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Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?

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95XL7

Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2003, 02:12:28 AM »
Quote
The 4 Door brakes are vented, and yes they work on a
2 door, bigger calipers work to slow much better, they
would also work with the solid rotors, but why use solid
when vented are out there.


I know their better,what i'm trying to say is What parts are needed off the 4 door to make them work on the 2 door?

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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2003, 02:44:23 AM »
Ahh ... I though Ohh nevermind  :-[

Just get it all, backing plates are optional,
you need
1: The brackets that bolt to the knuckle
2: The Calipers
3: The Rotors
4: The pads if they are good

Save all the hardware just in case, and a spare brake
line or two would not be a bad thing, I tweeked my
backing plates, just took a little bend, for a total bolt
on change, no tweeking, get the plates too, I swapped
the brakes in about 1 hour, including bleeding the whole
system. best $40 I spent on the zuke in a long time.
:)
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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2003, 02:57:11 AM »
Z3bra, I had one line made for the drivers side,
nobody wanted to do it if you said it was for street
use. Finally a guy at an aviation shop did it, cost
me $35, about half of the cost of Factory Rubber
ones.

Track/Kicks have 3 lines to replace.
I had this one made 3" longer, too much as it
got rubbed and I blew it out last year, on a hill
out at TDS, good thing there was a place to land
and not a cliff, I'd be zukie pancake filling  :(
Real Trucks Are Built, Not Bought,
And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.  

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

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Offline Z3bra

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2003, 05:12:43 AM »
Actually after looking into it a bit more, the best fittings if you're not concerned about them being DOT legal are the Earl's Speed Seal fittings coupled with Earl's Speed-Flex teflon lines.  

Nothing required in the way of a hydraulic crimper for those.  Just a vice and some wrenches and a 25 dollar tool to separate the braid from the teflon that Earls sells. Buy the stuff bulk and make em yourself folks.   Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to get em pressure tested first too though.  The nice thing with the fittings I mentioned is that they're reusable so a field repair is possible and relatively easy if you bring some spare -3 line and the other tools. (Doable without a vice but easier with one).  

Sounds like you forgot the paramount rule of braided stainless lines Wildgoody.  That's to inspect them often for chafing/fraying/rubbing.  When you install them make sure they're routed properly and securly mounted with an adel type clamp to keep em out of harm's way.  There's a couple other ways to help slow down problems with them, either sleeve them with pvc when you're building them or get some of the spiral wrap wire looming stuff and wrap em with that.  It's not as pretty as clear pvc, but it does the trick.  There's plenty of military helicpters flying around that wrap lines just like that for stuff like flight control systems.  On a helicopter it's pretty much a guaranteed crash if you lose hydraulic power to the actuators. (except on the little ones that don't use hydraulic flight controls like the OH-58 and the OH-6 of course)

I was thinking there's more than just 3 flex lines though, there's 2 short ones down by the frame rail behind the passenger side on mine by a valve body. as well as the 2 main ones up front and the rear one.  Probably could live without replacing those but if you're trying to get rid of all the spongy rubber crap those two would need to go as well.  

Anyway the Earl's hose is like 50 bucks for a 20' section from Summit Racing the straight steel fittings are about 6 bucks each or about 16 bucks each if you go for actual stainless fittings.  Some of the fancier shaped fittings are more than 6 bucks but probably top out at around 16 as well.  Figure about 150 total for the fittings worst case if they were all 16 bucks and you did all 5 pieces, 50 for the hose, and 25 for the flaring tool.  Not the cheapest but unlike going with a premade set with the swaged on fittings,  once you buy these  fittings you'll be able to reuse them again and again. Plus if you got the 20' piece of hose that's probably enough for 4-5 sets.  Not really so bad compared to a premade set when you look at it that way even though it is a bit more up front.    The downside is that because the fittings aren't permanently crimped on they don't meet DOT requirements.  It's pretty stupid considering the amount of critical lines on aircraft that don't use swaged on fittings and it's not an issue there.  The real stupidity of the DOT requirements is that the swaged on fittings are typically the point of failure as the point where the swaged on ferrule ends and the braiding is exposed is where breaks are most likely to happen.

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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2003, 08:11:39 AM »
DOT they try ....... too hard, like the H3 head lights
available in Europe long before they were legal here,
I got a set for my VW Bug, way back when, you can't
tell from the outside, but they were not DOT approved.

6V halogen bulbs, ever hear of such a thing ?? That's
why I bought them, bright lights.

Hey Z you work on Aircraft don't you ???

Aviation is my second Love, If I were a rich man de di de di....
O that's a Musical, I've wanted to build an Ultralight Helicopter
for years now, it would allow me to get to very remote places and
go prospecting up in the remote mountains where it could take you
a day to get there.  Somday  ::)
Real Trucks Are Built, Not Bought,
And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.  

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2003, 03:28:14 AM »
I used braided on mine, I've used the Earls type fittings a lot on motorcycles before. They can be a bit like having a long file hanging about, they're quite abrasive and will wear through rubber and paint quite easily. If you put a sleeve of heatshrink sleeving over them it stops all that and you can get it in lots of colours (or colors if you're American ;D) too.
2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

OBD1 - Full diagnostics on a PC/Laptop: http://www.rhinopower.org

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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2003, 11:09:19 PM »
Aren't the vented discs wider if so what about issues with minimum disc thicknesses with the solid rotors. Vented sounds better but its just something else to fill with mud and if it doesn't all come out before it sets what about wheel balance?
2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

OBD1 - Full diagnostics on a PC/Laptop: http://www.rhinopower.org

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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2003, 02:13:10 AM »
You got a point with the mud, guess you need to
follow up a mud run with a good deep water crossing
to wash it all out.

