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ZUKIWORLD Discussion Forum => Suzuki 4x4 Forum => Topic started by: 89kick on December 18, 2005, 09:09:05 PM

Title: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: 89kick on December 18, 2005, 09:09:05 PM: Okay here are my two options i am looking at for a near future engine swap.

Chevy 4.3L Vortec stats
190-HP
220-ft/lbs or torque

GM 3.8L (AKA 3800) supercharged.
220-260 HP (Depending on what series i get 1-3)
280FT/LBS of torque

Okay i know ther eis the issue about wieght and frankly i'm just looking for pure RAW power that when i open it up will scare the living daylights out of all the little rice rockets in town. Anyways i'm curious which ones you guys would suggest or if there are any other engines. (Sidenote no 4cyl or Ford engines, i'm doing the engine swap to make the engine compartment look full and i don't want hefty repair bills every few months from teh motor taking a beating) The 3800 series III s/c is currently what is being put in the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP, Chevy Impala SS and several other GM vehicles. NOTE IT COMES STOCK WITH THE BLOWER! So i can pick up an already blown 3.8L for roughly the same price. The 4.3L has the same bolt pattern as a 350 small block, as well as the smae BORE and STROKE so it would be cheap/easy to find. Anyways lemme know what you guys think.
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: Proud2BCDN on December 18, 2005, 09:13:07 PM: I would go with the 4.3...not to hard to get one over 300hp...without a blower.
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: Dihnekis on December 18, 2005, 09:53:49 PM: Careful, with 200hp on the stock trackick axles you will probably be snapping shafts all day. I dont know from experience though, let zaggy or someone come in and set me straight.
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: Proud2BCDN on December 19, 2005, 08:10:51 AM: There's no question that a stock 4.3 or 3.8 will break parts in a stock Zuk drivetrain...my guess is that 89kick is either planning on upgrading the drivetrain as well or is planning to spend a lot of time under his truck ;)
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: zaggy on December 19, 2005, 08:19:17 AM: Morning guys

I don't need to set anyone straight, I think that combo will shatter drive line parts.
It's not the hp it's the torque...the driveline was not designed for that kind of twisting power.

In spite of my preference for IFS, this is one place that going SAS makes sense as I don't know if you could beef up Suzuki stuff enough to take that kind of torque.

Zag
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: ppltrak on December 19, 2005, 08:45:44 AM: Go with the 3.8 its smaller and makes more beans pluss it's lighter. Just my .02
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: 89kick on December 19, 2005, 10:38:19 AM: I would be switching over to a chevy tranny and transfercase simply for durability sakes, and the axels would probably get switched out to something a little stronger. The trick to it would be finding an axel that i could just swap under the rear so i wouldn't sacrafice my lift. This is all under planning for the drive train. The trick is whether or not to put in the blown 3.8 or the 4.3 as the 4.3L has over double the HP and Torque and the blown 3.8 has a little over double the HP and roughly 3x the torque, over my 1.6L8-valve. Also i do plan on upgradign the front CV axels to handle the stress.
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: derekj on December 19, 2005, 10:04:43 PM: the 4.3 would be an easier swap - you might have a hard time finding a tranny to match up with the 3.8 as it was only in front wheel drive cars.

derek
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: rockrat on December 19, 2005, 10:25:37 PM: I vote 4.3, 1) because I have already done the swap and love it.. 2 yrs ago if someone suggested to do it I would have shook my head and asked why.. Now I ask why I did not do it sooner. The only way I would do the 3.8 is if you could get it cheaper..
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: 89kick on December 19, 2005, 10:27:11 PM: hmm actually the 3.8 tranny i have a cure for, already have several trannys in mind for that one. My dad is the one who is pushing the blown 3.8L hes been a mechanic for over 40 years so if he says the blown 3.8L will work in it i trust in his knowledge, but the decision is still mine what engine of the two. As far as upgrading the Drivetrain i'm keeping my IFS life is too good with it. I can find ways to beef it up and beef it up right...
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: explosivo on December 21, 2005, 05:30:20 AM: I'm in the middle of a 4.3L 'swap'. You'll have to do the 3.8. Sorry :P
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: 89kick on December 21, 2005, 08:14:50 AM: just a question to those of you who have done these engine swaps, have any of you done them in the Sidekick or just the Sammi? Because i have seen kits from every zuk parts house online to do 4.3L conversians to a sammi but absolutly none for the Kick.
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: truckasaurus44 on December 21, 2005, 09:53:18 AM: The 4.3L would be alot easier to find a trans for (All blazer gear would be the most common donor). You could try to find a 2wd s-10/blazer tranny and put a sammy t-case behind it for easy gearing options too.

I believe the 3.8L could be used with a trans out of an older buick v6 powered CJ but otherwise i have no idea what would work.

