ZUKIWORLD Online | Suzuki 4x4 Editorial and Forum

ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: zaggy on October 25, 2005, 07:57:00 AM

Title: Is it time for another engine project?(The choice is made)
Post by: zaggy on October 25, 2005, 07:57:00 AM
Seeing as my life is attempting to get back to normal....

     And I'm testing interest on performance parts on the "Garage Sale" part of the forum I thought I'd see if it was time for another engine build up project.

It would be etheir a 1600/8valve or a 1600/16 valve...interest?

Zag
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?
Post by: 92Sidekick4x4 on October 25, 2005, 10:22:24 AM
id be interested in the 8 valve one, not to extensive tho,  ;D
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?
Post by: zaggy on October 25, 2005, 11:47:17 AM
Hey 92 Sidekick

     The "Do it yerself engine build" is a good basic guide to a 1600/8 valve so I wouldn't want to do the same thing again.
     If I do an 8 valve it would have to be something real special. Any suggestions?

Zag
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?
Post by: mudfkr on October 25, 2005, 11:56:55 AM
16v, I'd be interested in what gains you can get out of it  ;D
Start a poll zaggy.
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?
Post by: bandit86 on October 25, 2005, 12:05:42 PM
lets do a 8v turbo engine buildup from engine to wiring
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?
Post by: zaggy on October 25, 2005, 12:08:53 PM
Lets get some input, then do a poll.

     If we can get a bunch of input and then use a poll to make the selection that would be great!

Zag
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?
Post by: bandit86 on October 25, 2005, 01:07:35 PM
having a bulletproof bottom end would be awsome, especially since we all want more power and wont gain as much from a rebuild as say bolting on a turbo setup
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?
Post by: DirtDevil on October 25, 2005, 02:29:30 PM
how bout a supercharger, i saw one at lordco the other day for an 8v, wondering how it works
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?
Post by: bandit86 on October 25, 2005, 03:05:36 PM
I prefer turbos, though I guess a supercharger would be better in case it gets wet.
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?
Post by: explosivo on October 25, 2005, 04:57:25 PM
I agree. Let's get an extensive turbocharger build going! That sounds like fun!
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?
Post by: Suzuki1.8 on October 25, 2005, 06:05:36 PM
hey just my two cents do a turbo 2.0 or 1.8 ;D
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?
Post by: SnoFalls on October 25, 2005, 06:13:28 PM
My vote goes to a swap story ... some trac/kik 89-98 vintage, with a lightweight v6 swap ... zuk v6, mazda v6, or ...

Personally, I can't justify the expense of spending dough on a 1.6 when "I coulda had a v8" (well, ok a v6 ...)

Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?
Post by: Proud2BCDN on October 25, 2005, 06:39:10 PM
Something really wild....two 1.6L to make a 3.2L V8 ;)
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?
Post by: bandit86 on October 25, 2005, 07:08:46 PM
My vote goes to a swap story ... some trac/kik 89-98 vintage, with a lightweight v6 swap ... zuk v6, mazda v6, or ...

Personally, I can't justify the expense of spending dough on a 1.6 when "I coulda had a v8" (well, ok a v6 ...)


thats an engine swap, not an engine build
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?
Post by: Chief on October 25, 2005, 07:33:18 PM
What about a mild build up with aftermarket parts? Cam, heads, header, etc. SOmething that could be done in a couple weekends. Pull the head off, swap in an aftermarket one with a cam in it, header, needed ECU mods, intake mods, etc. something not overly crazy like your last 8v build. SOmething not simple, but doable for the avg joe.  8)
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?
Post by: 92Sidekick4x4 on October 26, 2005, 01:59:59 AM
how bout a supercharger, i saw one at lordco the other day for an 8v, wondering how it works

Trev, u got anymore info on this? price etc.?? brand.....
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?
Post by: 1bigtracker on October 26, 2005, 11:20:23 AM
i say a cheap blower motor, that would rock!

Stu
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?
Post by: Festiva on October 26, 2005, 02:30:43 PM
i vote for rotary swap or a supercharger with clutch setup like on the Mr2's and benz;s.... this way you can turn it on like A/C to save gas.
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?
Post by: Dihnekis on October 26, 2005, 07:21:54 PM
I say either a 1.6 8v turbocharged or supercharged.

Either that or a solid build up to hitting 100hp in a 1.6L 8v.
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?
Post by: zaggy on October 26, 2005, 09:14:58 PM
Dihnekis

     Check out the "Do it yerself engine build" that got us up over 90hp with a fairly stock set up. With some minor tweaks it would get you to 100hp.

Chief
    I didn't think the DIY 1600 was much more than a well built stock motor with pretty minor tweaks...or are you reffering to the one that ended up in the aircraft?

Everyone else...

