ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Digger on July 17, 2005, 05:20:22 PM
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I managed to blow up the Goblin's front diff today. The pinion carrier snapped completely off the whole way around the pinion, allowing the housing to swing free, hanging from the end mounts! For now I think I'll just swap Silver's diff into the Goblin while Silver awaits the frame shop, but then I think I want to try to upgrade it if possible. What year/make of donor vehicle do I need to salvage the pinion carrier out of that will fit the stock Tracker housing and the stock Tracker diff, while being steel and stronger than stock? Any help would be appreciated. I searched and found some info, but most of it involved adding the Anvil, which wont fit without the Calmini 3" suspension kit and I can't afford right now, anyways! LOL!
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That magazine article had you out showing off ehh ??
;)
Wild
Oh, any steel 3rd will fit the housing
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I thought I read somewhere about GV's and XL7's having different mounts to the crossmember ??? Also I read Zig's Anvil Install article and he removed the tie-rods and struts. It looks like I can sneak it out of there by just unbolting the driveshaft and left side cv flanges from the housing, then removing the housing mounting bolts. It should drop right out, dis-engaging the right cv after/as I drop it, right? Or is there something in the way?
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Well it's easier to remove the whole thing
(housing and 3rd member) at the same time,
and to get it out the center link is just in the
way to keep it hung up.
Drop the center link, and it will come out much
easier, the aluminum front assy is heavy enough,
the steel one is going to be a 2 man job, just so
you don't get squished if it gets out of control ;)
Good Luck
Wild
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Cool, thanks for the info and advice! ;D
I thought I read somewhere about GV's and XL7's having different mounts to the crossmember ???
So what all makes and years of vehicles have the steel third carrier? And what about the mounts to the cross member?
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I don't remember reading about the years
that fit, I thought the GVs all fit the Track/Kick
front housings, you might need to get new
mounts (rubber) but I don't know
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http://www.zukiworld.com/month_020103/feature_frontendupgradeswithhagen.htm
From which I recall. THe steel front 3rd was from a 99-2001 5spd GV
My front snout was differant so I had to redrill the holes for my mount.
Still working tho.
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If I get the steel third from a 5sp 99-01 GV, would it have 5.12's in it or will I have to transfer the diff from a similar tracker?
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If I get the steel third from a 5sp 99-01 GV, would it have 5.12's in it or will I have to transfer the diff from a similar tracker?
it would have 4.3 ratio's. you use any year gv, ive got an 03 in the front of my 89 swb vitara
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So I just want to be sure of my shopping list here. If I want to end up with a steel housing and 26 spline shafts, I'll need:
1. A steel full housing from any year GV(housing and third case)
2. The right cv, left inner axle shaft and diff (everything inside the housing) from a 95&up 5 speed Track/kick(so I get the right 5.12 R&P as well as 26 spline shafts)
And I'll need to have the diff with the 5.12 gears installed into the GV housing so the mesh and backlash is set correctly.
Then I just put it all together and bolt it into my Tracker, right?
Am I missing anything here?(aside from the front ARB Air Locker I can't afford :()
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I believe the 96 and ups have the 26 splines.
and you will need to find a rear sammie center section machined out to fit the kicks axle.
THats also, I believe, to be avilable from Hawks Suzuki.
I got mine form a friend who installed an ARB up front and didn't need his anymore.
BTW. The Sammies rear center section has 4 spider gears where the kicks only have 2.
And since youll be running the 5:12s, you'll also need the pin can thingie that holds the spider gears pins in. (5:12s are too small to hold the pins in)
Cuase, If you broke yours, the spider gears will be bent ever so slightly and cause problems later.
It's hard to tell but learning by my freinds mistake. He's had to replace his front gears more than once to discover that problem.
Quote from article:Front end modifications for the Suzuki Sidekick
You will need a ring and pinion retainer sleeve kit. This can be purchased from Hawk Strictly Suzuki or Spidertax. This kit is designed to put a Tracker/kick ring and pinion into a Samurai axle. This kit is a two-piece kit. Since we are putting a Samurai carrier in a Tracker/kick housing, we will only need the barrel from this kit. The barrel is to hold the pins for the locker in place so they do not hit the pinion. Assemble into the Steel housing.