As for the drivetrain, you will want to replace the aluminum front diff along with the cv shafts. I'de look into swapping an entire toyota front diff and cv's into the front. A toyota v6 rear axle or ford 9inch would be a solid swap for the rear.
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: 89kick on December 21, 2005, 12:35:08 PM: I've been looking actually at getting the new axles from a S-10 just getting an entire donor vehicle and just gutting it for parts, or possibly finding a wrecked buick to rip the harness/computer/engine out of
like i said earlier though, the question isn't about ease of finding parts its about what engine would be the best to put in regardless of difficulty. In other words would the Blown 3.8L be too much or enougth that any other v-6 kick is going to go running for the hills when i fire it up...
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: explosivo on December 21, 2005, 04:15:49 PM: Quote from: 89kick on December 21, 2005, 08:14:50 AM
just a question to those of you who have done these engine swaps, have any of you done them in the Sidekick or just the Sammi? Because i have seen kits from every zuk parts house online to do 4.3L conversians to a sammi but absolutly none for the Kick.
I'm doing my swap into a Tracker, but I'm not using any kits.

4.3L TBI to SM465 to NP205 to D44's out of a Scout II.

If your bent on keeping IFS, I would recommend using Toyota stuff over S-10 stuff.
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: Chief on December 21, 2005, 07:13:59 PM: Quote from: explosivo on December 21, 2005, 04:15:49 PM
D44's out of a Scout II.

I got a set if you want em.... 8) Cheap too, I've been wantin to get rid of em!
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: 89kick on December 21, 2005, 07:24:52 PM: depends on where ya live... shipping can make cheap into more expensive...
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: prairie_dog on December 21, 2005, 07:47:48 PM: Chev made a supercharged 4.3 for the S-10 in the early to mid 90's it was called

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!A CYCLONE OR A TYPHOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That would be way to cool
Steve :) :)
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: prairie_dog on December 21, 2005, 07:52:54 PM: Oh ya I forgot, they were all wheel drive to, fast enough to out run a corvette on a tight course (read it in a mag a few years back) probably hard to find but would be fun

Steve :)
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: 89kick on December 21, 2005, 09:23:05 PM: yeah i don't think i'll be putting a blown 4.3L in that would just break to much stuff... probably start snapping an upgraded yoda drivetrain. Nice thought though.
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: Dihnekis on December 21, 2005, 09:28:20 PM: Yeah, those Typhoons or whatever made close to 300hp stock.

And that 4.3/Np205/D44s sounds kick ass.

One day...
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: 89kick on December 21, 2005, 09:31:22 PM: heh a blown 3.8 series III will knock a 4.3L down for the count :) as far as torque ad speed. So with the new axels and and tranny/transfercase i should eat any 4.3L kick for lunch :) as long as i don't snap axles which is kinda why i wanted your guys opinions on the two motors.
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: wildgoody on December 21, 2005, 09:32:19 PM: Uhh No, not quite, there was a Typhoon and a Syclone
The Typhoon was an S-10 Blazer, and the Syclone was
an S-10 Pickup, they were TurboCharged, not Blown, and
they beat the Vets in the 1/4 mile, along with most other
cars of the same year.

They were boosted to 15 PSI and had all wheel drive, no
Tcase, tho I thought one worked into a 4X4 would be cool
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: 89kick on December 21, 2005, 09:38:08 PM: good point and unfortuantly i'd rather supercharge than turbo simply because there are a few more pluses to the SuperCharger verse the turbo. So a typhoon is outta the question.

off topic from here. oh for those of you who think turbos are a notch above chargers, a supercharger gives you 100% boost from the time you touch the peddle to the time you let off, and the boost is tottally scalable to the charger via overdriving and underdriving the charger. So they actually provide instant power versus the lagged turbo charging method. Yeah yeah you can push more boost with a turbo and change the amount of boost you push quicker via a turbo but dang Turbo lag sucks off the line when the guy with the supercharger has that 40% power boost off the line and you get it an 1/4 mile later.... anyways thats my little off topic blurb.
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: wildgoody on December 21, 2005, 09:44:51 PM: Well, I get 5 PSI boost in about 15 feet, after which the
boost keeps climbing to a total of 9 PSI, about 4 PSI and
about 40% more output than a supercharger can maintain.

Lag is mostly from mis matched turbos on ricers, because
bigger is better to all ricers.

Each has it's plusses and minuses, you pick which one you
want to deal with, it's a choice, I would have supercharged
if I could of found one, Turbos are all over the place.

