ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: zaggy on July 22, 2005, 10:24:38 AM
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   I'm playing with these camshafts and everyone seems to have a different idea of what mid range is.
   So I'm asking what rpms do you really run in your Track/Kick.....on the street and on the trail / rock crawling / Muddin or what ever you do?
   I know the ones I'm playing with on the airboat/aircraft are working real well and several folks have asked if they would work for them but I don't have enough off roadish experience to give an honest answer....help.
Thanks
Zag
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Crawling around the trails, for me is about a 2500-3000 range. I just put in a Custom grind cam from Colt cams, and have noticed a definate diffrence in overall driveability. Even a couple of the guys from my local 4x4 group drove my Kick and noticed. Now.. If i need to pull some smuck outa the muck, its 4500-5000 or whatever seems mandatory at that spacific time, hehehe. That said. Im running stock gears and 30" tires. I have to keep the rpms low as for some strange reason my kick likes to eat fuel weather im on, or off the trails.
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1997 16v, 5 spd, 2 inch lift, 235's.
About 3,000 in town.
Idle to about 3,000 off road.
Hagen is red line all the time, so I'm guessing his midrange is about 6 grand! ;D
Cwkick
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1997 16v, 5 spd, 2 inch lift, 235's.
About 3,000 in town.
Idle to about 3,000 off road.
Hagen is red line all the time, so I'm guessing his midrange is about 6 grand! ;D
Cwkick
The redline in these motors is awesome. Almost to 6k every shift when I drive it agressively.
Otherwise I prefer idle to ~2500 when crawling.
Around town ~3000-4000.
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driving my stock 4 door on 205's i use 1000 to 4000 on the street.
driving my modded 2 door on 34's i use anywhere from 4000 to 6500(all its got) and its only used in mud.
Stu
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I appreciate the info guys....keep it coming
   See in my world of buzzy little engines    mid range is            3000-5500
                                   upper range is              4500-6500
                                    high range is               5500-7500+
So far what I'm seeing is a bias to low range...what about the guys that rock crawl and do the stuff like "Operation Rock Star"?
Thanks Zag
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I'm not sure you should bunch them all together, the 1.3 will go to nine grand or so all day long,(it needs to) the 1.6 eight valve with carb would be ok at six grand or so and live and would go higher than the f.i engines, my 1.6 only goes to 6500 and then cuts out because of the limiter in the ecm and also has double the torque of the 1.3 at about 2500 rpm's, mine will pull 33's at freeway speed at only 2200 rpm's no problem and i'm at about 4400 feet in elevation with about a three thousand pound samurai.
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I'm not trying to bunch them together.........
My little blurb was just to let guys know how I think.
I'd like to know where guys really run for rpm...the manufacturers give guidelines with their cams...but what are guys really running at?
Thanks
Zag
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Off road, idle to 2.5K. On road up hill whatever it will rev to with my foot flat on the floor, lol. Not usually above 4.5K - 5K. On the road, peak torque at around 3.5K is good, off road peak torque at around 1K would be ideal ;D
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Zag, as you're seeing depending on where and what you drive you'll be using different parts of the rev range. When I'm just crawling around probably idle to 3500rpm, general trail running 2500 to 4500, around town up to 4500/5000rpm and when I need it or want some fun you'll find me at the redline ;D
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At freeway speeds I geet about 4000-4500 RPM
on the trail it goes from 2500-3500 and hill climbs
likein sand of soft dirt I floor it and get it to about
6000 before I back off, no rev limiter (that I have ever hit)
on an 89 8V computer
Wild
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Well i take mine to 7500 on a daily basis. I usaully run at 4000 at 75 mph. I have custom ground cams. I'll have to get busy and look at my specs for lift and duration and post them.
mine has to do with gearing more then power. Hey zag just in case you still wondering there are two warehouse for american racing one in vancover and one in tronto. Let me know the closest one and i'll get you address phone number and name of manager.
