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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: zaggy on July 30, 2005, 09:47:44 AM

Title: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: zaggy on July 30, 2005, 09:47:44 AM
Marketing and Engineering representatives of Suzuki USA and Canada

Ladies and Gentlemen

     As a major fan of the earlier generations of Suzuki products, both Swift and Sidekick, I would love to consider buying a new vehicle. The problem is that you are not currently offering a product that attracts me, and many others, in your North American line up.
     Being in business myself I understand the issues surrounding the marketing, support and infastructure required to bring a new product into the market place and I am not planning to rant and rave. But I would like it if you could advise as to the number of orders it would require to bring an product you have existing overseas to North America.
     The Escudo has recieved rave reviews among members of the Suzuki community that currently are in love with their older SideKicks, Samurais, Trackers. How many confirmed orders would be required to get your company to import this vehicle to Norht America?

I hope you could post your reply to this forum, as we are the potential customer.

Sincerely

Zag
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: zaggy on July 30, 2005, 09:49:49 AM
I'd like one
- Soft top
- 1.6/16v
- 5 spd
- 4X4
- Black exterior, Grey interior
- Am Fm CD


Who's next?

Zag
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: Blasted on July 30, 2005, 09:58:03 AM
Id like one too..
Hard Top
1.8 (if avalible) Maybe a diesel option would be cool too.
5 Speed
4X4
Black on Black
AM FM CD with MP3 (i like options)
AC.
And could someone post some pics or link to the Escudo thread?  ty.
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: ack on July 30, 2005, 10:16:57 AM
Right now, the only competition that the Jeep Wrangler has is itself.

Every other manufacturer of 2-door SUVs either has stopped production (Kia for example) or gone with unibody construction.

No one except Chrysler builds anything like the Jeep Wrangler at or near that price point.

If anyone built a decent ladder-frame 2-door 4x4 SUV (IFS or otherwise) that could compete with the Jeep and meet EPA specs as necessary, I'd buy it.  Especially if it came with factory offroad packages or used driveline components for which there were aftermarket offroad replacements already available.

I don't need some goofy concept car -- just something that gets good mileage, has a softtop, can get out of it's own way (read bigger engine) and DOESN'T LOOK LIKE AN INVERTED BATHTUB!

I would buy that.  And I bet there are a lot of young people (one of which I am not) who would buy one as a first car.   Espeically if it was a Suzuki product.
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: SnoFalls on July 30, 2005, 10:54:03 AM
I'd rather have a jimny than an escudo ...

Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: adamd on July 30, 2005, 11:08:16 AM
Quote from: SnoFalls on July 30, 2005, 10:54:03 AM
I'd rather have a jimny than an escudo ...



I was just gonna say.... with a diesel!
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: zukisuzi on July 30, 2005, 02:33:32 PM
I'd sure be interested in any of the above! Jimny sounds great & diesel as well. I think if Suzuki's North American operations seriously studied our market they'd offer a vehicle like this. They'd find interest not only from people like us that love their older products, but from all those that would like a SUV geared even somewhat more to the (at least periodic) off-pavement use. Besides Wrangler, the market is ignored. Buyers that are in the lower half of the income scale are Suzuki's targeted customers anyway. With their history, you'd think they'd jump into this market, wouldn't you?!    ::)

Also, looking at a couple of Honda & Toyota's recent offerings, I say boxy seems to be IN. Imagine how well kinda boxy, less ugly, more fun, & more versatile could do!   ;D
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: Proud2BCDN on July 30, 2005, 03:57:36 PM
I'd love to get a new Jimny...but they'd have to put at least a 1.6L 16V in it to have a hope in NA.

http://www.globalsuzuki.com/automobile/jimny/index.html
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: cj on July 30, 2005, 04:52:50 PM
The Jimny only gets a turbo diesel(Renault 1.5 I think) in Europe  :( Be good if we got that as they can be tweaked for a lot more power. I agree that the 1.5 or 1.6 engines that Suzuki have in other models would be great in the Jimny. They dropped the soft top Jimny in OZ a couple a years back so we only get the hard top now. A couple of problems with them are that they need serious lifts and cutting to get decent sized rubber under them and the front ends are a bit weaker than the older Samurai's. Also they need beefing up in their suspension mounting points. On the place side there are plenty of aftermarket parts for them inc. front & rear lockers, t-case gears and t-case swaps, body and suspension lifts, winch bars, snorkels etc. I've even seen some flare kits for them on an Iceland site I think.
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: mth712 on July 31, 2005, 10:25:49 AM
I will take the Wagon R with the 1.0  ;D
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: Utah_Tracker on July 31, 2005, 08:55:35 PM
I'm in too,
   I'm not as familure with the none north american models but, jeep needs something to bring it back to reality. and what better than something from Suzuki that would nock it's socks off.  Have the Fuel options, with one of those neet V-6's for the 4 door.  Stock fitting 31' tires.   Easy mods.  I think that they would have a huge market with very little tweaking of what they're selling over seas.