Wild
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: 89kick on December 21, 2005, 09:50:58 PM: yeah i agree mismatched turbos are the source to that issue, but finding a small turbo that matches a 1.6L is kinda pain. I know closest thing i found was a turbo from a chrysler 2.2 and that would still generate sufficient lag to me. even though i have a supercharger for a 6cyl that i could underdrive like crazy and make work with the proper amount of adapter plates. Yeah i was originally going to turbo my 1.6L to get my power fix but decided against it after the work involved and price and the inability to push over 4 psi to the engine without damaging it. (D*** 2 bolt main's)
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: wildgoody on December 21, 2005, 09:55:28 PM: 2 bolt main SideKick engines can take/make 200 HP

Try a Turbo from a 1.8L Subaru, or a Mazda 1.6L MX3
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: bus_driver on December 21, 2005, 10:00:00 PM: ok the matter of doing the work and not breaking things you will havve a prob with both, I do agree on the one thing the 3.8 will be lighter and punchier........the 4.3 is bulletproof but only a little bt more than the 3.8......SAS this Ã‚Â one tho cuz both engines will set you back in driveline costs on IFS...I Ã‚Â don't think that there is an upgrade out there that will let you keep the IFS and still tromp on the go pedal unless you are on Ice and just spinning.

the only reason i know is that the was a customer of mine that has Yota with a 3800 s/c and he would snap the front shafts alot.
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: wildgoody on December 21, 2005, 10:03:12 PM: Reduce traction, tires that slip don't break axles/CVs
MTs have less traction on Pavement and rocks than
ATs, so choise wisely and avoid breakage
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: 89kick on December 21, 2005, 10:06:07 PM: i'm curious about that because of the fact that the pontiac GTPs have IFS and hold up to the 3800 s/c so the trick may be to find a heavier duty IFS to put in instead of the yota system. the other plus is i rarely use my 4 wheel drive around here except in mud/snow so thats another factor. Oh right now my 1.6L will chirp a 33 my wild country's displace the wieght in the rear end enough all i do is spin tires in the winter. with lockers i would be breaking shafts left and right i know that much, but i also don'tplan on doing any burnouts with my kick either so...
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: rockrat on December 22, 2005, 09:39:18 PM: Did someone say Blown 4.3 ;D

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/rock4x/Blown%20zuki%20pics/Blownzuki005.jpg)
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: bus_driver on December 22, 2005, 11:22:55 PM: that is sweet looking do you have a pic with the hood closed???

if you can get a civic with a stage 3 drive shaft able to take 700hp then yes you should be able to do IFS but the $700.00 each price tag really takes it out of yah ....this was how much it would have cost me $350 each shaft for my 84 vw jetta since it would be pure custom...now you factor in the shaft angle since I think you do have a suspension lift and I don't know if they would like it. the Yota set up would be far superior than zuki but again the angles and all the other factor and the extra hps.....???
the GTP does have a stronger shaft but it is longer and not much of an angle....the usuall breakage under load is the actual joint not the shaft and under perfect conditions they last but now factor in everything else and only you doing it first then breaking it will tell you....

I think I personally would spend the money on SAS'n it but if you do not off road it much and you are in mud hey you might be ok.....i know the way I drive it would be FUBAR but i still drive like my VW race car....i don't learn very fast.

Try it and let us all know how good and how long it last with either engine you decide.
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: 89kick on December 24, 2005, 12:34:12 AM: well the fact is as long as i don't dump the clutch i shouldn't be snapping anything in the front end however for the rear axle i do think i would need to to a swap to a stronger axle.
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: truckasaurus44 on December 27, 2005, 09:28:22 AM: Also, don't forget that the average gtp doesn't have 33's and 4.62+ gearing...not to mention low range.
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: darnold87 on December 27, 2005, 01:07:43 PM: Most everone on here understands he needs to do a SAS.Ã‚Â :o
Most everyone on here would have stayed w/ the suzuki engine.Ã‚Â Ã‚Â ???
However, he wants to do something different.Ã‚Â :-XÃ‚Â Ã‚Â Let's let it be and see how it turns out.Ã‚Â ;) Then we can have a trip up to trask or brown's and really see how it works.Ã‚Â 8)
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: 89kick on December 27, 2005, 11:29:13 PM: not like there are shortcoming to trying to get a 1.6 8 valve to put out 1/2 the power of the blown 3.8L such as severly reduced engine life, in the event of engine failure (This is my daily driver) much harder to fix given a suped up 1.6L doesn't have a stock repacment. A SAS isn't really to feasable to do for it as the IFS gives it a slightly better ride and a new heavier engien will correct my camber issues. Also a SAS would mean i would have to ditch my expensive Calmini Lift... and i'm not looking forward to wasting that kinda money doing a SAS swap. the other side note is I don't do serious rock crawling in it, just a little innocent playing in the mud occasionally for the most part its a highway cruiser and does pretty good at it. So a s-10 front diff and CVs would handle the power fine. Not to mention they are a lot easier to come by versus the Yota stuff. ( I live in Chevy Country they are cheap to come by). The trick Also outside of your obvious statements i've heard about the ability to find new parts for a 4.3 over the 3.8. is which one hasn't been done and which one would make it a unique ride. So far i have yet to hear of a Kick of a 4.3L conversian done i've heard of Sammys with 4.3L even 350 small blocks. Thats the real question wouldn't a blown 3.8L kick standout among the crowd? You guys forget that as long as i don't dump the clutch the Zuki axels will hold... as long as i don't try to show off they will hold the power, the problem is i do i want to be able to show off a little bit and thats where the gearing with the 33's kinda eats the zuki drive apart. I'm not tottaly nieve but at the same time i also don't want to hack my zuki apart trying to change the axle my cousin did it to his, when he put a 350 in his sammy. His current status on that is a Yota frame chopped and shortened to fit the sammy body, and 2 1/2ton military axles hooked to hsi 39's to keep the power from snapping the axles.. He has the super heavy duty yota axles and was snapping the pinions in them every 3 weeks. I don't want to be in that situation where i do a SAS swap and because it holds the power fine start breakign stuff and end up with a zuk with 1 ton axels under it.

