ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Dihnekis on August 17, 2005, 05:57:48 AM
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I have a 2wd 1994 Tracker that I have been messing around with off road for some time. I hardly ever get stuck, because I go through the mud and stuff at greater speed than those with 4x4. Any time there is an incline and I don't have much speed my tracker cannot handle it though, because the power wheel loses traction and then I have to have my friends push me out (which takes 30 seconds because my car is so light).
Here is where I need help. I'd love to attempt a 4x4 conversion, and make my tracker a 4x4. I've been looking around for cheap 4x4 trackers or samurais or sidekicks, but I haven't found any in my area in my price range. I have a lot of junkyards that I'm going to start checking for parts trucks... should I even bother? Is a 4wd conversion practical at all? Can anyone type up a list of all the parts that differ on a 4wd tracker that I would need to get (T-case, 4wd shifter, front axle, locking hubs etc) Thanks for the help.
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I have a 2wd 1994 Tracker that I have been messing around with off road for some time. I hardly ever get stuck, because I go through the mud and stuff at greater speed than those with 4x4. Any time there is an incline and I don't have much speed my tracker cannot handle it though, because the power wheel loses traction and then I have to have my friends push me out (which takes 30 seconds because my car is so light).
Here is where I need help. I'd love to attempt a 4x4 conversion, and make my tracker a 4x4. I've been looking around for cheap 4x4 trackers or samurais or sidekicks, but I haven't found any in my area in my price range. I have a lot of junkyards that I'm going to start checking for parts trucks... should I even bother? Is a 4wd conversion practical at all? Can anyone type up a list of all the parts that differ on a 4wd tracker that I would need to get (T-case, 4wd shifter, front axle, locking hubs etc) Thanks for the help.
Very possible. There are some mounting tabs for the front diff that are not on your 2wd chassis but other than that it is just swapping all of the pieces parts over. I almost positive Mr. Hagen has done this conversion... Hey Mikey, whatd'yaknow? ;D
-Eric
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Another cheaper option is to put a lockrite locker in the rear. That will give you 2 drive wheels and be similiar to an unlocked 4x4.
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What parts besides
Hubs
Transfer Case
Front Axle
4x4 shifter
Front differential mounting brackets
are different on my tracker that I need to get?
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Ok I found a website describing how to do this with a samurai, and for that conversion all that was needed was a Transfer case, front driveshaft, and front axle, all of which bolted right in. Is it the same for the tracker/sidekick 2wd? On the samurai there was just a metal plate with 4 bolts covering where the transfer case shifter usually goes, and it was all together a very easy install.
I found the page
http://www.izook.com/tech/samurai/suspension/2wd_4wd/2wd4wd.htm
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Most small vehicles like these have the same Chasis, I would look under the front of the tracker and see if there is a mounting postion for the diferintal, the 4x4 and 2X4 use IFS, so there is a good possibility that there are mounting points, if not then its probably an issue of taking the whole front assymbly, control arm to control arm and bolting it into the 2X4 chasis and if yer gona do that why not just bolt a toyo front IFS under it? or just go to SAS and lockers.
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I've heard people talking about using the toyota IFS, but I don't really know what that consists of, such as where to get it and what it comes off. I've heard its stronger, but I don't really know anything about it. Could I use the toyota IFS and then just get a new driveshaft and t-case?
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I just went out and looked under my tracker, and there is already a spot for the shifter cut through the floor, right now its just a plastic tray I have change in but I can see it.
Would I be able to use my current transmission on this?
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no you will need to 4wd tcase.
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no you will need to 4wd tcase.
huh?
Oh yeah and thanks for the help so far guys, I've learned a lot.
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Do the lock rite and see if you need more. You will be suprised ;D
Kevin
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I called up a local junkyard and theyve got a 95 tracker 4x4 2door... its just missing the soft top and the radio, which I don't really care about. I'll go look at it tomorrow, but the guy wants $1200 for the whole thing. It runs supposedly, but I doubt its worth $1200.
I'm starting to think a lock rite and a 2" body lift and some 31s will be fine for what I do. With a 2" calmini body lift could I clear 31s?
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dicker down on the complete 4x4 ... sell the 2x4, and go from there.