Utah

two cents?, two cents?.... any body got a nickle?
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: ZeusZuki on July 31, 2005, 09:46:04 PM
To anyone interested.  :)
The Jimny is just a glorified coil sprung sammy. :-\ We have "tweaked" one here in NZ. It runs 33" MTR's ( kick ass tyres! ), 5.14:1 rock lobster in sammy T case, 3.9:1 r&p's ( used on the road as a daily driver ), lift - 4 inches? give or take, manual tranny, fitted with power steering ( this one did not have it standard but it is a standard feature on some models ), locker in the rear.
It has a horrible two pinion front nugget. :-X We are going to modify a 413 front end with three link with a panhard rod. Doing the same for the rear too - they flex Ok but are limited by the standard arm mount arrangement.
Once it is done it should go pretty good. ;D

ZeusZuki.
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: Mikerpm4x4 on July 31, 2005, 09:53:50 PM
Jimny, escudo, or something similar and Id buy one too.

Mike
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: xoffroad on August 01, 2005, 09:26:39 AM
There's only 1 problem... Chrysler had Lawmakers impose a HUGE tarrif on 2 door SUV's back in the late 80's... Why? Jeep Wrangler sales fell over 60% because of... Ah hell I'm in the right forum you guys figure it out.

It would have to be built in the states in order to beat the tarrif, even Canada doesn't count. We got the trackicks at cost basically. I mean the rig doesn't undergo any changes from 89-95 yet the price almost doubles... Figure it out.

Would be sweet to see something other than junk in the 2dr drop top SUV with lo-range. The H4 is gonna compete in that market but with no lo-range, solid axles, or a frame... Still there gonna call it an "SUV".

Being a Jeep owner myself I'd prefer a Suzuki. Oh yea, I'm also a Suzuki owner... Kind of a contracdiction but with 900 miles on the Jeep between breakdowns and 30k on the XL7 with no problems at all I'd ditch the b*tch for a Jimny in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: crikeymike on August 01, 2005, 01:03:15 PM
I REALLY HATE TO SAY THIS, BUT...

I'm sure a lot of people have heard on here recently about the new Hyundai plant set up in Alabama.  At a cost of $1.1billion, absolutely everything in there is brand new.  Suzuki should get in with these guys to have US made SUV's like we all want.

You guys do realise that hyundai is making the "Terracon" that's available in Australia with a turbo-diesel engine. 

I honestly don't think suzuki will go back to the good old days of sami's and kick's thanks to the good American spirit of listening to F'n consumer reports and how they can sway the country away from a product.

Write Hyundai a letter.  If anyone will compete with jeep anymore for SUV's, I have a feeling it will be them.

(they just need to lose the plastic, and bubble look).
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: Mikerpm4x4 on August 01, 2005, 07:50:22 PM
Quote from: crikeymike on August 01, 2005, 01:03:15 PM
I REALLY HATE TO SAY THIS, BUT...

I'm sure a lot of people have heard on here recently about the new Hyundai plant set up in Alabama.  At a cost of $1.1billion, absolutely everything in there is brand new.  Suzuki should get in with these guys to have US made SUV's like we all want.

You guys do realise that hyundai is making the "Terracon" that's available in Australia with a turbo-diesel engine. 

I honestly don't think suzuki will go back to the good old days of sami's and kick's thanks to the good American spirit of listening to F'n consumer reports and how they can sway the country away from a product.

Write Hyundai a letter.  If anyone will compete with jeep anymore for SUV's, I have a feeling it will be them.

(they just need to lose the plastic, and bubble look).

I dont want a f---ing Hyundai! I want a real zuki, not this minivan/station wagon crap they are calling SUVs.

