ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Model Specific Suzuki Forum => Suzuki Grand Vitara, Vitara, Chevy Tracker (Gen. 2 Platform) 1999-2005 => Topic started by: JDMCRX on August 11, 2005, 04:02:56 PM
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Im thiking of doing a 2.5" manderal bent with a flowmaster 50 series delta muffler and 3" tip
what u guys got???
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The 2" stock one.
My plan is to just have a shop hack off the OEM muffler and replace it with a 2" in/out Magnaflow muffler and a few inches of pipe. The factory pipe should be plenty wide for an engine of this displacement, might just be stainless steel (at least it looks like it to me), is routed and bent nicely, and on ours, is in pretty good shape. Magnaflows are straight through so they should flow much better than our OEM mufflers.
2.5" seems way to wide for our little engines. With 2.5" wide pipe I'd think you'd loose a lot of the scavenging affect and your power would move much higher in the power band. These things are already rev motors, don't want to loose much of the low end you know?
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The 2" stock one.
My plan is to just have a shop hack off the OEM muffler and replace it with a 2" in/out Magnaflow muffler and a few inches of pipe. The factory pipe should be plenty wide for an engine of this displacement, might just be stainless steel (at least it looks like it to me), is routed and bent nicely, and on ours, is in pretty good shape. Magnaflows are straight through so they should flow much better than our OEM mufflers.
2.5" seems way to wide for our little engines. With 2.5" wide pipe I'd think you'd loose a lot of the scavenging affect and your power would move much higher in the power band. These things are already rev motors, don't want to loose much of the low end you know?
^My thoughts exactly^.
The factory pipes are stainless thats why when they fail they usually fail at the resonator ( that little mini glass pack at the tail pipe).
The pipes and cats on the newer 2.5 are the same size as the ones on the 2.7. I think this is the main area Suzuki got the power increase from.
So if I had the ealier 2.5 I would start with an exhaust system upgrade for more power before I did anything else.
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The newer GV have a 2 1/4" exhaust but the muffler is huge.
My exhaust is the small version which is like 2" all the way back. These motors are a Quad valve and like to rev due to our rod to stroke ratio you can rev them pretty high.
The reason im going with 2.5" is due to reving and also this winter when i get posted im gonna put a paxton blower on it and SDS engine management.
IM gonna do the exhaust and fix up my heat shield on my intake and im gonna put my dads stock rims on my truck and dyno the truck and see what number we can get and get CE1 2NR to put his on cause his is stock.
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Another thought is this motor has small exhaust manifolds and two pre cats and a tiny down pipe so i think this will keep enough back pressure for low end scavanging.
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The newer GV have a 2 1/4" exhaust but the muffler is huge.
How new? My '03 has 2" from the cat back.
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Well the GV's ive seen here im pretty sure were 2 1/4" here in canada maybe i am wrong but fuck the OEM one is tiny.
I do know this in canada the 99-01 come with smaller exhaust then the 02-05
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How new? My '03 has 2" from the cat back.
"04 and up, atleast here in the US.
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Im gonna have to go measure it cause the 05 i saw had a 2.5" tip and look like a 2 1/4" exhuast.
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My tip is around 2.5" too. The pipe itself is 2". A section of 2.25" pipe left over from my Ranger is noticeably wider.
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Hmm im gona have to go look and measure but im sure with the 2.5" ill make some good power.
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Just for shits and grins, why not go down to your local parts place and pick up a proper width glasspack or cherry bomb and some pipe and slap that in place of the factory muffler.
I bet you'll see a big improvement. They'd be straight through so you'd see a noticeable increase in flow and only for $20 or so (US, it's Sunday, you'll have to convert to Canadian). If you like it, find a muffler you like and put it on in the cheapies place. If not, you're only out $20 US or so and can go on with your plan.
Just a thought.
Oh yeah, wanting higher flow and putting a Flowmaster on is kinda working against yourself. Flowmasters have chambers and baffles inside. That means the free flow of air is blocked and redirected...a lot. Kinda hard for them to be free flowing. Maybe better than OEM type mufflers but there are better flowing mufflers out there.