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man some of you folks really rev them. me i cruise around town at around 3000, and sometimes i go as high as 4000rpm to get up certain hills. off-road though i never really look but i would guess no higher than 3000.
the 16v seem to have a good powerband at lower rpm's, i'm running 5.12 on 30" tires with a 5spd tranny.
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REDLINE... ALL THE TIME!!! ;D
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Hey Mike
Have I got an engine for you..........but I won't take it out of the airplane!!!!!!!
Zag
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So.....
From the responses I've gotten..........
- Trail use, most guys are running the 0-3500 rpm range (low range)
- Trail use, a few maniacs (like me!) run in the 4500-6000+ range (upper range)
- Street use, a lot are running 0-3500 rpm range (low range)
- Street use, most are running 2500-4500 rpm range (mid range)
- Street use, a select few 4500-6000+ (upper range)
Thanks guys, the information helps me wrap my head around engine issues a little better.
Zag
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like always terrain is the varable(sp)
rock rigs run in the lower RPM range to keep traction with the ground.
mud trucks run in the higher RPM range to keep the wheels spining at max speed to clean the tread out.
i don't beleave any one cam can do it all so you must pick and choose.
Stu
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you can't beat cubic inches, not with out lots and lots of money and nos, it would be nice for somebody to come up with a good stroker kit for the 1.6's even if it is only a couple of hundred cc's. my 2110 vw dyno's at about 215 h.p. that would be good enough.
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Hey Mike
Have I got an engine for you..........but I won't take it out of the airplane!!!!!!!
Zag
I will take it out of the airplane! ;)
??? I noticed that your profile is missing your address ???
Mike
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i use anywhere from 4000 to 6500(all its got) and its only used in mud.
Ditto
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Stroker Motors, MMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm
Power
OK, so you want a stroker motor, what would
you guys be willing to pay for a stroker 1.6 engine
with 1825cc ??
I estimate the cost at about $2000 for a custom
oversize kit, pistons, rods and crank, including rings
and balancing, that's a 77mm bore and 98mm stroke
This would significantly increase torque as well as HP
I don't know if the block would need clearancing yet
Wild
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Stroker Motors, MMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm
Power
OK, so you want a stroker motor, what would
you guys be willing to pay for a stroker 1.6 engine
with 1825cc ??
I estimate the cost at about $2000 for a custom
oversize kit, pistons, rods and crank, including rings
and balancing, that's a 77mm bore and 98mm stroke
This would significantly increase torque as well as HP
I don't know if the block would need clearancing yet
Wild
How do you calculate bore and stroke into cc's? Also what is stock bore and stroke on a 1.6? $2000 doesnt sound bad for all custom stuff. Hey by the way, when you took apart your blown motor did you happen to check how much clearance there was between the top of the piston and the deck?
Bill
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There is about 1/2 a mm from the deck to the
crown of the piston on a normal engine, I had
a rod wedged between the block and the crank.
Stock bore is 75mm x 90mm stroke for a 1.6L engine
For a Sammy 1.3L is 74mm bore and I
think 75mm stroke, but I don't remember
for sure
To figure displacement, bore x bore x stroke x .0031417
this is for a 4 cylinder, double for a V8 or add half for
a 6 cylinder, half the figure for a 2 cylinder etc. Makes no
difference if it's CCs or Inches, Just use your favorite unit
of measure
We could get super serious if you want to sleeve
the block, I could get 2.0L, but that would add about
$800 to the price plus you need to send a core engine
block as well as a crank
Wild
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Here's a couple of figures. Something to consider though is the rod ratio as stock it is already at what is commonly accepted as the limit of 1.5 with an ideal being more like 1.65 -1.80. When stroked even 5mm it will be 1.47
Rod ratio = rod length/stroke
139.6/90 = 1.55
139.6/95 = 1.47
78mm bore x standard stroke (90mm) = 1720cc
79mm bore x standard stroke (90mm) = 1765cc
78mm bore x 95mm stroke = 1816cc
79mm bore x 95mm stroke = 1863cc
I'm more inclined to look at a 78mm bore with a resleeve to keep the cylinder wall thickness within a nice range.