Mike
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: prairie_dog on August 01, 2005, 10:44:20 PM
 With HEEPS on every corner going for 25-35k (new), why couldn't suzuki build and old school with all or selected options(power accessories, diesel, turbo etc..) and still make good money? 

 Jeeps haven't changed style wise hardly at all, so bringing in a new/old zuki line should be that hard right?

 my .02
Steve
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: zaggy on August 02, 2005, 07:07:51 AM
I think....

     Suzuki, like any auto mfg will bring in or build what evere will make them a profit. I would bet if we could find a way to prove to them that they could consistanly sell 30,000 Escudo, Jnmiy, Sidekicks or 4wd Swifts with beam axles they would build and import them. I believe the reason they don't is that they do not see a large enough market.....sooooooo let's show them there is.

     I still want a black one

Zag
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: xoffroad on August 02, 2005, 08:23:51 AM
Just show them the #'s on Wrangler's being sold... Then show them the #'s on the 2007 Wranglers which loose the SWB model. There's your market. They could do it and honestly pick up were the wrangler is going to leave off.

Another problem is all these Wanna B SUV's on the market are taking control of where it goes. Why? Nobody is buying the Real SUV's. Mostly because of gas mileage and ride. But then look at Nissan, all there SUV's cept that dorky looking Murano are frame based with real 4wd systems. It's there but Suzuki's current advertising doesn't show what these vehicles are, what they can do, and how they can fit into your life (style). All there showing are the benefiets of owning one which is a HORRIBLE way to sell vehicles. In fact I sent 4 people to Suzuki showrooms this year, none bought one but thought the vehicles were great and the sales staff knew everything about them but all 4 bought Honda's because they were sold on the honda reliability thing. Even though we all know Suzuki's will run with piss in the tank and sh*t in the oil.

They saw the #'s on the SWB sidetracks dwindle and axed that model. Not much profit and sales stunk after the remake...

Creating a new manufacturing facility in the states would be wise but too expensive for a market that is only buying less than 150k Suzuki's a year. That Hyundai plant can produce over 300k of ONE model (the Sonata which is a kick ass car! Test drove one of the first ones out-my wife has been waiting on that model for 2 years).
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: toolman21 on August 02, 2005, 08:51:36 AM
"Just show them the #'s on Wrangler's being sold... Then show them the #'s on the 2007 Wranglers which loose the SWB model. There's your market. They could do it and honestly pick up were the wrangler is going to leave off. "

That true?  Why the fart would they do that?  The LWB ones are just strange looking, I rented one while i was in hawaii and I found it to be annoying, would much rather have a SWB one.

Also how did Chyrsler pass this tarrif thing anyway?  Oh Jeeps aren't selling as well, lets just keep the rest out of the country, or jack thier prices up to what ours are?

Things never fail to amaze me.  If suzuki made a 4wd 2dr vert model I would probably buy one if the price was under 20 grand just because of the luck I have had out of my 89.  I guess I will keep dreaming now....
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: wildgoody on August 02, 2005, 09:52:28 PM
Well I am laughing my ass off with all of the makers
coming out with the V8s in everything, and they still
get sucky milage like a domestic V8 fullsize Suburban
or truck.

This is time to bring the return of the Mini SUV, Track/Kick
or Jimny, it really doesn't matter, with gas reaching $2.75
a gallon, I know lots of people that are shelling out $100
a week to keep their truck on the road.

And what about the proliferation of Diesels that are available
in the new trucks and SUVs???  Time to re-introduce the small
real value 4x4s

Wild
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: Agent Orange on August 02, 2005, 10:48:56 PM
well seeing as suzuki seems to be evolving towards unibody awd vehicles, atleast for north america. it leaves me with a few options for the future, import a jimny from another country, buy a smaurai, and build my own version of the jimny  ;) or build my tracker into some funky version of a built jimny  ;D

right now i'm actively looking for a auto sidekick in either 2dr tintop or 4dr for my mom, which will preserve me one for the future  ;D

still options out there, it just depends on how you aproach it  8) the real problem i face is not being able to just think of one way of building my ride. everytime i change my underwear "which is everyday, in case your wondering  :D" i have a different way of wanting a finished product which will never be. it's like crack, except you keep the weight on  :'(
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: zaggy on August 03, 2005, 10:04:55 AM
I just read the ASMC release that Eric added....

