ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum
ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: Twan013 on September 09, 2005, 08:28:21 PM
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Hey guys, i think i've tried to ask this before, but never really got an answer, so i'm gonna try again... why does everyone go for the calmini kits, even if they don't run the winches and bumpers? all i ever hear is about calmini, except for the very seldom homemade kit... i don't think i've found any thing on rocky road's lift kit... last time i asked all i got was "you should get what you want, and don't let other's persuade you otherwise"... the only information that i really have is the stuff that is on the RRO website, and that sounds a heck of a lot better than calmini's... and then i get on here, and absolutely everything is calmini, good and bad.. i just want a straight answer from SOMEBODY... preferrably someone that has the rocksteady kit, or has tried it before....
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Probably not the guy you want to answer your questions, But Here it goes.
Having only the information that you have (the Rocky Road web site) from what I've seen all that the Rock Ready kit as is the same as what people are making them selves for a lot less money. That is of course minus the OME struts and shocks.
Calmini on the other hand makes a kit that has a lot of new parts and have done some fabrication that took a lot of work. Consiquently it is pricey and very involved to install. Now to go back to what you were told earlier, just do the best that you can. with what you know, and go from there.
I got my Calmini because at the time they were the only people that I could find that was making a lift for the Track Kick.
Today if I were to do it all over again I'ld probably start with an SAS and go 35's, But hey we all got to start some where.
Utah
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ok ok ok... I THINK I've figured it out... the RRO kit uses OME springs, shocks and struts, approx. $700 right? well, i found an archived thing about a budget lift, and at first i thought it was talking about using front springs from a GV, and rear springs from an e-150.... but i misunderstood that (e150 uses leaf springs)... but that thing DID say this exactly: "using stock Grand Vitara springs on a Sidekick might lift it similar to the Old Man Emu springs"..... is this what you're talking about? i found out that when they said to use e150 springs, they meant shocks... but then i was told that the crown victoria shocks are better... for the rear anyway... but what about the front? I'm looking for a lift with a somewhat comfortable ride and decent flex... i don't want SAS because it is too much money, and solid axles seem more for rockcrawling... my interest is more in the high speed backwoods and mud trails.. so i want SOME flex, but not pure flex.. this is a daily driver... so obviously, i don't want a major lift.. 3 inches absolute max... another thing, as long as it doesn't involve welding/cutting, i'm willing to do it... i don't want to pay someone else to do it, and i don't know how to weld... one last question, which i think is right anyway, but i'm just making 100% sure... the GV is the same as the newer model 4-door trackers right? as far as springs go anyway..
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Hi Twan013,
Well here goes.
I have modified a Kick in the past using original front arms etc. I lifted my Kick 4" and retained the stock springs. I did have to weld plates to the ball joint mounting plate and redrill the holes outwards to get my camber back (front end) - the OME struts compensate for this in their design. The rest was all pretty basic stuff using coil spacers - cheap and effective. The front did feel a little firmer than stock though - I suspect it was the angle of the arms: / \ = less leverage :-\, but it was still better than my Sammy ;)
The Calmini kit adresses ALL the issues: Camber, castor, rear "A" arm angles, front CV angles with a biggish lift and longer springs instead of spacers. The kit is a real work of art and has been very carefully developed, adressing all the complexities of such a lift.
Both kits have their place, one if you are on a budget, the other if you want a complex and inovative package with that little bit extra.
NB: Some people have even "enhanced" the Calmini kit to provide a 5" lift :o. You got to be impressed ;D When you consider that a few years ago people were saying you cant lift a Kick and make it perform in the real world of 4x4 - and so they eat humble pie :D AGAIN!!!
Good luck. Hope this helps a little 8)
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I don't think there is anything "wrong" with the RRO "kit", but it really is just OME springs, some spacers, OME struts and a BL.
I'm doing pretty much that to my 4dr, got OME springs from arbusa, already had some spring spacers, got OME struts, some napa shocks, and going to do a homemade 3" BL. One reason I went this way on the 4dr is that it is going to get a SAS in a year or so, and then the struts and springs can be sold (or maybe used on my 2dr).
