ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Model Specific Suzuki Forum => Suzuki Grand Vitara, Vitara, Chevy Tracker (Gen. 2 Platform) 1999-2005 => Topic started by: gv1600 on April 04, 2005, 07:31:34 AM
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Hi everybody!
i,m planning to install a locker in the rear axle of my GV 1600cc 2003 model.
my plan is to put a LOCK-RIGHT locker, but i dont know if i can put it in without any problem.
as i know there is a lock-right locker for Vitara's but i,m not sure if it will fit to my GV.
i think that there will be no problem, but i,m still searching about it.
is there anybody who tried to put that locker to a GV and can tell me about it?
any differences between vitara's and grand vitara's in the rear axle except the R/P and sometimes the axle shafts?
thanks anyway!!
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I think the third member is different, though I'm not sure. I'm not sure if it wil be a bolt on installation (I don't think so:-/).
I wanted (and still want to when I have some cash) to do the same as you, I would be very interested in hearing about it...
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The Third member is the same. Its the R/P that may be different. In my 2003 V6 I used the R/P from a vitara.
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yes, the R/P might be different and the third member as i know is the same as vitara's.
my GV has R/P 5,12, 12 bolts, but i just wonder if there is something else that i miss and can not put it on.
today i received a mail from calmini stuff and they said that they can be sure about lock-right locker only for GV up to 2001 models.
but, are there any differences between 2001 and 2003 GV models? ÂÂ
hhmmmm.....  i think that there are No differences except R/P.
i,m waiting for anybody else who can help a bit more and correct anything wrong i write here!!
thanks  ;)
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hi all.!!
need some help!!
i finally bought the LOCK-RIGHT for the GV (1600cc-3d-2003mod) and we installed it yesterday evening. all was done fine (utill the road check) but finally something we did wrong when we were installing it.
so, the Right axle shaft is always locked and the Left axle shaft sometimes locks and some NOT.
i dont even listen to that noice (clank-clank) when turning or giving more speed, and also when i drive straight the car is moved from the right axle shaft as i understand ,and a few times from right+left both locked.
imagine that u drive straight and u have 2nd gear in about 3000rpm, ...............if straight road, the car must be locked from left and right axles,right?
then when we still have 2nd gear and about 3000rpm and u try to press the gas pedal the car
suddenly moves to the left side of the road and its a bit difficult to handle it, and if u leave the gas pedal the car suddenly moves to the right side of the road!!!!!
i know that this is not normal.
i beleive that locker tries to work but something is wrong and it cant do it correct most of the times.
i have 2 washers in each coupler, do i need to remove one and give more space there,????
what are you guys with VITARAS have done with the washers? u continue usiing the factory 2 washers or u moved the one away and kept the thinner one onto the coupler???
i believe that there must be the problem (washers maybe), but dont know what to do with it.
do i have to remove one from each side and test it again? do i MUST use both washers in each side as from factory???????
also i have a little problem with the gears.....when trying to change from 1st to 2nd or else, something goes wrong in the carrier (a deep short sound, but i dont know excactly)
and that problem in the carrier goes also to the gears.
any ideas????
any help and options please????
thanks in advance!!!
vasilis
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Did u check the clearances cause the right side is the cage side i believe and maybe its too much presure and sill not realease
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i didnt check the clearances cause after the intsallation in the carrier i couldnt see anything in there.
some guys told me that i have to use only one washer for each side and not both 2 washers for each side.
one washer is a bit roundy, something like "(" and the other is straight "l" .
so the "roundy" washer makes that problem.
i pushed the drivers up and down when intalling and they were ok.
the springs of the locker are OK, but the 2 washers i used, didnt let the drivers and the pins to work propely from each side but mostly from the drivers side (left).
people that put lockers like lock-right told me to use only the "l" (straight) washer.
i ll try it and check it out.
ps. sorry for my english but i hope that u ll understand what i mean.
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You should only be using the straight or flat washers. 8)
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i ve tried both...even the 2 washers in each side , or the 1 only (flat), or the other 1 ("roundy") but nothing.
when i used only 1 washer from each side no matter which washer was that, the axle shafts didnt lock at all, or move!!! nothing at all !!
imagine that the ring and rinion moved correctly but the axle shafts had no move!!!!
no clink-clank or else, at all!!!
in the situation i described above we were using the lock-right couplers and not the stock ones.
the only thing that he havent done yet is to try it with the stock couplers and 2 washers from each side, or one washer from each side.
i think that the problem may be with the new couplers, an they cant work properly.
i have to check that also and see whats going on after.