For the record...
- Vitara................on projection
- Aerio.................over target
- Forenza............over target

- Grand Vitara.....well below projection
- XL7...................below projection
- Verona.............below projection

Does anyone notice a trend....

Suzuki vehicles on or exceeding projection are their smaller, economical, FUN vehicles!

Suzuki it's time to revist the market place tht really wants to deal with you...

How about a North American spec....
-Jimny
-Escudo
-Swift
-Swift Gti

Zag
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: Mikerpm4x4 on August 03, 2005, 07:44:13 PM
Quote from: zaggy on August 03, 2005, 10:04:55 AM
I just read the ASMC release that Eric added....

For the record...
- Vitara................on projection
- Aerio.................over target
- Forenza............over target

- Grand Vitara.....well below projection
- XL7...................below projection
- Verona.............below projection

Does anyone notice a trend....

Suzuki vehicles on or exceeding projection are their smaller, economical, FUN vehicles!

Suzuki it's time to revist the market place tht really wants to deal with you...

How about a North American spec....
-Jimny
-Escudo
-Swift
-Swift Gti

Zag

I think your right on target! ;)

Mike
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: Autobot on August 04, 2005, 01:46:19 PM
 Why don't we make up a petition and mail it to Suzuki America?
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: zaggy on August 04, 2005, 02:52:30 PM
That's what starting this thread was supposed to turn into.

      An electronic, polite, petition.

Zag
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: xoffroad on August 05, 2005, 10:06:38 AM
Quote
Also how did Chyrsler pass this tarrif thing anyway?

Remember the "Bail out" in the 80's? Somebody had to pay for it (taxpayers) then something had to happen to pay that back (import tariffs).

Also the XL7 is outselling the rest of the pack except the Forenza, check your sale numbers. Xl7's were above 4000 a month, Forenza's above 5000 for the month everything else was below 2000, and the Vitara which was axed and nobody noticed was below 400 for the month. I'm suprised the Verona and Aerio are so low... AWD sedan/Sport wagon for less than $15k with the rebates?!?!?! That's below Subaru in their own territory... Where's the advertising on that one!

Those are the numbers I saw in May.

The problem with Suzuki North America's auto division has NOTHING to do with products. It's all Marketing. If they want to fix it they can call me up anytime. I agree a small 2dr SUV is missing.

We'll work for Jimny's!

Do a search for 2007 Wranglers on Yahoo and Google... You'll see the SWB is GONE! It's being replaced with a slightly shorter than Unlimited LWB, then there will be a slightly longer than Unlimited 4dr model. Also a V8 option will be available and the I6 will be replaced with the problematic 3.7L. Nobody in the Jeep Wrangler world is happy about this one either. It's an effort to sway Cherokee owners back to Jeep (ain't gonna happen with the $3500 price increase that's expected too). Base Wranglers will be in the $20K+ category which leaves a GAPPING hole for SOMEONE to fill in the US market... It will come from China, if Bricklin get's his way, and be priced around $13K with part time 4wd, IFS and a solid rear axle. But SOME COMPANY in JAPAN NEEDS to start thinking about IMPORTING something like the JIMNY.
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: zaggy on August 05, 2005, 10:21:39 AM
Hi there

     If you look at Suzuki's numbers that Eric posted and compare 2004/2005 thats where my numbers come from....and a lot of my conclusions.

    I did not say they weren't selling...I said they were below projection and target. That tells the story in itself.

Zag
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: zukisuzi on August 07, 2005, 06:57:29 PM
Quote from: xoffroad on August 05, 2005, 10:06:38 AM
...The problem with Suzuki North America's auto division has NOTHING to do with products. It's all Marketing...
We'll work for Jimny's!...
...SOME COMPANY in JAPAN NEEDS to start thinking about IMPORTING something like the JIMNY.

C'MON, SUZUKI - BRING 'EM ON!!!
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: LawDog on August 09, 2005, 03:17:40 PM
Just recently I read in one of those news magazines for dealerships that between now and 2008 Suzuki wants to DOUBLE its North American penetration.  That means two Zuk dealers to every one today, in the next 2-3 years.  They'll need more people heading to the showroom to float that.  Suzuki must know that they need a more diverse market.  To get more people in, you need more stuff to draw them.  What I'm not sure that they know is that there is an niche in the market for something like the Trackick.  It may not be an exact replica of a Kick or Sammy, or even a Jimny or Escudo, like we all hope, but it MUST fit that bill!