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Ive heard a GV with some midas speacial and a cherry bomb and wow sounds like shit. Ive heard a GV with a cherry bomb and stock pipes ehh not a fan im gonna try the flowmaster and 2.5" and a resonator and see what kids of gains i can get.
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I ment just throw on a better flowing muffler than stock that's relatively cheap and see what the performance gains are. If you like the gains, go buy a good 2" muffler. If you want more, you're out $20 and have a bit more knowledge about what to expect.
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Oh yeah i do not wanna cut up the orig muffler as its mint ill build the exhuats on sat and let u guys know how it fairs out
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Well the exhaust is all on 2.5" manderal bent with a FLow master 50 series its a bit louder then i thought ill throw a resonator on there but wow the power all around on the highway it pulls so much harder love it.
Ill post pics tomorrow
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Cool. Lemme know if you see any fuel mileage gains.
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Well gas millage did not notice but the power what a difference. Hell i can image headers on this thing
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Just out of stupid curiosity does anyone even make headers for these?
Now I'm thinking about taking myself up on my test and doing the cherry bomb special just to see how it goes. :P
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Installed a Flowmaster Delta 50 series today. I left the stock pipes on and adapted up to the flowmaster inlet and adapted down the outlet to the tail pipe. The muffler has larger inlet and outlets! I think it was a 2 1/4 or 2 1/2 inch muffler. Brought a chrome 3 inch straight tip out the back. We used the round muffler hangers (stock) and welded them to the flowmaster. Did this with the help of local exaust shop. Sound is great. Very quite at idle, not much resonance in the Vitara eithier. But a nice bark at 4000 rpm and up. Sort of sounds like a older English sports car (Jag). I will report on perfromance and mpg next week. I drive 350 miles a week to work and will give report on new intake I installed (earlier in Grand Vitara section last week) and the Flowmaster?? Last week (after intake install) and a full tank through the GV. Milage dropped from 24.025 (stock air set up) to 23.770 (short ram with cone filter). I did maintain same driving habits and route to work too!
It will be interesting to see if the exaust helps out on mpg? I can tell perfromance is up at 4000 rpm and up though. Great for hi-way driving. A small loss of power on low end though!
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Well all i know is my low end is alotttt better now and highway it pulls alot harder u can notice it. The MPG i think is better i got 500km on this tank and still got more to go so i think its better on gas
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Pics of the Exhaust all manderal bent.
(http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/5/web/653000-653999/653856_85_full.jpg)
U can see the stock vs the 2.5"
(http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/5/web/653000-653999/653856_86_full.jpg)
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Nice job on the 2.5 exaust. The muffler I took of my 05 was quite a bit larger and no resonator!! Will report on MPG this weekend when I fill up?
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After 700 miles with air intake and flowmaster delta 50. Power up, most noticed at mid to hi rpm. MPG came up from 23.7 to 24.3. The sound of the flowmaster delta 50 is quite nice. Not to loud inside, yet a nice mellow bark outside. The above mpg is normal drive to work speeds. Interstate 70-75 mph, some side roads 55-60 mph. Hot temps 105 to 110 with ac on. In Phoenix, Az. area. This is leaving the stock pipes and just adapting the 2 1/2 fowmaster up and down to the exaust system. I really hated to trash the new exaust altogether!! So just the muffler went.... I would reccomend this combo not very expensive, with very satisfactory results. Would guess 5-8 horse power gain and a little better fuel economy.
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Could anyone forward me to a site explaining a little about exhaust pipes/mufflers etc? I had the idea of getting rid of the muffler and catalizer alltogether, only a straight pipe to the back. I have a friend who has this setup and it isn't too loud (the turbo dampens most of the noise) and the power increase is quite noticeable.
But questions arise, such as backpressure, what tube width to use, etc...
Thanks for any help! ;D
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You want as little backpressure as possible, but you don't want to go so wide with the exhaust pipe that the exhaust gasses aren't being pushed out of the pipe. General rule of thumb is you don't want a pipe much wider than half an inch wider than your stock pipe unless your vehicle came with really narrow pipes, has a high rpm gas motor, or a turbo'd to hell diesel.
