ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: BV1 on August 18, 2005, 03:46:58 PM
-
Hey all, just signed up, the board is awesome, so many users, so much info. My name is Steve (aka BV1) and I am from Winnipeg,MB,Canada.
I drive a 1997 Suzuki X90 4x4. Just got it:
http://www.members.shaw.ca/diatech/x90-2.jpg
Theres only one problem:
http://www.members.shaw.ca/diatech/x90-3.jpg
As you might have guessed by the subject its an auto.
I am pretty good with my cars, but I mainly work on engines, not alot of transmission and suspension work. My previous car was a 350 HP AWD Talon TSI, and I got this for winter and the crazy gas prices.
I am serious about going ahead with the swap, and I searched and read some of the others peoples posts on here but didnt get the answers I was looking for, for sure.
I need to know for sure:
1) if rear diff gear ratios are the same between manuals and auto's 95-98.
2) if the firewall has provisions for the 5spd cables etc already drilled... in the autos. (A pic of a 5spd 95-98 Sidekick/x90 would be great for this!)
3) if we have a hydraulic clutch in the 95-98 Manuals.
4) if the T-case is the same?
5) if the ECM is the same or at least will work for now if I swap it.
6) if the 4x4 system bolts right up, no probems, compared to a 2wd?
7) if ANYONE has ever done it successfully.
I want to do a good job, and I AM going to try my best, I won't get deterred from it. I cant wait for a 5spd, would be so much more fun.
If you guys could help me out, if anyone knows or has done this before it would be great.
Thanks,
-Steve
-
Isn't that a 4 speed auto ???
I wouldn't swap it, if you plan
on wheeling it you will learn to love
the auto trans.
I know you will find diehard 5 speed guys and
I know you will find diehard auto guys, I have
only wheeled a Kick with an auto, there seems
to be an advantage to the auto, I have yet to
break a front diff Really, even witht he Turbo
putting out almost twice the stock HP on 33"
Swampers. You might also rethink the auto
with the shortage of 5.83 gears that are on
backorder with no available delivery date.
An auto trans can get some 5.13 Man trans
gears and turn 31" tires with stock like ratios
BTW autos came with 4.62 gears and man's came
with 5.13s, unless you got a California model with
4.30 gears
Just some info to think about, and as far as holes
for the cables and stuff, I think it's all there, camputer
is different and I think the 2WD has a dummy T-case
so the 4WD stuff should bolt up, altho the frame might
be missing some mount points for the front axle housing.
Not sure why you were asking that, as you have a 4x4 but
you also asked too
Good Luck
Wild
-
I'll reiterate ... learn to luv the auto ...
For drags (mud or street), a manual has it's place, but for 4wd trails, an auto is awesome.
The advantage an auto has is you can push it hard for periods (aka tough climbs), and it takes it without bother. Auto's are built to take that period of slippage/stress. A manual in the same situation requires "burning the clutch".
I spent 45 minutes trying a climb, and no one could figure why they didn't smell clutch (till they found I had an auto). I checked the fluid afterwards, not a smell of fluid burn. The built in "slush" has it's place, and I like it!
-
Thanks guys glad an Auto has such appreciation :)
It is the 4x4, 4spd auto but I want a bit more speed, for the street. I have headers, pulleys and the intake amd exhaust on the way.
So my 4spd auto will be for sale when I am done the swap, its only got 38,000 miles on it.... :)
If any of you guys have a 5 spd, can you take a pic of the engine bay, firewall in particular. Looking where they run the lines etc.
On an aside, Wild, what kind of turbo you running? What about Fuel management, and compression ratio? Being a diehard turbo guy, this interests me :)
Thanks again guys,
-Steve
-
http://wildcatent.freeyellow.com/zookmods
This should give you a good start on the Turbo Buildup
PM me or post here with any more Qs
;)
Wild
-
LOL, thats the sticker I put in my sun visors in my Talon :) Nice work. Hard to believe you were really running lean under 4 psi boost. Crazy. I would have just upped the fuel pressure reg, and moderated the injector pulse width with an S-AFC II.