2" BL, some spacers for the springs (or go OME springs and struts), some fender trim, 31's are good (and aren't too hard on the stock driveline). Lock the rear (and front also to be nearly unstoppable) ...
that's what I've done for about 12 hard trail runs so far this year and yet to have breakage.
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Selling my tracker isn't really feasible, its my only mode of transportation and it is very reliable, and I don't want to get a sketchy new tracker that might or might not have a lot more things wrong with it. I'll see how much I get all the 4x4 parts off the other tracker for, and do a conversion, or I will just go with a locker and body lift... which I will eventually do to the 4x4 anyway.
I'm going to go look at it tomorrow and maybe come home with some parts, is there anything I need besides
Front Driveshaft
Front Axle
Transfer Case
I've asked it a few times, but I would really appreciate an answer.
Edit: Actually if any of you don't mind taking a few pictures of underneath your track/kicks, maybe showing the transfer case's position as well as the front axle and so on I would greatly appreciate it.
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At LAST!! This is right up my alley. :D
I have a 1998 ZJ that I converted to 4wd. The process is really not that different.
here (http://www.geocities.com/b1pig)
On the Trak/Kick, you will basically need the following:
4wd Tranny
transfercase
front &rear driveshafts
Front Differential
Front CV shafts
Hubs
Now. I am not positive that the Track/Kick is similar to the XJ/ZJ in that the bearings are preloaded by the front stub axle or not. You may want to snag the whole knuckle assy on each side.
You will also need to be sure that the gear ratios on the donor rig match yours. Or swap the axle, too. The Track/Kick does not have a divorced transfercase, so a 4wd tranny is required. It makes the swap more difficult. The absolute easiest way is to have all the stuff from a SINGLE rig in order to get it. If you don't have that, then you can gather all the individual peices as you go. I did with my ZJ, and had about $1100 invested total in the swap and initial 3" lift. You will need to examine the speedo cable to see if it will be long enough once you get the t-case/tranny in.
As many people ask when it comes down to it... why not get a 4wd track/kick? They are more plentiful in the used market than ZJs and WAY cheaper.... cost was my fuel at the time. (and how much the zj was costing me...)
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Thanks for your help b1pig, I didn't know I couldn't keep my old transmission. Are you sure I need to get a whole new one, I have a dummy transfer case on my transmission and couldnt I just swap that for the real one?
And cost is a factor for me, a major factor... all the used track/kicks I've found near me are in the 2k-3k range, where at the most a 4x4 conversion is going to cost me $1200. I'm only 17 and I bought this tracker for $2k, a few years ago with 50k miles on it. All the money going towars this project is from my part time job on the weekends, so money is pretty tight. My tracker is in great condition, and I've become pretty attached to it, and its only got 83k miles on it.
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/89-95-GEO-TRACKER-AUTOMATC-4X4-TRANSMISSION_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33727QQitemZ7992443646QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
Here is a 4wd tranny/tcase on ebay.
Compare it to what is under your ride. If you want further, tell me quick. I have the tranny/tcase/engine out of my Tracker right now, and will be installing it in the morning. I can snap pics and post them by tomorrow.
The thing is, that when you get TOO invovled in converting parts, then it can get super complicated. On TH350's, you can get by swapping the rear housing and the output shaft, but it requires COMPLETE disassembly of the tranny. :o
By far, the simplest... yet costly option is to put in another. I am new ot the Track/Kick scene, but if my memory serves me right, the Sami has a divorced transfercase. If I'm wrong, someone correct me fast. ;)
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-Samurai-1991-Manual-5-Speed-Transmission_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33733QQitemZ7993704821QQrdZ1
here is one for a sami. note that there is no indication for 2wd or 4wd? there are a couple on there, and none of the sales mention it... or i'm just flat blind. :D
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUZUKI-SAMURAI-TRANSFERCASE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6763QQitemZ7993956133QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
Here is one for a Sami T-case. DEFINITELY a divorced 'case. You could swap that in... but you will have to fab up your own mounts that can handle the torque. MUCH easier just to get a 4wd tranny/t-case. BTW.. most are going to come together. Alot of yards just leave them together. the bigger yards will separate them.
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My transmission looks different from the one you posted above for the sidekick, but then I have a 5 speed and it is an automatic. I'd love pictures of your while it is out, and even while it is in from underneath... I'm positive I have something where the T-case goes, and I know it can be seperated from the transmission and I'm pretty sure you can just bolt a transfer case right on there. I've only seen my transmission from underneath, so I'm not positive if that one matches mine or not.