-btw...that Heep tariff theory is a PILE OF PUKE!  GM would have never let that happen, and if they did just let that market go...why the hell did they then aquire such a large interest in Suzuki.  It sure wasn't to fill their lot with metros and storms was it?! 8)  Plus they produced a 2dr conv. until '03 for similar money as the 4dr.  They sold them at cost for 10+ years and partnered with Suzuki so everyone could roll in the lack of dough selling at cost. ::)  Oh yeah, and as far as building it in Canada...NAFTA dumpus! :o  Shut it up with your paranoid Heep conspiracy theory. :P

Oh and put me down for one Escudo please.  It's introduction hopefully will be timed perfectly with the expiration of my Trailblazer lease.  I'd like the one that includes that chick from girlsstuckcars.com ;D
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: LawDog on August 09, 2005, 03:33:01 PM
Quote from: Mikerpm4x4 on August 01, 2005, 07:50:22 PM
Quote from: crikeymike on August 01, 2005, 01:03:15 PM
I REALLY HATE TO SAY THIS, BUT...

I'm sure a lot of people have heard on here recently about the new Hyundai plant set up in Alabama.  At a cost of $1.1billion, absolutely everything in there is brand new.  Suzuki should get in with these guys to have US made SUV's like we all want.

You guys do realise that hyundai is making the "Terracon" that's available in Australia with a turbo-diesel engine. 

I honestly don't think suzuki will go back to the good old days of sami's and kick's thanks to the good American spirit of listening to F'n consumer reports and how they can sway the country away from a product.

Write Hyundai a letter.  If anyone will compete with jeep anymore for SUV's, I have a feeling it will be them.

(they just need to lose the plastic, and bubble look).

I dont want a f---ing Hyundai! I want a real zuki, not this minivan/station wagon crap they are calling SUVs.

Mike

Agreed Mr. Hagen.  Plus Hyundai DID just build a $1.1billion plant and start there own autoworkers union.  If the wanted to bring a new platform here they would've tooled the plant for it when it was cost effective to do so, the beginning.
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: wildgoody on August 09, 2005, 07:28:47 PM
Quote
that between now and 2008 Suzuki wants to
DOUBLE it's North American penetration.
    :o

Hope this doesn't mean we are going to get screwed
twice with some other frameless AWD knockoff

Wild
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: ebewley on August 10, 2005, 06:43:49 AM
In an effort to push the conversation forward... I've noticed that a lot of comments on this thread are expressing negativity towards the idea of a "unibody" designed platform. It is my suspicion that these are the same people that really like, maybe even desire to build, a tube chassis buggy. I ask, in the route form, aren't these the same thing? The metal may be shaped a different way but the basic form, function, and geometry is the same! The same benefits are seen with a rigid platform that increases handling, stability, and performance... It just looks different... But look at the fundamentals of a tube chassis buggy ie. it doesn't have a 'floating body' that the occupant is housed in; all sub-systems are attached to a basic skeleton that supports all functions of the vehicle. Body panels and accesories are bolted to this chassis not to each other and then to a frame. The same can be said about a 'unibody' vehicle.

Anyway, There are several instances throughout automotive history of 'unibody' vehicles that perform well offroad such as the AM General HMMWV, Jeep Cherokee,  Pinzgauer, etc... Anyway, I'm just saying that because something is 'unibody' doesn't mean it is automatically junk. Plastic bumpers say that!  ;)

Thoughts?

-Eric
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: Cwkick on August 10, 2005, 06:48:24 AM
People are going to dislike you being correct!   ;D

Old Beetles are unibody and they have won the Baja before.   :P

Cwkick
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: ebewley on August 10, 2005, 06:51:52 AM
Quote from: Cwkick on August 10, 2005, 06:48:24 AM
People are going to dislike you being correct!   ;D

Old Beetles are unibody and they have won the Baja before.   :P

Cwkick

You know, I had VW beetle in my list but removed it because it wasn't offered in an 4WD or AWD version that I'm aware of. But that is a good example of 'unibody' performance.