     Swaps and blowers (turbo and super) seem to be the hot topics....any other suggestions?
Maybe if the budget can take it combining the two...say a 2.0L long block build with a turbo into an 1600/8valve Side kick.....because of the expense that would be a long term project not a quick build ( Thin budget guys).

Zag
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?(Last call for input)
Post by: zaggy on October 27, 2005, 11:38:08 AM
Last call for input.

Zag
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?(Last call for input)
Post by: bandit86 on October 27, 2005, 11:55:39 AM
how bout a 18:1 compressionengine?  at that compression, we could run straight diesel fuel, have amazing torque without the weight.  may need bigger flywheel and stronger starter, but I always wanted a super high compression engine
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?(Last call for input)
Post by: wildgoody on October 27, 2005, 11:57:59 AM
You could go 16:1 and run Methanol  ;D
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?(Last call for input)
Post by: zaggy on October 27, 2005, 12:27:10 PM
Not an outragous idea!

2.0L, Turbo'd on Methanol......gonna have to see what industrial grade metnaol is worth for 45 gallons. I wouldn't need gasline anti freeze after that.

Zag
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?(Last call for input)
Post by: bandit86 on October 27, 2005, 01:27:35 PM
where is your adventourous side?  surely the top end can take 18:1, and the bottom end could with a bit of work.  With the stock ignition and injection inplace, diesel fuel can be used and wont have any problem igniting it.  Think of the possibilities, a high speed diesel engine with all the torque and high rpm capabilities.  If I had a garage and a good engine, I'd do it right now. Actually, I may have to read up on the subject at what compression is ideal, but I'm guesssing it's between 15:1 and 18:1 without having to worry about preignition on diesel.  I know diesel tends to smoke with low compression engines, but there is a sweet spot, I just have to find it.

you may laugh at me now, but I'm sure people laughed the first time they heard propane injected diesel setup, and now it's the cat's meow
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?(Last call for input)
Post by: Rhinoman on October 27, 2005, 01:42:46 PM
1.6ltr with 1.3 DOHC head. From the pics I've seen that head looks like the valves could be a bit shrouded - still makes 100bhp. Open up the combustion chambers a little and rephase the cam to give a bit more bottom end.
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?(Last call for input)
Post by: Agent Orange on October 27, 2005, 02:52:04 PM
i say do a 16v motor. do some porting and polishing, maybe a custom cam grind. see what gains you can get from simple modifications. maybe see if it's possible to even reprogram the ecu to get some gains.
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?(Last call for input)
Post by: cj on October 27, 2005, 03:30:19 PM
Zag,

I think a 1.6 16v with some work would be the way to go as most here will either have an 8v or 16v engine and you've covered some of the 8v but there is next to no knowledge out there on what works with a 16v. Keeping it to what most people have to play with will be more useful. Obviously a decision needs to be made whether it will be a N/A or force fed setup. The build could be as a N/A engine to start with and then go low pressure (5-7psi) turbo or blower later to show a progressive build without the need to tear the engine down to change pistons. You could use a decompression spacer if needed to lower the compression. It may be that you could look at something like a Megasquirt to complement the mods as needed. It would be great to see the effects of things like cylinder head work, intakes, exhaust mods, cams, cam gears, underdrive pulleys, crank scrapers, windage trays, knife edging the crank etc on a 16v engine being quantified in some way. Don't forget the option of resleeving and going to an 78mm bore. Yes, the 1.3 DOHC head could be used but my understanding is that it needs quite a bit of work to get any gains over the 1.6 SOHC head in N/A form althouh it may be better for a Turbo setup.
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?(Last call for input)
Post by: Dihnekis on October 27, 2005, 07:50:02 PM
I vote for blown 1.6L 8v
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?(Last call for input)
Post by: wildgoody on October 27, 2005, 09:24:14 PM
Quote
I may have to read up on the subject at what compression is ideal, but I'm guesssing it's between 15:1 and 18:1 without having to worry about preignition on diesel.

Uhh try 24:1 for good diesel performance, these aluminum
heads can't take that much compression, as well as the shape
is wrong. Diesel heads need almost no CCs and are built as
flat as they can, the pistons are made of cast iron in heavy
diesel engines, I don't know what is being used in the smaller
engines, and the piston shape has a doughnut shape hollow
with a tit in the center, the fuel ignites in the hollow.

If you go lower compression, like 15:1 or even 18:1 you will
need glow plugs to get it started. In short, you need a custom
head  and then the block would probably not hold up.

Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?
Post by: ed oorklep on October 28, 2005, 05:00:19 AM
Dihnekis

Everyone else...

     Swaps and blowers (turbo and super) seem to be the hot topics....any other suggestions?
Maybe if the budget can take it combining the two...say a 2.0L long block build with a turbo into an 1600/8valve Side kick.....because of the expense that would be a long term project not a quick build ( Thin budget guys).