I'm new to this and messing with 4x4 in general, so I'm probably wrong. My dad is going to be helping me with most of the installation, and he knows what he is doing.
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Mine is an auto also.... but the theory is the same.
I'll take a pic of it. it is sitting on the bench in the shop.
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I had some pics of underneath mine, to show you what I mean about the dummy t-case... I'll take some more tomorrow. It isn't that big of an issue, because if I am committed to this I can just rip the transmission out of the parts tracker too.
Thanks again.
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tranny/'case(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QQCXArgR*B7MQZZO3djXMTsuc6mWMlJ4lPZgcEg7PCrYuMYB0ToAqPKfkdaciV5U5TS8yV*haEv!jo5ft3VWu!L5Dm7Zc4Ab8ITpNETyZCw/MVC-909F.JPG?dc=4675535618467145448)
the 'case half
(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QQCnArARNR2EBxCeF0LjNjn9xFbbANcC8ODi9OIXTXRmzry!vwj7dgL5egbtUUcdjWoJBH!8f1Pc53J7XPc2Uf1nIdG67F9!woL7087EcDY/MVC-910F.JPG?dc=4675535618469706521)
the tranny half
(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QQAAALERbh2EBxCeF0LjNn40z71qZScF0eiovR6wMw3aQHfXS8R8YjAXSfJahXjb!kRPmZ*NEpyW2f1bSelAWTyEZNGqkM!zarTSzFWmUMY/MVC-911F.JPG?dc=4675535618472240552)
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BTW if this is a 3 speed auto,
it's a TH180. I would like to find
out if there are any other Trans
that would work tho
Wild
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yea, this is a TH180 from my '90.
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Selling my tracker isn't really feasible, its my only mode of transportation and it is very reliable, and I don't want to get a sketchy new tracker that might or might not have a lot more things wrong with it. I'll see how much I get all the 4x4 parts off the other tracker for, and do a conversion, or I will just go with a locker and body lift... which I will eventually do to the 4x4 anyway.
I'm going to go look at it tomorrow and maybe come home with some parts, is there anything I need besides
Front Driveshaft
Front Axle
Transfer Case
I've asked it a few times, but I would really appreciate an answer.
Edit: Actually if any of you don't mind taking a few pictures of underneath your track/kicks, maybe showing the transfer case's position as well as the front axle and so on I would greatly appreciate it.
If you can get the parts, the biggest hurdle you'll have is the tranny/t-case install. Your vehicle will be down till you get those things installed. Installing the front axle, shafts, etc won't put your truck down for a period of time. By installing the pieces in steps, you can get most of it done. Then on a weekend when you can have the vehicle down, you could work getting the tranny/t-case together and in.
Being 17, I can understand the situation. However, being 40+ now, I suggest this to you: consider the 4x4 as a trail running rig. No top, no problem, just drive it clothed for the weather. You could always look at getting a soft top used off someone. I'd get the 4x4 (make payments to the yard or Dad/Mom), modify that for your tastes and expense, keep the 2wd as a daily, and when it comes to making a decision on keeping which, look at your next couple of years - meaning jobs prospects, girlfriends, what you want to do (college, trade school, service, etc.), living at home or on your own, all that. Insurance is a big player in your ride also, so consider that too. Good luck.
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If you can get the parts, the biggest hurdle you'll have is the tranny/t-case install. Your vehicle will be down till you get those things installed. Installing the front axle, shafts, etc won't put your truck down for a period of time. By installing the pieces in steps, you can get most of it done. Then on a weekend when you can have the vehicle down, you could work getting the tranny/t-case together and in.
Being 17, I can understand the situation. However, being 40+ now, I suggest this to you: consider the 4x4 as a trail running rig. No top, no problem, just drive it clothed for the weather. You could always look at getting a soft top used off someone. I'd get the 4x4 (make payments to the yard or Dad/Mom), modify that for your tastes and expense, keep the 2wd as a daily, and when it comes to making a decision on keeping which, look at your next couple of years - meaning jobs prospects, girlfriends, what you want to do (college, trade school, service, etc.), living at home or on your own, all that. Insurance is a big player in your ride also, so consider that too. Good luck.