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Finally i didnt manage to put the lock-rite in the rear of my car....... dont know what was wrong but in thinking of putting the calmini LSD.
Its just an idea cause i dont really finalize my thoughts.
Maybe an ARB in a kick's third will be good....but dont know.
So, has anybody tried that LSD in the rear?
Is it bolt on without changing the stock third member?
I know its very good for kick's but i just want to know how is it in GV's and if it will fit to my car too.
Waiting your answers,
Vasilis. :)
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my '99 GV has the original (calmini) LSD diff, i think it's ok -but i would rather go for the lockright if you use your car for serious offroading.
if/when you get stuck in mud or snow and try to spin out, the clutch will wear out very quick. >:(
the lockright is harder on the axles. :(
so, are you using the car mainly on or offroad?
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Hi beerman,
I use the car both ways, on/off road.
My style for offroading is the trial, so a lock-right will be much helpfull for me, but i didnt manage to put it as i wrote above.
The calmini LSD will be ok, if i put at the frond diff one too, and have 2 LSD's.
That combination is very adventaged for me and the places that i drive when going off road.
We ll see.....
Are u satisfied with the LSD?
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i'm also looking for a LSD to put up front, but those bastards that constructed the car made different front and rear diff's >:(
if you got a part number on a lsd that fits the front diff, PLEASE let me know.
i spoke to several dealers at a show to day, they didn't know if it even existed for GV.
for my use, 99% road. the LSD works ok.
but in deep snow i whould like somthing better. ARB is another option, the best?
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this is the only front locker i have found for vitara, but i don't think it's for GV :'(
http://www.trailtough.com/sidekick.htm
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Last I knew the front diff off of a GV was the same as a Vitara. It's the rears where they are different and only after some point in '03.
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but are the splines the same? size/number of splines?
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From what I've gathered, yes.
The rears are where things changed as far as I can tell.
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so then, mabye this locker fit's my car? http://www.trailtough.com/sidekick.htm
but is this a lockright type of diff? how is it to use in a car that is mainly used on-road?
it's got to be hard on the axels?
and, doesn't it sound better to have a lsd in front and a lockright in the rear?
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Personally I feel that limited slips are a waste. Save your money for an ARB.
Yes, a locker is harder on driveline components than a limited slip or an open diff. However it gains you so much more traction. Limited slips are so limited in their capabilities offroad they're nearly worthless.
I'd bet Trail Tough's modified Lock Right would work fine, yes.
My ideal setup for a daily driver is a locker or spool in the rear axle and an open diff in the front. If I had all kinds of money (I don't) there'd be selectable lockers front and rear.
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Hi,
As fas as i know, its possible to put LSD at frond of a Vitara or GV, but they must have 26 spline axles.
As i know all the frond diffs have 10 bolt rings and Calmini sales an LSD for 10 bolt rings, so i think that there will be no problem.
My GV is a '03, 5,12's and 26 spline axles.
I recently changed the frond aloum diff housing and third to a steel one from V6.
A friend i have here, used to have a frond LSD in his Vitara with no problem at all.
I also believe that the trailtough frond locker will be ok for a GV too, but u must upgrade your housing and third if u want them to last longer.
A very good option will be 2 ARB's but i,m afraid of the instalation, especially for the frond diff.
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I don't know for sure if Trailtough's locker would work in our GV. I can't see why not, seeing that many people using sidekicks use the GV housings.
For a DD, an autolocker like that one could be used with freewheeling hubs. That way, on road it would be as if it wasn't there ;D. For the rear an autolocker would be nice too, but I see it doesn't work >:(.
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The problem with any full time traction adder (limited slip, locker, spool, welded, etc) up front is that if you live in a climate (snow, ice, slush, etc) where you might need to run 4x4 up front it can get interesting while trying to steer and use 4x4. That's why I won't put one in the front of my trucks. I don't wheel hard enough to need a front locker and I drive too much to deal with the penalties of it.
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i have also thougt about that problem, (snow & ice)
mabye it's best to leave it and save for a ARB...
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My solution for the GV will either be waiting for someone to make/adapt a locker that fits or switch to a different yet similar strength axle. A Ford 9" appeals to me.
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mabye it's easyest to get a toyota for winter use, my mother bougt a new '06 hi-lux -great car!
but i really like my little suzuki TD!