Some of the turbo diesel guys with the built Cummins, Duramax, and Powerstroke engines here are using 5" and wider exhaust. :o
I don't know about Spain but here (USA) it'd be illegal to remove the cat and muffler. You could take the muffler off since the cat filters the exhaust gasses and does quiet down the exhaust a bit, but Federal laws say you can't remove or tamper with any of the emissions equipment except for replacement or repair. If Spain has something like that I wouldn't recommend it. If you don't have noise laws either take the muffler off and run wider pipe or put a straight in straight out muffler on and wider pipe. Factory equipment mufflers aren't the best flowing designs.
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OK, thanks for the input AJMBLAZER. We do have emissions and noise laws here. Having seen the results on my friend's GV, I believe that it is quiet enough to pass noise tests, although it is illegal to tamper with the catalizer. Does the catalizer reduce HP? One reason I wanted to get rid of it is because it is so close to the ground. Maybe it would be better to relocate it higher up...
Thanks again...
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Modern catalytic convertors aren't very restrictive. The big heavy brick types from the 70's and early 80's were but modern ones are very much better flowing. However the stygma from the original cats remains. One of the big hot rod magazines here did a test a while back of a car with regular factory type cats, no cats (straight pipe), and an aftermarket high flow cat. The car actually lost power (although it was only like 2hp) with no cats and the gain with the aftermarket high flow cat was equally small.
I say leave the cat there. It serves as your muffler anyways.
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OK, thanks a lot. I'll keep the cat then, but I would like to relocate it higher up once I get my BL on (if I ever ge to it ::)). I'll keep you all updated when/if this happens ;).
Once again, thanks!
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Just wondering if anyone has replaced the y-pipe yet?
I'm thinking of doing this bit only as the rest of the exhaust is a good size and the muffler is MASSIVE (later models).
Do you think it will be worth it? on Aust models we dont have the pre-cats and that 90deg bend, so its only for the size and the way the two pipes join the main cat.
p.s. You guys are funny, always going on about MPG ;D
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Im in the process of gonna build some new downpipes. But next summer truck wil lbe turbod 2 IHI turbos and SDS fuel management and a full 3" exhaust and more
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Im in the process of gonna build some new downpipes. But next summer truck wil lbe turbod 2 IHI turbos and SDS fuel management and a full 3" exhaust and more
Have you looked into superchargers??? might be less work than twin turbos. Also where are you going to fit them???
George
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I fitted two IHI's there is lots of room for them supercharger if i can get a good deal
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I fitted two IHI's there is lots of room for them supercharger if i can get a good deal
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sounds like you know what you're doing, its alot of work though. Twin turbos would go nicely in there but oil lines, exhaust manifolds, fuel system, intercooling, sensors etc. what a hassle.
Will you be leaving the internals standard? (9.5:1)
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OH yeah 9.5 is fine i know how to tune. I can run 5psi no prob on some some IHI or tdo4's
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Well, just had the 2" in/out Magnaflow put on today. The wife likes it. When you get on it it has this sports car/high performance rev to it and a bit of a burble when you let off - just like I like it. Definately picked up some power, carrys more hills in OD instead of downshifting and the wife says at 55mph it's doing a little less rpm. Works for me. I'll put a pic up but all I had the shop do was put the Magnaflow and about a foot of pipe in where the stock muffler was. Might put a tip on it to play with the sound but eh, maybe not.
The wife likes it so that's what matters. ;D
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Nice man
Im in the mist maybe just gonna do a y pipe the stocker is soo tiny dham
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I think other than a possible tip we're done with the exhaust until something fails and needs replacing. This muffler flows so much better than the factory 2' long garbage can muffler it's ridiculous. You can literally see straight through it. No baffles, curves, filters, screens, zig zags, whatever.
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Okay, here's the muffler.
(http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/2175000-2175999/2175091_9_full.jpg)
Nothing fancy but it sounds a lot better and has picked up some pep.
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Looks nice man
Yeah indead it picks up better if u go to my vids i posted u can hear mine at WOT