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Digger,
The steering parts were removed to fit my anvil into place and to avoid having to work the parts in and out of my vehicle. A few bolts, all of that junk is out of your way and it gives you ALOT more room to work ;)
The XL-7 mount is what it shown in my article, and a GV mount is like your kick mount. The only mod needed (if you go with an XL-7) is the crossmember needs mounting holes drilled in it)
I may be wrong, but unless you are going to do a locker, I believe that there is no need to get a Sami carrier, your Kick parts should bolt right into the GV/XL-7 housing. However, if a locker is on your list you will definately need to call hawk and get you one.
Zig
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I had my 5:83s dropped straight into the GV steel carrier
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For weight considerations, jump into the XL7 section. I swapped out my broken aluminum housing for a steel housing. I had to get a new set of 5.13s, but from articles, looks like I could have used any 7" overall diameter ring gear/pinion set. Add a locker if you prefer.
At the Melt, I compared my inner long shaft of my XL7 to Bill's Tracker model. It's ~1/2" longer overall with the same 3 point mounting flange.
I did manage to man-handle the 3rd member and axle housing in by myself. You just have to have your head under the tranny and use your legs to help maintain the balance while you put the bolts of the frame mounts in. Let the pinion rest on the crossmember.
Good luck.
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So basically I need just the complete housing(steel) from a GV and the internals(diff, left inner axle shaft and right complete cv shaft) from 96 and up track/kick 5 speed and I'll have a full steel housing with 5.12 r&p and 26 splines that will drop right into my 93 Tracker, right?
Why do I need a machined sammy center section? Or is that if I put in a locker?
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Why do I need a machined sammy center section? Or is that if I put in a locker?
Yeah if you want to run a lockrite in the front the sammy carrier needs to be machined so your right side cv stub fits into it.
Bill
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Cool, so I don't need that right now.
For right now until I scrounge up the pieces, Goblin's fixed and Silver's up on jack stands and 2wd. Depending on how long it takes me to gather the parts, I might just pull Silver's cv's out and strap the drive shaft up out of the way. It can drive to the frame shop in 2wd...
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This is what I know.
BTW. The Sammies rear center section has 4 spider gears where the kicks only have 2.
And since youll be running the 5:12s, you'll also need the pin can thingie that holds the spider gears pins in. (5:12s are too small to hold the pins in)
Cuase, If you broke yours, the spider gears will be bent ever so slightly and cause problems later.
It's hard to tell but learning by my freinds mistake. He's had to replace his front gears more than once to discover that problem.
Really.
If your not running a Locker or something. The rear Sammie center section 4-spider gears are Stronger than the Kicks 2-pin spider gears.
I haven't broken mine yet but my 2dr is down for an engine rebuild. Smokes too much for me.
And we all know, Smoking is Baaaad. ;) ;D
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Actually, I trashed the R&P when it went, so I wasn't planning on re-using anything out of the broken housing...
I was just going to get a whole new set of internals, side gears and all...
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All you have to do is get a complete steel front housing unit for an XL-7 from the junk yard. It will have the housing, center section (thrid member) and axil shaft.
Then all you need to do is change the R&P and your good to go.
Note: I had no problem removeing and installing my Anvil (completly assembled) into the truck with the front steering attached.
Good luck.
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Actually, I just got back from the junkyard and they had an auto 2003 XL7 with 5.13 R&P. If I grabbed that front rear and the right cv shaft, it should bolt in and give me full steel housing, the correct R&P as well as 26 spline shafts, right? Do the CV's from an XL7 fit the Tracker?
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Actually, I just got back from the junkyard and they had an auto 2003 XL7 with 5.13 R&P. If I grabbed that front rear and the right cv shaft, it should bolt in and give me full steel housing, the correct R&P as well as 26 spline shafts, right? Do the CV's from an XL7 fit the Tracker?
you'll need to grab the aircompressor too and wire it up so that the diff will work.