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Yeah sure, got $25,000 US? :P
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i live in Norway, prices run a little higer here :'(
and you are not allowed to modify your car as you want >:(
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That sucks. It varies here from place to place. There's always rules on mods but in some places they are simply rules for safety and in others they're super draconian stupid laws written by people that didn't know what they were doing.
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My solution for the GV will either be waiting for someone to make/adapt a locker that fits or switch to a different yet similar strength axle. A Ford 9" appeals to me.
For the rear you can put a sidekick 3rd on it and put lsd, locker, or an ARB. This also opens up the door for gears ;D
George
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Late '03 up use a different rear axle than the earlier GV's which used the same rear as Kicks/Tracks. However it's still different than the XL7 diff. Don't know what the difference is but every place with a locker that fits the early ones says it's different and won't work.
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Except ARB, they say that theirs will work up to 2005. Maybe they don't know about the change though.
About these differences, what can they be?
I've never seen any real differences... Whenever I catch someone with a 2002 or earlier GV I'll have a good look.
Apart from the Ford 9", how about a 4Runner rear axle? There is a 4,88 ratio that would match a front 4,88 diff from Suzuki right? Another thing would be finding them... It would probably be easier than a Ford here in Europe, though...
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I'm not sure on the differences, I just keep hearing that. I think they went to a bigger ring gear and such in '02-'03. From what I gathered you could swap in a Kick/Track/Vit diff but it'd be stepping down in size from what we have now. Just doesn't seem right.
Hmmm.....I'll have to check out the ARB site.
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I always hear people to say that if i want to use an ARB or Lock-right or ect... i must get the rear Kick diff.
Look at this 1998 GV 2000cc with an ARB...... has a Kick's rear diff.
(http://www.makisport.com/images/projects/Grand_Vitara/grand_vitara_6.jpg)
So i believe that we have to get a kick's rear diff, if we want to have a nice working locker or else.
I don't really know about the differences either.
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We have been trying to fit an ARB in the rear in a '01 model GV with 4.875 gears and we can't find a ring gear with the right internal diameter even in the 2.0 auto Kick(Sport) that ran these gears as the they are 10mm smaller than the normal Kick ring gear. The GV seems to run a smaller carrier at least for this diff gear. Yes, it could be machined out but the problem is that they also changed the offset for the pinion and that is a major machining job to remedy. It seems that everyone I have come across with a 4.875 has swapped to 5.125 at the same time.
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I always hear people to say that if i want to use an ARB or Lock-right or ect... i must get the rear Kick diff.
Look at this 1998 GV 2000cc with an ARB...... has a Kick's rear diff.
([url]http://www.makisport.com/images/projects/Grand_Vitara/grand_vitara_6.jpg[/url])
So i believe that we have to get a kick's rear diff, if we want to have a nice working locker or else.
I don't really know about the differences either.
You know, here in the States there never was a 1.6L or 2 door Grand Vitara. I think the 1.6L left us with the older body style. The Vitaras were available with 4 cyls and V6's and were generally "dressed down". I wonder if your 4-cyl GV has the same rear axle as a Kick/Vitara/pre-'03 GV?
I'd love lower gears along with a rear locker. I just want to be sure that I'm not loosing strength in the process. :P
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Didn't Gear have front and rear ARBs? Maybe he can explain what he did to make them fit ;)
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What measurements do you have CJ?
What is the ring gear diameter for a GV?
How many bolts? 12 right?
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Yes, 12 bolts and same PCD but the I.D is 108mm and needs to be 118mm to fit the ARB. The Kick R&P's bolt straight on. We're going with 5.125's now so we can fit front and rear ARB's.
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Didn't Gear have front and rear ARBs? Maybe he can explain what he did to make them fit ;)
Gear swapped to Kick/Track/Escudo 3rds. I remember reading that. If I remember correctly he also broke stuff too. :P
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Gear swapped to Kick/Track/Escudo 3rds. I remember reading that. If I remember correctly he also broke stuff too. :P
Yes but he wasn't breaking anything in the diff, it was his axles. If I remember correctly he started breaking CV's after his Calmini diff drop bracket cracked allowing the diff to move around too much. After removing the the diff drop bracket he started breaking rear axles; they would just shear off at the splines where they taper down to the same size as the original trackick axles. :-\
If you are interested, read......... about his saga here.
http://www.nbs4x4club.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=120
Makes me wonder if anyone ever tried the suggestion that was floating around for a while. Swap out the side gears in the rear axle and use custom axle shafts that are the same diameter as a dana44.
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anyone used unimog axles?