-Eric
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: Zukipilot on August 10, 2005, 06:52:08 AM
Good eye opening observation  :-\ Well untill the plastic bumper comment  ::) Hey guess what? Kicks, Vitaras, XL-7, X-90's came with plastic bumpers (and the Samis bumpers might as well of been plastic) ::)  Wait, damn near everything besides a full size comes with them any more. Ahhh, hell, I guess I'll just have to take the bumpers off of the x-90 now and weld in some tubing ;D

Zig
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: ebewley on August 10, 2005, 06:55:05 AM
Quote from: Zukipilot on August 10, 2005, 06:52:08 AM
Good eye opening observation  :-\ Well untill the plastic bumper comment  ::) Hey guess what? Kicks, Vitaras, XL-7, X-90's came with plastic bumpers (and the Samis bumpers might as well of been plastic) ::)  Wait, damn near everything besides a full size comes with them any more. Ahhh, hell, I guess I'll just have to take the bumpers off of the x-90 now and weld in some tubing ;D

Zig

Proving catagorical statements just don't work. Plastic bumpers must be ok on some vehicle applications, right?

-Eric
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: Zukipilot on August 10, 2005, 06:58:06 AM
Quote from: ebewley on August 10, 2005, 06:55:05 AM
Quote from: Zukipilot on August 10, 2005, 06:52:08 AM
Good eye opening observation  :-\ Well untill the plastic bumper comment  ::) Hey guess what? Kicks, Vitaras, XL-7, X-90's came with plastic bumpers (and the Samis bumpers might as well of been plastic) ::)  Wait, damn near everything besides a full size comes with them any more. Ahhh, hell, I guess I'll just have to take the bumpers off of the x-90 now and weld in some tubing ;D

Zig

Proving catagorical statements just don't work. Plastic bumpers must be ok on some vehicle applications, right?

-Eric

Yea , just messin with ya and making sure you were not turning into a full size off roader ;)

Zig

PS I love my plastic on my X  8)
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: zaggy on August 10, 2005, 03:09:50 PM
Hey guys

     I don't care how they build it...just make it so it will do the job of the Track/Kick, at a liveable price.....

Zag
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: cj on August 10, 2005, 03:21:39 PM
I don't have a problem with it not having a seperate chassis as it still has a chassis, it's just that it's now integrated with a monocoque style body so it should actually be stronger. The only downside for some will be the inability to do a simple bodylift but then again given the quality/safety aspects of some bodylifts that's not necessarily a bad thing. A lift can still be done by spacing subframes suspension components away from the body but it is more involved as I have seen this done on Subaru's.
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: zaggy on August 10, 2005, 03:34:14 PM
,HEY GUYS

     Getting back to original idea behind the thread...........

"Hey Suzuki...How manyt orders would it take to bring in the Escudo or Jimny?"

And how many of you guys would really be up for it....at say $15,000 USD base model?

So far we have...........12 by my count.......only 29,988 to go!


Zag
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: Agent Orange on August 10, 2005, 07:00:20 PM
for me its not the unibody or body on frame issue as much as it is the ifs, and irs which detracts from the true off-road enthusiast desire to have one. it gets 18mpg in the city, and 23 on the highway, sorry i don't think so ! to me suzuki always built rugged rigs that got amazing gas mileage, this new gv totally misses that mark.

remember the vw beetle it was famous for being cheap, easy to repair, and was reliable. the new one missed all those points. they remade it for dip shits, and dip shits bought them. try turning a new beetle into a baja buggy, that's my point.

i want a jimny style suzuki here in north america, not a yuppy suv or cars. why would i buy a suzuki car when there is so much to choose from in either classes. why would i buy a 2006 grand vitara when with almost the same cash i could get a xterra.
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: cj on August 10, 2005, 07:03:53 PM
Well I can get the Jimny here and I'm still not convinced that I'd want one. It really needs to be more like the older Samurai with some upgrades to be worthwhile.
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: wildgoody on August 10, 2005, 10:38:00 PM
I was just trying to be funny with that
"double penetration" comment

Wild
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: Zukipilot on August 11, 2005, 03:56:07 AM
Quote from: ebewley on August 10, 2005, 06:43:49 AM
In an effort to push the conversation forward... I've noticed that a lot of comments on this thread are expressing negativity towards the idea of a "unibody" designed platform. It is my suspicion that these are the same people that really like, maybe even desire to build, a tube chassis buggy. I ask, in the route form, aren't these the same thing? The metal may be shaped a different way but the basic form, function, and geometry is the same! The same benefits are seen with a rigid platform that increases handling, stability, and performance... It just looks different... But look at the fundamentals of a tube chassis buggy ie. it doesn't have a 'floating body' that the occupant is housed in; all sub-systems are attached to a basic skeleton that supports all functions of the vehicle. Body panels and accesories are bolted to this chassis not to each other and then to a frame. The same can be said about a 'unibody' vehicle.