Heh sorry for the rant, i just feel like it got a little off the original topic which would be "Whats cooler the blown 3.8L or the 4.3L swap"and turned into, "I think this kids nuts trying to put that in there and keep a IFS and the only way to do a V6 swap is to do a SAS"
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: darnold87 on December 27, 2005, 11:37:00 PM: It would make more sense in my opinion to have your fast little ricer honda/toyota for daily driving and then your semi-modified sidekick for playing around in. However, I understand you want to stand out and have something original. All I was saying is do it, build it (with on of those engines you have in mind), and lets go wheelin'. happy-happy. Good luck with it. Keep us posted w/ pics. :)
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: 89kick on December 28, 2005, 12:25:22 AM: I intend to when the actual fab start we are going to use a spare frame we have and build all the mounts for the 3.8 in it and do the whole swap that way. That way i can also do the axle swap under the spare frame and just do the actual conversian faster. When i do it i'llstart a full Build thread with lots of pictures detailing the mounts (No actual pics of the mounts) heh if this works out good there may be some intrest in it. after all it would be the most power packed swap for a kick i've heard of.
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: jzap on December 31, 2005, 10:42:01 AM: OK, here I go again... Back in the early 60's GM made a small aluminum V8 (215 CID that's like about 3.6 L) that they put in the Buick Skylark... I always thought that would be a good candidate for a swap into a Suzuki...
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: Proud2BCDN on December 31, 2005, 12:14:03 PM: Quote from: jzap on December 31, 2005, 10:42:01 AM
OK, here I go again... Back in the early 60's GM made a small aluminum V8 (215 CID that's like about 3.6 L) that they put in the Buick Skylark... I always thought that would be a good candidate for a swap into a Suzuki...

I agree...GM should have kept the rights to that engine....imagine how it would have done in the Vega instead of that POS 4cyl they had in there...but those lil V8 engines are getting very hard to find now.

As for 89Kick's dilema...cool factor = 3.8, even cooler would be a 5.7 Vortec with 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton front and rear ends...no problem doing 4 wheel smoky burnouts with that combo ;)
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: sergi on December 31, 2005, 12:43:03 PM: Didn't the rights to the v8 aluminium engines go to rover? The ones they used in Range Rovers and stuff?

Interesting thread ;)
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: Proud2BCDN on December 31, 2005, 02:50:33 PM: Quote from: sergi on December 31, 2005, 12:43:03 PM
Didn't the rights to the v8 aluminium engines go to rover? The ones they used in Range Rovers and stuff?

Interesting thread ;)

Yep...and they're still using that engine
Title: Re: Blown 3.8 or the Good ole 4.3L vortec
Post by: 89kick on December 31, 2005, 04:40:48 PM: heh i've seen that combo done only my cousin had 40's remember those super heavy duty axles i was talking about the ones that are stronger than a 3/4 ton, he snapped pinion gears in them left and right, the axles held just everythign in the diff went to hell. Nice thought though one problem to the 350 combo is where in the heck do i put the radiator? because a 5.7 (350) takes up THE ENTIRE engine compartment.... I agree i think the blown 3.8L would be the cooler combo especially if i get a newer SFI 3800 so the blower would be under the hood. Talk about a sleeper.... not to mention it would be able to get vertical without the flooding and stalling of that nice Blown 4.3L i saw up the page ;) Heh i guess the next question is what kinda hood scoop? because i have a feeling i'm going to need just a little more clearance up top... Any pictures or ideas would be welcome... Oh as a side note what blower are you guys using on that 4.3L because i found a 651 blower in my shop which may work out for a 4.3l.....