Well the tracker that the yard has turned out to be only 2wd and in terrible shape, so that is out of the picture. Now I'm pretty much set on just going with a locker and a lift, I just go mudding and in the sand anyway no rock crawling or anything, and I rarely get stuck as it is with an open differential 2wd on 195/75/15s. And if I do, it adds to the fun, and I've only been in a situation where my friends couldn't just push my 2100 pound tracker out once or twice. I have to hit mud holes and sand a lot faster than my friends with 4x4 do, but that makes it more fun anyway. When we go wheeling people fight over being able to ride in my tracker, because its way more fun than crawling through a mud hole at 5mph.
Converting to 4x4 would spend a lot of my money and take a lot of time, between locating the parts and installing them. My list of upgrades is already going to set me back more than I have, between ($200)exhaust, ($150) lift, ($400) tires, ($220) locker, ($60) air filter and ($?) new front bumper, ($100) hi-lift, not to mention $500 in insurance I have to pay by the end of september, and of course the $3 a gallon gas prices. Adding $500-$1000 to that to change my car to 4x4 isn't really practical right now. I'll keep my eye out for a 4x4 trackick with a blown motor though, because if I really want to get serious about this I'll have to get 4x4.
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Converting to 4x4 would spend a lot of my money and take a lot of time, between locating the parts and installing them. My list of upgrades is already going to set me back more than I have, between ($200)exhaust, ($150) lift, ($400) tires, ($220) locker, ($60) air filter and ($?) new front bumper, ($100) hi-lift, not to mention $500 in insurance I have to pay by the end of september, and of course the $3 a gallon gas prices. Adding $500-$1000 to that to change my car to 4x4 isn't really practical right now. I'll keep my eye out for a 4x4 trackick with a blown motor though, because if I really want to get serious about this I'll have to get 4x4.
good plan ... look at this way too ... if you do find a 4x4 you wanna build on, all the stuff you did to the 4x2 can be used (lift, exhaust, etc).
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Yeah, I had that in mind. I will still have fun with my 2wd. I already take it further than a few of my buddies with 4x4, because they have fullsizes and can't fit down the small trails I go down. I live in florida, so there are zero rocks and zero hills, which is where 4x4 really comes in handy so I do pretty good already.
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Sounds like a plan indeed. Though, I'd be hesistant about hitting anything hard with a vehicle, especially offroad. You never know when Dr. Murphy pops his little head out.
If I was you, and this comes from learning experience which you'll have to learn yourself, keep it on the hard stuff to those with capabilities and don't push yours too much.
My Dad gave me his 71 v8 Dart when I turned 16. I put money into a cam, headers, exhaust, ignition, rebuilt trans, and carb. Then I smoked his bias snow tires within 1 month. These tires lasted him some 4 years and he wondered why.....So I had to get tires. Then pay for insurance, then pay for other things which kept me dry in the money aspect. Don't get me wrong, it was my way of learning, for sure. I still do the same thing today, and yah I hear it from him still about the learning curve....just that mine's sort of flat.....lol
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Yeah, I don't hit things toooo hard, just about double the speed 4x4s hit stuff at. I've never broken anything yet, and I've been wheeling about once a week in sand and mud and water for over a year now. I know somethings eventually going to break, but I'm not too concerned. It is all good fun, even getting stuck.
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Well I started calling salvage yards and I finally found a place that has a 4x4 tracker. Its a 90 5speed with all the parts I need pulled off, been sitting for 2 years and aren't going anywhere. The guy wants $450 for the front axle hub to hub, front driveshaft, and transfer case, and if I need a transmission he will throw that in for $200.
I don't have that kind of cash and wont for about 2 months, but I think I will do it when I get the money.
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Ok well I've got the cash and I've talked the man down to $500 for everything including transmission, as well found another tracker sitting in a field I can take anything I need off for $300, just a lot more work.
My question, again, is do I absolutely have to change transmissions? From what I've heard from mikerpm4x4 and Ronin's writeup on zuwharrie, neither of them mentioned changing their transmissions. It would make things a lot simpler if I didn't have to, as well as cheaper.
Does anyone know for sure that the 2wd and 4wd transmissions differ, and there is no way for a 2wd one to mate up with a tcase?