Zag

yes yes yes  ;D I wanna see this one  ;) if u update once a week we have plenty to read  ;)

Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?(Last call for input)
Post by: takai on October 28, 2005, 03:38:59 PM
I vote for the 16v. Start of simple, with a little pre-planning you can add on to it later and show thechange in performance with the different components, turbo, etc.
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?(Last call for input)
Post by: bandit86 on October 29, 2005, 05:47:50 PM
Quote
I may have to read up on the subject at what compression is ideal, but I'm guesssing it's between 15:1 and 18:1 without having to worry about preignition on diesel.

Uhh try 24:1 for good diesel performance, these aluminum
heads can't take that much compression, as well as the shape
is wrong. Diesel heads need almost no CCs and are built as
flat as they can, the pistons are made of cast iron in heavy
diesel engines, I don't know what is being used in the smaller
engines, and the piston shape has a doughnut shape hollow
with a tit in the center, the fuel ignites in the hollow.

If you go lower compression, like 15:1 or even 18:1 you will
need glow plugs to get it started. In short, you need a custom
head  and then the block would probably not hold up.



no no, not a full diesel, still run spark plugs,  just a very high compression engine.  I know if you have diesel fuel in the cylinder (port intake) it'll ignite before tdc and wont work, hence the lower compression and plugs.  maybe mix gas and diesel 25-75%
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?(Last call for input)
Post by: zaggy on October 31, 2005, 08:50:10 AM
Well everybody got out voted by fate

     The next engine is going to be a 1600/16valve, the reason is simple.

My wifes Sidekick has decided to start smoking, I know it's valve seals and I was planning on living with it till the 2.0L was built. But over the weekend it has decided to make some lifter noise up top.

Needless to say, Happy wife-Happy life. It's gonna get pulled and replaced.

The 2.0L is no where near ready to be swapped so I am on the hunt for a decent 1600/16valve core to overhaul while the current one is good enough for in City use.

The plan is....
- Top line overhaul, including rebore.
- Redo the head, 3 angle grind, back cutting seats and valves, light polishing'
- Progressive grind camshaft
- Windage tray mods and crank scraper
- Header, probly Calmini
- 20% speed reduction crank pulley
- Open up the air intake system, add a cold air induction

While I collect parts I'm going to be looking into creating a chip for it and some other goodies.

I will keep you guys posted as I get close to doing the work.

Zag

Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?(Last call for input)
Post by: cj on October 31, 2005, 10:40:03 AM
Well everybody got out voted by fate

     The next engine is going to be a 1600/16valve, the reason is simple.

My wifes Sidekick has decided to start smoking, I know it's valve seals and I was planning on living with it till the 2.0L was built. But over the weekend it has decided to make some lifter noise up top.

Needless to say, Happy wife-Happy life. It's gonna get pulled and replaced.

The 2.0L is no where near ready to be swapped so I am on the hunt for a decent 1600/16valve core to overhaul while the current one is good enough for in City use.

The plan is....
- Top line overhaul, including rebore.
- Redo the head, 3 angle grind, back cutting seats and valves, light polishing'
- Progressive grind camshaft
- Windage tray mods and crank scraper
- Header, probly Calmini
- 20% speed reduction crank pulley
- Open up the air intake system, add a cold air induction

While I collect parts I'm going to be looking into creating a chip for it and some other goodies.

I will keep you guys posted as I get close to doing the work.

Zag



Sounds good Zag. When you do the cam may I suggest that you have material added before grinding the profile so that the base circle isn't reduced. I know it will cost a little more but broken rockers are a pain in the %|removethispart|@# and this is what will happen with a smaller base circle.
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?(The choice is made)
Post by: Agent Orange on October 31, 2005, 11:31:22 AM
sweet, something to look forward to. i was hoping you'd decide on the 16v. if you need a place to grind you cam, you can contact a place in bc called colt cams.

go zag  :)
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?(The choice is made)
Post by: DirtDevil on November 01, 2005, 01:58:49 PM
what about a 1.3L 16V build up? those motors come stock with alot of power, bet you could make a whole lot more too, they sure rev nice n high ;D... friend of mine has a stock 1.3 twin cam in his sami with toy axles n 36" tsl's, it hauls along on the hyway prety damn good... plus the rev limeter is sweet aswell :P
Title: Re: Is it time for another engine project?(The choice is made)
Post by: zaggy on November 02, 2005, 10:17:49 AM
Hi

     The 1300/16v make power up way to high for me. The other part of the deal is that the 1.6/16v actually flows almost as well as the 1.3/DOHC 16v. So by doing a little massaging I can end up with the 1.3/DOHC 16v hp, more torque and all at a lower rpm. Cheaper.

Zag