Heres my car:
http://www.members.shaw.ca/diatech/Talon2.JPG
http://www.members.shaw.ca/diatech/interiornew.JPG
-Steve
-
I did, but a 50 PPH injector at 80 PSI
can only flow so much, over that PSI
the injector refused to open.
I maxxed out the stock injector and
4x19 PPH injectors, couldn't get a rich
reading with 100% duty cycle on the
4x19 Pounders (high ohm Ford Escort)
I swapped in 4x35 PPH turbo T-bird injectors
and now I can run with just the 4 on the MegaSquirt
EFI system, I loaded the dual table program so
I could run one channel fuel and one channel Water/Alcohol
injection. I wanted to use the stock TBI for the H2O injection
but now I'm going to a 16V head and the TBI doesn't fit
on the 16V intake system.
-
Very nice :)
I am going to take a look at turboing the X after I get the swap done. I will be using a T25 turbo with some 390 cc injectors I have kicking around, and a AFPR until I see how much the stock pump can flow. Only looking to run about 7 psi or so. My talon ran 21 :)
For now though, I am going to get a parts car for the Manual swap.
How hard is it to change the diff gears? I have yet to do this, ever...
Do you think it will even run with the Auto ECU in the manual?
-Steve
-
Zuk's have "third members". You can pull out the whole center and swap in new gears from a five speed.
Welcome!
Cwkick
-
I think the Auto ECU would work with the Auto Trans,
it has inputs or outputs for the shifting and TC lockup,
but the ECU might also pop a Check Engine Light from
not getting a feedback from the trans
Wild
-
I think the Auto ECU would work with the Auto Trans,
it has inputs or outputs for the shifting and TC lockup,
but the ECU might also pop a Check Engine Light from
not getting a feedback from the trans
Wild
My thoughts exactly, well hope we are right.
So far I have:
Transmission it self
Clutch pedals
Linkages
Rear diff gears
And I was told potentially the ECU and Starter motor from another guy also.
-
The starter is the same
-
I think you guys got all the bits covered.
The ECM should work...I've tried it for testing purposes...but the check engine light does come on and won't go out. From what I have been able to find out it's
- No input from automatic
- Different idle speed and O2 readings
Zag
-
How would the idle speed and 02 be different if you just change the transmission? Just curious, same o2 sensor wouldnt it be?
I would think, if the engine wants to idle at a certain speed with an auto (say 700 rpm) it will idle at that speed with a manual? If the 02 sensor read .94 volts for a rich mixture on an auto would it not be the same for the manual?
Just trying to understand. Although the CEL for the no input from the Auto is pretty straight forward. Is the "Auto computer" built in to the ECU or is there a seperate control unit?
Thanks,
-Steve
-
More familiar with the 3 speed ones that the 4 speed
But I do know that there is an idle speed difference
- ie install a manual trans ECU in a 93 auto and it will run rich (very minor) at idle, enough to
fail emissions and the idle speed is lower...check engine light comes on and there is no way
to get it off no matter how many relays and sensors you change, the 3speed auto is not
even connected to the ECU so the difference is in the programing. I learned this
one from trying it.
Friend at GM is a diagnostic tech and he is the one that told me of the differences, couldn't find any other explanation, so his makes sense.
I understand with the 4speed auto the trans computer is built in.
Zag
-
BTW autos came with 4.62 gears and man's came
with 5.13s, unless you got a California model with
4.30 gears
Are you sure on this for the X90's?
I was reading on: http://x90.zukiweb.com/faqs.htm#general1
"Q: What were the model differences?
A: Throughout its three year run, the X-90 remained virtually unchanged. All had the 1.6L 16v 4 cylinder (the same found in the Sidekick), 4.62 gears in the diffs on both Auto and Manual models, and Auto locking hubs (4WD models). 4WD was available on both Auto and Manual models and T-Tops were standard for all years and models. Power accessories were also standard across the board, while top of the line 4WD models got remote door locks and a factory alarm system.