Anyway, There are several instances throughout automotive history of 'unibody' vehicles that perform well offroad such as the AM General HMMWV, Jeep Cherokee,  Pinzgauer, etc... Anyway, I'm just saying that because something is 'unibody' doesn't mean it is automatically junk. Plastic bumpers say that!  ;)

Thoughts?

-Eric

Eric,
I thought about this on the way into work this morning and the more I thought the more I dis-liked the thought of a unibody style Suzuki 4x4 to build for off road use. Why ??? Take a look at all of the vehicles you listed besides the Jeep Cherokee. The HMMWV and the Pinzgauer are KICK ASS examples of very capable of road vehicles (bone stock) Little Mods make these things incredible off road BECAUSE they are designed solely for off road use (and they suck on road compared to todays SUV). The Jeep Cherokee is a blend off on/off road design BUT was on the market virtually unchanged (Sport Model) for around 20 years. Allowing it to develop a huge aftermarket supply line allowing their owners to purchase whatever was needed to custom build their truck to meet their needs. That is where we will have trouble with a unibody design.
When you build a buggy (on a unibody style tube chassis) for off road performance that is what you build. It works well for what it was built for. BUT you take that specialty equipment and blast it down the road at interstate speeds, you have a death trap on your hands. I think the unibody design on SUV's will prove to do just the opposite of my example. They are designed to work really good on road and have mild (in our eyes) off road use. Therefore making it hard to adapt it's custom tuned for the highway design into a well performing off road beast. Now days, with the ever-changing SUV market demands, I doubt we will ever see another 20 year run on any SUV (like the Cherokee). The constant change of design on today’s SUV's will make it difficult for aftermarket companies to 'keep up' with the changes and be able to develop hardcore off road products to adapt these new pavement pounders into a off-road machine. Wich in turn will eliminate the Bolt-On group form building the newer Suzuki 4x4's.

It is possible to build one for those of us willing to spend the time/money/effort to make it happen (just look at what we have done with the Kick/Track/Vit when others said it could not be done). I just think that it will be a more difficult task than with what we have now (Kicks and Samis).

My $47.50,
Zig
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: ebewley on August 11, 2005, 06:34:55 AM
Quote from: Zukipilot on August 11, 2005, 03:56:07 AM

Eric,
I thought about this on the way into work this morning and the more I thought the more I dis-liked the thought of a unibody style Suzuki 4x4 to build for off road use. Why ???


Wow! You DO have a long communte! :) But seriously, I think you make a really valid point or two. I'd agree that a vehicle that is built for a certain type of use should work well for that use and may not work well for anything else. Also, the idea of changing model designs every 4 to 5 years does make it difficult to get a strong 'following' going which in turn gets aftermarket entrepenuers envolved. I'd only slightly change that argument to how many units sold vs. how many years being made. I think smart vendors look at the production numbers which in turn should roughly equal demand, if there is an enthusiast base for that vehicle.

-Eric

PS. Sorry for the thread-jack Zaggy...  :)
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: Zukipilot on August 11, 2005, 07:21:54 AM
Yea I would agree with that  :) But I think it would be impossible for vendors to produce as good or as many parts for a vehicle that changes drastically every 4-5 years compared to one that last 10 years. I just hope they find their edge in the market where they get to keep a certain style for a while instead of changing it trying to find the right combo to boost sales.

They did it before with a crazy idea like bringing an inexpensive mini 4x4 into the US market to compete with Jeep and blew them away. I cant wait to see them do it again. But I believe it will take a drasticly crazy idea instead of conforming to the 'standard' of todays SUV's.

Zig

PS- yea, sorry Zag  ;)  (pstttttt: I'd complain to the mod about this hijack if I were you ;D)

Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: SnoFalls on August 11, 2005, 07:26:25 AM
Quote from: cj on August 10, 2005, 07:03:53 PM
Well I can get the Jimny here and I'm still not convinced that I'd want one. It really needs to be more like the older Samurai with some upgrades to be worthwhile.

That's roughly what a jimny is ...