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what commonly causes the front diff to go kablooey? is it from smashing into stuff, or a lead foot? i plan on running 31 inch tires on my tracker, in not so hardcore terrain... little to no rockcrawling, no jumps (like some i've seen)... basically just trail riding, with some mud and creek crossings... i'm trying to figure out if given the kind of driving i'll be doing, if i need to go ahead and replace all that stuff, or wait to see if it breaks... any advice from those who have experienced this?
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Twan, if you drive like that, just wait,
I have yet to break a diff, just keep the bolts
tight on the side of the diff, this is where they
can twist and break too
Wild
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The Xl7 shafts are longer that trackers. You could swap the inner cup off the Xl7 to get a 26 spline for the pass side. The carrier should be swapped also as the XL7 uses an air line to activate 4wd. It would just be easier to use the tracker one.
Mike
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There are some pics of the XL7 front housing in this article;
http://www.zukiworld.com/month_090103/feature_sidekickdrivetrainimprovements.htm
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I looked at the exploded diagram at the junkyard for the XL7's front diff and it didn't show any airline or fitting... I didn't see anything that wasn't in the diagram for the Tracker... Ok, so I need a 99 and up GV complete housing(Diff housing and pinion snout housing), 5.12 R&P to add into that and side gears/right cv/left stub axle from a 96 and up tracker... right?
Sheesh... this is getting complicated! All I want is both steel housing pieces, the right ratio and 26 spline sidegears/shafts. Is this too much to ask??!? LOL! ::) ??? ;D
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From my understanding of Zukipilot's front axle setup is he used a 3rd member (drop out center section) from a XL7, a set of 5.83 gears for a Trackick, a modified Sami case with the EZ locker. He used the Trackick long side inner axle as he used the Anvil for the steel axle housing. The Sami case is altered to accept the larger 26-spline side gears for the 26-spline shafts.
While I was at the melt, I compared my XL7 inner long axle to a Trackick and I recall it being ~1/2" longer. The cv flange was exactly the same though (the driver's 3 point cv mounting flange).
Good luck.
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Ok, one thing that might help me is to get the right terminology applied to the right pieces. From the pics on Calmini's site, the anvil is just the front long portion of the housing. What is the actual correct name for the rear-most piece of housing that the pinion snout comes out of? That's the piece I recently broke. From closer inspection, it appears that the crack started right at the pinion snout's mounting ear, then progressed all the way around the snout housing until it completely separated the pinion from the ring gear.
I recognize the need to reinforce this area to keep this from happening again. After reading Jagular's post above, it seems as if the snout housing and the drop-out third member are separate pieces and this is getting me confused. According to that post, Zig is running an anvil, XL7 third member, 5.83 Track/kick gears, a modified sammi case(machined to fit the 26 spline side gears), an ez locker and a Track/kick long side inner axle... I was under the impression that the pinion snout housing had the carrier for the whole differential molded into it. Is this right or wrong?
Like I've stated before, what I'd like to end up with is the following:
Full steel outer case(axle housing as well as pinion snout housing)
26 spline side gears/shafts
5.12/5.13 R&P(are these actually the same or are there actually the 2 different ratios?)
And I want this to be able to bolt in without too much modification(but I plan on adding a snout collar of some kind to reinforce the snout mount).
So what pieces do I need? The entire case set from a 99 and up Grand Vitara, right?
Are there any Grand Vitaras that came with the 5.12/5.13 R&P? If so, wouldn't that bolt right in and give me everything I want? (as long as I snag the entire front diff assembly along with the right(passenger side) cv and left(driver's side) long inner axle shaft? Or would I need the entire front diff assembly as stated above from a 99 and up GV and the right side cv from a 96 and up track kick for the right length?
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what i did for my vitara/tracker was take a entire front diff assembly from a GV replace the center with an arb airlocker, use the vitara long inner axle (the one with the trangle on the end) and use the vitara's 5.125 R/P. this gives me a steel frontend.
