lb x16" the rears are 150lb x 16"
the heim joints i got off of ebay. be careful they have some crap and some good ones read and get the load rateings and a good brand i got them for around $20-35 a pair . once you find good ones buy a couple extra to carry as spairs .
the rear i cut the tracker trailing arm mounts and axel tube and welded it to the toy axel tube . and mounted a bucket on the toy spring perch . the stock spring mount was cut off of the frame ass well as the shock mount and i made a new mount and bucket for the spring and shock. the rear axel was pushed back 2" and the front was pushed foward about 2" i used the stock mounts for the top link on the rear and made a new top link that goes to the axel(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0339.JPG)
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0340.JPG)
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/Pict0341.JPG)
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Just out of curiosity, do you use your's as a daily driver? Wouldn't it flex a little easier if you put the springs under the frame? That's what I'm thinking about doing... is there any reason I shouldn't (mine will not be used on the road)?
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Just out of curiosity, do you use your's as a daily driver? Wouldn't it flex a little easier if you put the springs under the frame? That's what I'm thinking about doing... is there any reason I shouldn't (mine will not be used on the road)?
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it would flex easier if the springs were in a little more but it flexes great now ,and it is more stable around corners and on off camber hills etc. i dont have a sway bar ,and dont feel i need one . and i dont use this as a  DD .if i didnt have to get on the interstate i could ,anything over 60mph makes me a little nervous . bot i do tool around town in it
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/marshel pics 7.jpg)
(http://www.omghi2.us/april05/FH000003_edited.jpg)
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I think if you got much more flex than that on a rig of that wheelbase I think the driveshafts would pull out!
Mike
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I think coils are the best because of the varity of rates sizes & so on. my self am going to take IFS as far as i can bigger better tons of flex. solid axles, the easy way out. but i like a good challenge.i love to build&fab. things. IFS can be beefed up stay tooned for trakoyota axles will be comming soon. real beefy IFS axles.
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You're using the slipyokes still? :o
Mind snapping some pics of the yoke at the t-case under flex to show us where it's at? Are you very close to popping them out?
Also, if you don't mind, what are your shock lengths?
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You're using the slipyokes still? :o
Mind snapping some pics of the yoke at the t-case under flex to show us where it's at? Are you very close to popping them out?
Also, if you don't mind, what are your shock lengths?
no way to flex it up at home . i dont pull the slipyokes out . the trailing arm mounts in the front are pretty close to the u joint center line and the rear never gows farther out than ride hight empty . but the u joints in the front are screaming in agony wile flexed up with the passenger side droped out . shock lengths are 13.5,or 14"
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I think coils are the best because of the varity of rates sizes & so on. my self am going to take IFS as far as i can bigger better tons of flex. solid axles, the easy way out. but i like a good challenge.i love to build&fab. things. IFS can be beefed up stay tooned for trakoyota axles will be comming soon. real beefy IFS axles.    ÂÂ
I think that there are quite a few of us waiting to hear more on your trakoyota axles. Got a timeframe?
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no way to flex it up at home . i dont pull the slipyokes out . the trailing arm mounts in the front are pretty close to the u joint center line and the rear never gows farther out than ride hight empty . but the u joints in the front are screaming in agony wile flexed up with the passenger side droped out . shock lengths are 13.5,or 14"
That's pretty crazy... I think I'm still going to end up using slipjoint driveshafts, though, since I'm swapping out the whole drivetrain (Datsun 4cyl, 5spd and divorced transfer case on top of the cruiser axles) and the divorced t-case has fixed flanges on the outputs.
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thats why i made my sye's i wanted to keep as much of the engine and trans and transfer as possable . i would have loved to keep it all zuki stuff but the sammy axels werent even a option, and i wasnt even going to call calmini for stuff . i will start working on a ifs but i have 2 projects in front of it .