Samijimny
LxWxH135 x 60.6 x 64.6143.1 x 63 x 65.5
Track51.653.7
Weight (curb)20592211
Engine1.3l 8V TPI1.3l 16V MPFI
HP/Torque66/7680.5/81.1
Suspension (f/r)SPUA leaf, solid axel3-link Coil, solid axel
(english units)
(Tranny, TCase, Differentials ... same)
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: xoffroad on August 11, 2005, 01:05:55 PM
"FORENZA"

How many of you remember the Sami commercial back in the early 80's. It's a red sami in Hawaii and the guy is moving cross island... Narrator is talking about the Suzuki's list of features and then the guy is looking at a fridge... Next shot you see the fridge in the back of the sami going down the road.

"FORENZA"

That's what it will take to sell vehicles in this country. Not fancy thrills, luxury packages, Unibody's, etc... SHOW the vehicles capabilities and how a person can utilize it.

"FORENZA"

This is how we got the damn SUV craze anyways, it was ALL marketing. Some of the best commercials were showing what so and so's SUV can do. Not talking about it's warranty or screaming the name of the vehicle each second.

"FORENZA"

Whatever they build it will take strategic marketing and better advertising to sell it. I like there current ad placement but the commercials SUCK! All there selling is "Change the channel that commercials on again" ritual...

"FORENZA BY SUZUKI"

Personally I think the Jimny would sell well in fact I can come up with a great commercial for it as well as a campain. Even the Wagon would kick butt over here in current form with the 1.3L turbo motor. But...

"FORENZA"
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: cj on August 11, 2005, 03:39:01 PM
Quote from: SnoFalls on August 11, 2005, 07:26:25 AM
Quote from: cj on August 10, 2005, 07:03:53 PM
Well I can get the Jimny here and I'm still not convinced that I'd want one. It really needs to be more like the older Samurai with some upgrades to be worthwhile.

That's roughly what a jimny is ...

Samijimny
LxWxH135 x 60.6 x 64.6143.1 x 63 x 65.5
Track51.653.7
Weight (curb)20592211
Engine1.3l 8V TPI1.3l 16V MPFI
HP/Torque66/7680.5/81.1
Suspension (f/r)SPUA leaf, solid axel3-link Coil, solid axel
(english units)
(Tranny, TCase, Differentials ... same)



Actually the t-case is different so you can't use Samurai crawler gears unless you do a t-case swap and it's not a straight swap. Also the front axles and cv's are smaller/weaker than the Samurai. The wheelwells are tiny, you need a 2" suspension lift to get 215/75's on and big suspension and body lifts to get 31's on and you'd better like cutting  ;D Another plus of the older style is the ease of removing body work which makes it a lot easier and cheaper to repair body damage. Don't get me wrong as they are not a bad little unit but they aren't the perfect Samurai replacement either.
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: SnoFalls on August 11, 2005, 05:55:45 PM
what CV's?

jimny is solid front axle. Are you talking about the drive shafts?
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: cj on August 11, 2005, 08:32:26 PM
Oh no! Solid front axle, how do I steer?  ;)
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: cj on August 11, 2005, 08:34:06 PM
Maybe you've heard of people talking about Birfield's? They're CV's.
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: zaggy on August 11, 2005, 09:07:13 PM
Hey CJ

     Over here when you say CV's most guys think CJ axles....one of those slang things....

     As for those thread jackers Eric and Zig....after I complain to the guy in charge all will be forgiven....LOL

By the way Eric/Zig what color can we put yoou down for in our order count?

Zag..............hey Zig/Zag   took me a while to notice that one.
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: SnoFalls on August 12, 2005, 06:54:04 AM
Quote from: cj on August 11, 2005, 08:34:06 PM
Maybe you've heard of people talking about Birfield's? They're CV's.

Ah, ok the birfields. When I hear CV's I think of IFS axels.
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: Zukipilot on August 12, 2005, 01:33:13 PM
Quote from: zaggy on August 11, 2005, 09:07:13 PM

By the way Eric/Zig what color can we put yoou down for in our order count?

Zag..............hey Zig/Zag   took me a while to notice that one.

 ;D I like White  ;D It doea not show scratches  8)

The other part of Zig Zag
Title: Re: Hey Suzuki North America...How many orders would it take?
Post by: toolman21 on August 12, 2005, 04:44:17 PM
The way gas prices have jumped (40+ cents a gallon in 2 weeks here), I am sure the public would jump all over a cheap mini 4wd that got 25-30mpg.....I know I would.