Here's some specs on the 1.3 and 1.6 engines.
G13BA 74mm x 75.5mm 1298cc
Comp. Ratio 9.5:1
Cyl Head Vol. 32.2 cm3
Hd Gskt Thickness 1.2mm
Cyl Block Deck Height 186.8mm
Deck Clearance 0.2mm (above block)
Min. Combustion Chamber Total Vol. 38.2cm3
Rod Length 120mm
Piston Celearance & Postion (from Crown) 0.02 |removethispart|@ 45.80
Compression Height 28.10mm
Intake Valve OD 36m
Exhaust Valve OD 30mm
G16A 75 x 90mm 1590cc
Comp. Ratio 8.9:1
Cyl Head Vol. 32.2 cm3
Hd Gskt Thickness 1.2mm
Cyl Block Deck Height 213.8mm
Deck Clearance 0.9mm (below block)
Min. Combustion Chamber Total Vol. 50.6cm3
Rod Length 139.6mm
Piston Celearance & Postion (from Crown) 0.02 |removethispart|@ 48.00
Compression Height 28.10mm
Intake Valve OD 36.6mm
Exhaust Valve OD 32.5mm
G16B 75 x 90mm 1590cc
Comp. Ratio 9.5:1
Cyl Head Vol. 25.5 cm3
Hd Gskt Thickness 1.2mm
Cyl Block Deck Height 213.8mm
Deck Clearance 0.9mm (below block)
Min. Combustion Chamber Total Vol. 46.8cm3
Rod Length 139.6mm
Piston Clearance & Postion (from Crown) 0.03 |removethispart|@ 53.00
Compression Height 28.55mm
Intake Valve OD 29.2mm
Exhaust Valve OD 25mm
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I know it will be pushing the normal
limits, but stroke is easier to get CCs
out of than bore :-\
Wild
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This might be too obvious...
If you're going to go that big....why not swap for the 2.0L J series, easier than all the custom work.
Zag
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This might be too obvious...
If you're going to go that big....why not swap for the 2.0L J series, easier than all the custom work.
Zag
I think I could swap a V6 in for under $2000. Or in wilds case why not v6 turbo? :o
Mike
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The 2.0L is just easier for the average guy
- Same trans
- Same d/shafts
- Speedo and all linkages stay factory
You just need
- Custom motor mounts
- Custom flywheel
- Larger radiator
I'm in the middle of figuring it out but I think you can even adapt the 1.6/16v injection/ignition
Now add twin turbos from a 1.0L, custom cams and a mega squirt with ignition control....
Zag
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Is the 2.0l j spec not indepent coils. THe 1.8l has coil packs over each spark plug i though the 2.0 did to. Are you talking the v6 2.0 like the escudos had or the 2.0 four like the new gv?
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There is just something about doing a trick
engine, even if it is just a 1.6L block, but that's
me, I just can't leave things alone
If I were going to get crazy, I would go with a
small Suzuki parts V8 with twin turbos, custom
block, crank and use the 16V heads with 16V
pistons, but that's what I think of as too much
work
Wild
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Hey gang
The 2.0L J series is the in line 4 with the individual coil packs...I think the ignition wikk adapt from the 1.6 to make a clean easy swap, now the electronics are becoming more difficult than the actual swap!
Hey Wild
Love the idea of the Suzuki V-8. I can't remember the name(Cesco?) of the conversion but back in my Sprint car days there were several guys running Midgets with a Suzuki V-8 conversion.
It was basically (2) Suzuki hi-po 4 cylinder bike engines installed on a common crankcase, man did those things go....they beat a bunch of the full tilt Chevy V-8 Sprint Cars. They were out of Florida if I remember right
If you took the formula and put (2) modern watercooled 1000+ Suzuki bike engines in can you imagine the power?
Zag