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To try and clarify my article and your confusion here is a list of the parts as I know them:
Axle Housing:
Stockers
(http://www.zukiworld.com/month_090103/images/hutch_steel/Camera%20Dump%20009.jpg)
Calmini Anvil:
(http://www.zukiworld.com/month_110103/images/zigs_build/anvil1.jpg)
Here is where I think you are getting confused: I call these enitre units (shown below) the 3rd members of the front axle. In this picture the stock Alum. front is on the right and the Stock XL-& steel 3rd member housing is next to it (the 'empty one')
The parts that are missing from the XL-7 is the 1-carrier, 2-the ring and 3-pinion.
The Carrier is the peice that holds the Ring gear, spider gears(or locker) and mounts inside the empty collers you see in the XL-7 peice.
The Pinion is the peice that sticks through the snout of the 3rd member housing (the peice that you broke). (next to my hand in the second picture below)
(http://www.zukiworld.com/month_110103/images/zigs_build/diffs.jpg)
(http://www.zukiworld.com/month_110103/images/zigs_build/stock3rd.jpg)
I believe that your project will better follow Hutches article:
http://www.zukiworld.com/month_090103/feature_sidekickdrivetrainimprovements.htm than mine.
"I recognize the need to reinforce this area to keep this from happening again. After reading Jagular's post above, it seems as if the snout housing and the drop-out third member are separate pieces and this is getting me confused. According to that post, Zig is running an anvil, XL7 third member, 5.83 Track/kick gears, a modified sammi case(machined to fit the 26 spline side gears), an ez locker and a Track/kick long side inner axle... I was under the impression that the pinion snout housing had the carrier for the whole differential molded into it. Is this right or wrong?"
As the parts go, yes you are correct for my set up. If you go this direction you can get the anvil and locker from calmini and get everything else you need (machined carrier and all) from Hawk.
Did I clear up the 'snout housing' question with my pictures above? If not: The 3rd member housing does hold these parts but they are seperate form the housing. The carrier mounts within the vacant 'rings' you can see in the xl-7 housing pick above. It (the carrier) has the spider gears or locker mounted inside it with the ring gear bolted to the outside of it. Then the pinion gear mounts to the 3rd member housing coming out of the 'snout of the housing.
Here is a close up of my carrier mounted into the XL-7 housing (same one that is empty above)
(http://www.zukiworld.com/month_110103/images/zigs_build/xl7.jpg)
HTH,
Zig
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Zig, thanks, that clears it up some. I didn't know how to explain what I meant about the 2 parts of the housing. I want the full housing(both parts) to be steel and I want to upgrade to 26 splines. I knpw I could make life simple by calling Hawk, but I'm on a very tight budget and have access to a decent U-Pull-it yard where I can walk out with a complete, loaded front housing for $75.
Is there any particular model of GV that has 5.12's? If so, can I just grab the entire front housing(loaded) from that GV and then the right CV from a 96 and up Track/kick to finish the upgrade to 26 splines? Anyone?
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no GV's had 5.125's
you would need to find an 04 XL7 automatic if you want it all in one go.
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Zig, thanks, that clears it up some. I didn't know how to explain what I meant about the 2 parts of the housing. I want the full housing(both parts) to be steel and I want to upgrade to 26 splines. I knpw I could make life simple by calling Hawk, but I'm on a very tight budget and have access to a decent U-Pull-it yard where I can walk out with a complete, loaded front housing for $75.
Is there any particular model of GV that has 5.12's? If so, can I just grab the entire front housing(loaded) from that GV and then the right CV from a 96 and up Track/kick to finish the upgrade to 26 splines? Anyone?
It's looking like you are going to need to get the steel housing (both parts) and then set up a Kick carrier inside it with the Kick Ring and Pinion.
Zig
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no GV's had 5.125's
you would need to find an 04 XL7 automatic if you want it all in one go.
but Autos are aluminum 3rds. Right?
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no GV's had 5.125's
you would need to find an 04 XL7 automatic if you want it all in one go.
but Autos are aluminum 3rds. Right?
From 04 they all went to steel