The calmini approach has it's own pluses and minuses ... it's just a choice of what you want, what you have, and what you plan to do.
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Hi Twan013,
Well here goes.
. The front did feel a little firmer than stock though - I suspect it was the angle of the arms: / \ = less leverage :-\, but it was still better than my Sammy ;)
The Calmini kit adresses ALL the issues: Camber, castor, rear "A" arm angles, front CV angles with a
check this :http://www.specprod.com/PROD_DIR/C_PROD_TRUCK_SEARCH_DYN.cfm?cmd=Cam&cmd2=81250&cmd3=58%2C%2061
You can use it to fix the both positive and negative camber angle.
about Calmini , did anyone had Calmini coil springs that one of them after less then a year sink without any special reasone ( the car is always stands straight and 95% of the driving was on-road ) ?
the best thing about calmini lift - is that they lower the front axle position .
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 I'm looking for a lift with a somewhat comfortable ride and decent flex... i don't want SAS because it is too much money, and solid axles seem more for rockcrawling... my interest is more in the high speed backwoods and mud trails.. so i want SOME flex, but not pure flex.. this is a daily driver... so obviously, i don't want a major lift.. 3 inches absolute max... another thing, as long as it doesn't involve welding/cutting, i'm willing to do it... i don't want to pay someone else to do it, and i don't know how to weld...ÂÂ
Having had both kits on my vehicle and given your requirements mentioned above I would say go with the RRO and you will be happy but I would suggest getting some camber bolts too as the Old Man Emu kit was not desigened to correct the alignment when used with additional coil spacers.
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weird... i make a big fuss about never seeing RRO info, and the next time i sign on, they've got a full write up on it! SnoFalls, is it cheaper to piece everything together like you did (or are doing)? i know i've done the math just from rro's prices, and if you get the springs, struts, and shocks, and the BL and the spacers all separately, it costs a lot more... but maybe piecing this from there, and that from here, and building your own BL would cut the prices down... but then it would be easier just to order the whole thing together, so you know you get everything at the same time, and you only have to pay for it once.... everything's a tradeoff i guess...
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ok, i don't know the price for OME stuff from ARB or anywhere else... but here's my figurings after all the math i can think of... i tried to find all the cheapest stuff (body lifts, coil spacers)... Wheeler's coil spacers are 78 dollars for all 4 spacers.... Sky's body lift is 120... (couldn't get prices for ARB's OME stuff, or the BDS body lift)... but with the RRO's OME kit, and the spacers and BL separately, it runs over 800 dollars... so i'd rather just buy the complete rocksteady... save a lot of money, ya know?
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ok, i don't know the price for OME stuff from ARB or anywhere else... but here's my figurings after all the math i can think of... i tried to find all the cheapest stuff (body lifts, coil spacers)... Wheeler's coil spacers are 78 dollars for all 4 spacers.... Sky's body lift is 120... (couldn't get prices for ARB's OME stuff, or the BDS body lift)... but with the RRO's OME kit, and the spacers and BL separately, it runs over 800 dollars... so i'd rather just buy the complete rocksteady... save a lot of money, ya know?
OME coils are $66 a piece.
Diggers coil spacers are $50 a set (http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=5274.0). I drilled out some 1.75" spacers I got off ebay at $60 for all 4.
I think DIY bodylifts are the way to go. I got the RRO BL (sky is exact same), and don't like that the blocks are so small (they just compress into the isolator busings), the capture bolts don't tighten well, and I still needed some extra bits (PS hoses, and extra blocks for the rear bed). Also, if you wanna relocate the bumber, you'll need to fab that too (I didn't).
Struts ... The OME ones are nice, but spendy. If the stock ones are ok, consider getting a strut spacers (or just flip the strut mount). Can always add the OME struts later if you wish.
Shocks are $15 or so at the auto parts store. The OME (or doetsh) are probably better for high speed dampening, but I've got no real complaints about my cheapies for low speed trail twistin.
I like to tinker with the suspension to tune it to my desires. Others would rather have someone else figure out a good system (bt they make decisions like planning for 100+ lbs at the bumber, or ...)
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I was planning on going with the Calmini 3" lift, is that one any good?