I don't think there will be a balance issue, even packed
up with mud.

Yes the vented disks are wider, also the pads are thinner
so you may lose some miles or Km between changes, I
would hope a cooler disk would offset some wear on the pads
but I'm not sure of this. Minimum disk thickness is still an
issue, the spec for vented disks is just thicker than with solid.

James, great ideas for the braided line protection, I used the
split wire loom plastic, but of coarse the line rubbed right where
the seam was, and being covered I never really inspected them
as I thought they were fine being covered up.

I really like the clear tubeing over the SS braid, then I guess you
could put some color co-ordinated heat shrink at the ends to keep
water and dirt/mud out.  Now I got to make some  ;D
Real Trucks Are Built, Not Bought,
And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.  

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

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Offline Z3bra

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2003, 04:49:52 AM »
Wildgoody, I used to work on CH-47 Chinook helicopters when I was in the army, but I got out in 95.

Now I'm just a computer geek, but that's ok it pays better and the working conditions are a lot better anyway.

I thought about going to get my A&P cert after getting out but there's too many old-timers in the industry and with all the defense cutbacks etc it just didn't look real good for job growth anytime soon.

It did make me a bit nitpicky about fasteners etc. and it's amazing the difference in quality on aircraft parts vs the crap they put on cars.

If you download the PDF of the earl's catalog (part 3 of 3 has all the brake related fittings and lines in it).  They do list the -3 size lines for brakes that come pre covered in plastic over the braid.  

Or like Rhinoman suggested a bit of heat shrink or the like works great too.  Or back to my suggestion the spiral wrap wireloom does the trick pretty well and it's easy to put on after the fact whereas the heat shrink has to be put on when you assemble the line generally unless you have the really small straight type fittings in which case you might be able to slip it over them with a liberal application of WD-40 or something.

Gotta agree with ya though, the DOT however well intentioned tries way too hard, gonna probably put some Euro spec 7" round Hella H4 housings on my 240z and then do a true HID conversion that fits in the H4 sockets.  (Not the fruity bluish ones they sell at autozone for 30 bucks, but the real deal Osram type that have the ballast that steps the voltage up to like 35,000 or so.)  Downside is they're about $450 plus.  The cool thing with the true HID lights is that they have loads of light output but actually are easy on the wiring.  Once they get past initially firing up, they use about 1/3 of the actual power that a normal set of halogens do.  Just food for thought.

Somewhat of a tangent on the headlight discussion, but has anyone ever considered making an adapter plate for the trackicks to just use 7" rounds in there? It's kinda bad in that it makes it looks like you're trying to be a Heep, but frankly 7" rounds are a whole lot cheaper to replace than the factory type when the glass inevitably takes a rock and breaks.  I was looking at mine and basically other than putting a small notch at the bottom of the stock lights in the plastic grill they should fit pretty easily.  One big benefit of this switch is that you could do a true HID conversion or at the very least upgrade the bulbs to higher wattage ones.  (Probably would recommend rewiring in that case and using relays so you don't melt the stock harness).  Top that with the fact that the Euro Spec H4 housings have a much better beam pattern than US DOT spec ones anyway.  Like Wildgoody said, they mean well but they try a little too hard on some things.

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Offline Rhinoman

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2003, 07:25:02 AM »
I'm a little lost on the headlight bulb discussion, yeah mine are H4. Curious about the headlight glass though, mine are polycarbonate which is pretty tough, its also great for wading. I drove it on the Sweden Off Road Tour, over there daytime headlights are compulsory, we drove through some deep water, I was OK, most of the Landrovers came out with busted lights - hot glass and water don't mix.
2000 Vitara 1.6, 3+3 Lift, 33"MTs, 5:83s, LWB brakes, Winch, Snorkel, Safari Rack
1986 SJ413K PickUp, 1.6L conversion.

OBD1 - Full diagnostics on a PC/Laptop: http://www.rhinopower.org

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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2003, 10:49:44 AM »
DOH....... Did I write H3 I meant H4, is there an H3 ???
anyhow you knew what I was saying
:-[
Real Trucks Are Built, Not Bought,
And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.  

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

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Offline Z3bra

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2003, 04:15:38 AM »
Not sure but based on the way the hole from a rock hitting it looks on mine,  I think the headlight lenses are glass on the US spec ones.  They haven't started turning the tell-tale yellow that plastic ones do either and that's after 13 years in the Arizona sun. Also, ours don't use H4 bulbs. (6004's maybe? I forget).  Wish they used H4's but the DOT tends to err very much on the side of caution with damn near everything.

The 7" Hella E-code lenses are leaded glass though as I understand it.

I believe there's an H3 bulb spec but I have no clue as to what it is.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2003, 04:16:05 AM by Z3bra »

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Offline wildgoody

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Re: Bigger GV brakes on a Kick?
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2003, 08:56:46 AM »
Our trucklets use a 9004 bulb, but if I could get a Euro
spec headlamp assembly I would use them.

James, you feel like getting into the Grey Market
parts business ???   ;)
Real Trucks Are Built, Not Bought,
And Chrome Don't Get Ya Home.  

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.