The only big difference was the 98s (and possibly some late production 97s) got black leather interior and dark grey interior accents in place of the cloth on ealier models.
Two main wheel styles were available in the US specific to the X-90. The 2WDs models got 3 spoke "swoosh" aluminum wheels with plastic snap in center caps while the 4WD models got sporty looking 5 spoke aluminum wheels. There were various X-90s that came with 8 hole steel wheels similar to those found on the Sidekicks sold at the time."
How do I know for sure when I am swapping?
Thanks,
-Steve
-
Q: Are they similar to Suzuki Sidekicks/Geo Trackers?
A: Yes, in actuallity, the X-90 is really just a Sidekick with a different body. They share the same frame and running gear with the Sidekick and Tracker as well as the same engine and drivetrain.
If this is true Yes.
Zig has an X90, I guess we should put this
to the test and find out
I don't trust many sources for info, too many
people out there that don't check their facts,
like the Consumers Report that the 16V is a
DOHC (dual overhead cam) which it's not
Wild
-
Well I am not sure how to tell which gear is which, but I am going to the auction today and there is a 95 Sidekick 4 cyl 5spd for PARTS ONLY, so I hope to get it as my parts car.
When I am swapping I will check this out.
Thanks guys,
-Steve
-
Keep us posted on the swap, and pictures are always good, I think this would make a great how-to.
-
Ahh crap I went there, and it was a 2WD w/ the 8v eng.
It LOOKED like the 5spd tranny would bolt up to the 16v eng, but the ecu would be different, and there was no "dummy transfer case" like some suggested so I probably couldnt use the tranny.
The rear drive shaft went right to the transmission and it didn't look like the same connection and placing as where the 4WD transfer case connects to the transmission, so I let it go. ($650 cdn +tax)
On an aside, correct me if I am wrong. I noticed the transmission on the 4WD connects to the transfer case, which has outputs to the front and rear diffs.
SO, if I am swapping just the transmission, I dont really need to change any diffs do I? I mean it wont affect the operation of the 4WD etc because no matter what the gears are, both front and rear get there power from the transfer case so the turn ratios etc will all be the same.
So worst case scenario even if the gears are different in the auto/manual, everything will still work correct? Just a different gear ratio when driving?
Correct me if I am wrong,
On an aside, I went to the wrecker and I found a 96 sidekick 5sp 4x4 and I BELIEVE I found the ECU on the right side of driverside, near the kick panel and fuses. BUT It had a Mitsubushi symbol on the case???? 3 connectors, 80 pins or so. Is this right?
Thanks,
-Steve
-
Yes, Mitsubishi built the EFI computer for the Track/Kicks,
I don't know if all or some are Mitsu, but mine is (89')
Wild
-
All are Mitsubishi
Zag
-
Great info, thanks!
What about the diffs? I shouldnt have to swap them right?
-Steve
-
You don't have to swap diffs if you don't want to but.........
Be sure to swap the speedo drive so your speedo stays accurate
Zag
-
Good point! Thanks a bundle, starting today.
-Steve
-
I am contemplating going the other direction on the Goblin. He's running the 5 speed manual with stock 5.12's in the diffs and 33's. I'm running around with a pair of sammys that are locked with gear reductions and slipping the clutch all day long is getting old quick! Plus I figured if I keep the 5.12's and swap in a 3 speed auto, I could add a tranny cooler and just chug along behind them all day long. Sort of like a cheater way to better R&P ratio...
What all would I need to swap a 3 speed auto into it? My ECM should work fine, right? Or would I need the ECM as well as the tranny and shifter? What about driveshaft lengths and t-cases? can I re-use my stockers from the manual or would I need to get the ones from the auto rig?
-
Well, I will have a mint condition Auto with only 38k on it as well as the ECU and all the parts for sale shortly. Its a 4 spd Auto and the lockup works perfect, making it a 5sp auto lol.
Let me know,
-Steve