Also whoever posted the link to the camber correction bolts, where do you actually buy them from? The link doesnt have any ordering information.
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http://www.spcperformance.com/PerfPartSect/PerfPart_EZCam.html
I emailed them and asked for a local supplier - but why not try a Googlewack first
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good info snofalls... i guess i'm the type to let someone pick out a good setup for me... or at least point me in the right direction to the cheap stuff... but i have a few questions... i didn't think you could use the original shocks and struts on a lifted vehicle... also, about body lifts... i'm afraid that if i use a the square tubing, that it will eventually crush or something... also, i've heard of people doing a body lift, and the mounts coming up through the floorboard and screwing everything up... but this is like "i know a guy that knows a guy that knows a guy that's related to a hermaphrodite's best friend whose sister was born in the same hospital as president lincoln" kinda thing... but i'm still nervous about the whole crushing part, and the fact that it barely helps get the frame and stuff off of the ground... plus, the gap that shows up... aren't there kits out there that use a kind of hockey puck type thing? that is solid? i think BDS that's what BDS uses...
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The stock struts and shocks are the limiters for the downtravel. I think stock, they allow for about 4" of downtravel. When you lift the suspension 2", you're now left with only 2" of downtravel. So, getting 2" longer shocks on the rear (OME doetsch, crown vic, ...), stop that from being the limit on the rear drop. Up front, you can ... get the OME struts (45mm longer?), or do the "strut mount flip" (about 30mm?), get a "strut mount spacer", or a combination.
If you search around, you'll see the various ways people have dealt with "doing the drop".
As for the BL ... I did the RRO 2" on my 2dr, and I got it cause I figured it be easier than a homemade, and wasn't too spendy. Let's just say, I won't do it again. It's working fine, just not to my liking (the blocks are just too small IMO). I think 3x3 box with a 3/16 wall would be plenty strong (I might just get some at 1/4" wall).
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I don't think anyone with a suzuki has had a body lift that cause them major problems like ripping mounts or stuff like that.
box tubing does work very well. it spreads out the load a little better, The only thing that needs to be done correctly with open blocks is that the nuts and bolts be checked semi-regular since there's a space between them all. I ran a 3" square tube body lift for a few years in my old 2-door and never had a problem with the stuff moving. Now the steering shaft on the other hand.... it overextended one day and the shaft almost fell right out. Had to borrow some nuts from other engine parts to put the rubber spacer thingy back in. I swore i wouldn't do a 3" BL again, and i'm sticking to it.
RRO and sky really need to make their lift blocks the same diameter as the original rubber mounts. I agree strongly with Snofalls about the blocks squishing into the rubbers. It also gives them more opportunity to wear out that rubber and cause the bolts to become looser. Not very good designing in my opinion. Those plastic blocks are solid, just not wide enough.
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How are the calmini body lifts? Lots of people have them, so I know some of you know if they have those same problems or not.
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ok, so if i get the square tubing, i would need to get like a 2x3 wouldn't I? and cut each piece 3 inches long? and about how much would i save by doing a home-made BL? I guess i could get someone with the right kind of saw to cut the blocks up... and if someone has a good table saw that cuts metal, they SHOULD have a good drill press, right? also, how wide are the blocks from RRO and sky? just for comparison reasons..... that should about do it for now, as far as questions go.. ...................wait a minute... i was just doing some figuring, and realized that the 2.5" lift (with the coil spacers) is actually cheaper than the pure OME 1.5".... 2.5" = $649..... 1.5 = $667... unless its a typo i wonder if anyone else had noticed that
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I don't think anyone with a suzuki has had a body lift that cause them major problems like ripping mounts or stuff like that.ÂÂ
I think maybe this stems from the pics that were posted of a Track/Kick that had taken a knock and the mounts had all pulled out or twisted.
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I was planning on going with the Calmini 3" lift, is that one any good?
Unless you are planning on adding bumpers and other add ons I would go with the Calmini 2 inch kit. Iff you need more height add a body lift. The 3 inch will ride stiff and closer to 4= inches with out the extra gear.
Mike
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We recently installed and just reviewed the Rocky Road Rock Steady kit. Look for it on the home page!
-Eric