Hi guys.

My name is Tracy and I live in Auckland, New Zealand.

I own a 1990 Vitara 1.6l 8v, single-point injection

I have a very odd problem I'm hoping experienced Zuki-heads can help with.

A week back it started running terribly, poor idle, no power, bogging down on takeoff.

Also, there is a rattling noise coming from the plastic cam belt cover area. Not an engine knock, more a plasticy-type rattle.

I got home from church last Sunday (just!) popped the bonnet and the exhaust manifold was glowing hot!.

I checked the timing and it was fine. I checked the O2 sensor and it was within spec values.

I got the crank pulley to TDC and the cam gear mark lined up with the notch on the cam cover backing plate.... a slipped belt had been my first thought.

Checked that the exhaust wasn't blocked also.

I am getting vacumn advance.

New plugs and near-new plug wires.

Popped the spare fuse in and the engine light said everything was fine.

So... I tried playing with the timing...ignoring what the mark said and found that when I advanced it to about 20 deg BTDC it started running well... not perfect but not bogging down at all.

So, what gives??? What has gone wrong that 20 degrees is making it run fine???

Really appreciate input on this as it also stumped my local mechanic who pretty much gave up on it.


Thanks
Tracy

the locating tab on the camshaft may have broken off or the crank pully key may be damaged. when you set it to tdc did you pull the plug and see if the piston was all the way up? start with that and see where it goes.

derek

Hi Derek.

No I admit i didn't check but have been reading on this forum and have come to the tentative conclusion that you are right. That would explain the "out" timing. Will start on this tonight.

Tell me, do I need to remove the radiator to do all this? probably give me more room I suppose.

Thanks
Tracy

the locating tab on the camshaft may have broken off or the crank pully key may be damaged. when you set it to tdc did you pull the plug and see if the piston was all the way up? start with that and see where it goes.

derek

Hi Derek.

No I admit i didn't check but have been reading on this forum and have come to the tentative conclusion that you are right. That would explain the "out" timing. Will start on this tonight.

Tell me, do I need to remove the radiator to do all this? probably give me more room I suppose.

Thanks
Tracy

Quote from: derekj on July 08, 2007, 06:51:23 PM

the locating tab on the camshaft may have broken off or the crank pully key may be damaged. when you set it to tdc did you pull the plug and see if the piston was all the way up? start with that and see where it goes.

derek

Quick question:

Did you recently have the timing belt replaced?

If you discover that the keyway on the crank pulley has become "wallowed", my theory for this is that someone removed the crankshaft bolt that holds the crankshaft timing belt pulley instead of removing the 5 bolts that hold the accessory belt pulley in place to remove the timing belt cover.

If you remove the crankshaft bolt and do not locktite and re-torque it down properly, it can work loose causing the camshaft pulley can beat the woodruff key and the slot it fits in to pieces.

I have seen this particular form of damage three times (one personally with a Vitara-equivalent '93 Sidekick 4-door that I bought for next to nothing) because of this exact problem.

A number of folks on the Internet have claimed to use various methods (welding, J-B Weld epoxy, etc.) to fix this.  Because my Sidekick was otherwise in excellent conditon, I had the engine rebuilt with a remanufactured crankshaft.  It cost a bit but I think it was worth it in my case...

Oh, and removing the fan and shroud will give you enough room to find out what is happening.  If the woodruff key and slot is  loose or broken, then  the next step is radiator removal - if nothing else to give you room to pull the engine.  You can go  a step further and remove the front grille and the top front of the clip and hood latch to give you even more room to work.  Then again, I like taking stuff apart... 

 Quote   If you remove the crankshaft bolt and do not locktite and re-torque it down properly, it can work loose causing the camshaft pulley can beat the woodruff key and the slot it fits in to pieces.   end quote.

What is the correct torque for a 93 16 valve crank?  the book is light on torque I think.

and my notch on my lower pulley was off on mine because the rubber on the harmonic balancer has to drive the pulleys(water pump, alternator,power steering)  unlike an older chevy, etc where the rubber does not do a whole lot,mine is in a samurai so I have the flywheel to time off of but might of been harder to find in a tracker in the stock location and only one timing spot..

So... I tried playing with the timing...ignoring what the mark said and found that when I advanced it to about 20 deg BTDC it started running well... not perfect but not bogging down at all.

So, what gives??? What has gone wrong that 20 degrees is making it run fine???
Thanks
Tracy

Did you disconnect the vacuum advance when you checked the timing? At what RPM are you checking the timing?

Quote from: tracyprier on July 08, 2007, 02:46:41 PM

So... I tried playing with the timing...ignoring what the mark said and found that when I advanced it to about 20 deg BTDC it started running well... not perfect but not bogging down at all.

So, what gives??? What has gone wrong that 20 degrees is making it run fine???
Thanks
Tracy

Did you disconnect the vacuum advance when you checked the timing? At what RPM are you checking the timing?

Hey Rhino:

Did the older Vits have that "ECM disable" connector for tuning up??

On First Generation Sidekick/Trackers in the US, there is a capped, 4-prong  plug near the battery.  You had to jumper two of the pins to defeat the ECM in order to set the idle timing properly...

Did you disconnect the vacuum advance when you checked the timing? At what RPM are you checking the timing?

Hey Rhino:

Did the older Vits have that "ECM disable" connector for tuning up??

On First Generation Sidekick/Trackers in the US, there is a capped, 4-prong  plug near the battery.  You had to jumper two of the pins to defeat the ECM in order to set the idle timing properly...
[/quote]

I believe so but he mentions vacuum advance. From what I understand early Vits in Aus (so NZ too?)had a carb fitted the same as the early UK models. I have a 1.6 with an SJ carb on it, it idles fast because the auto choke isn't coming off properly. With the vacuum advance connected I see around 20degs BTDC - maybe a coincidence.

Hi guys

Thanks for all the input.

It is indeed a chewed out key. Had to bust up the gear to get it off... just as well I have to replace it anyway!.

Just out of interest it is a Japanese import. New Zealand imports used Japanese cars by the ship-load so this is a single point injection job.

It's been a good little truck... except for the ECU (which apparantly are the worlds worst).

Is it true that the 8v engine is originally a Mitsi unit? the ECU is Mitsi and my mech reckoned the engine is Mitsi also.

Thanks again
Tracy

Is it true that the 8v engine is originally a Mitsi unit? the ECU is Mitsi and my mech reckoned the engine is Mitsi also.

No Suzuki make their own engines but buy in a lot of ancillaries including the ECUs.