I'm hoping to rebuild a transmission I have out in my garage when my stupid company gives me 2 days off. I can't decide which kit to get. I've looked at Hawks, petro, calimini, drivetrain, rockyroad, and a few others. I can't decide.

I have the transmission fully disassembled except for the shift mechanisms. Upon inspection, the syncros all look good (or at least to me.) It shifted fine. I had a little gravely noise in 1st to 3rd and the normal whine predominantly in 4th and 5th. All three shafts look good with no grooves. My understanding is that if the shafts are good then the needle bearings are good.

I can't decide whether I need to just get:

1. The basic kit with 6 bearings and the two seals + some sealant.
2. Add the sychro package because you get it cheaper if you buy it in the package.(I think)
3. Add the needle bearings.

I can't decide on the vendor either.

I see kits with all bearings including needle bearings + seals. I see kits with sychros and the 6 basic bearings (non needle)

I can't decide. I also have one other transmission that is just a leaker and a whiner that seemed to shift fine and is sitting on my garage floor. The one in my vehicle now is a whiner but not a leaker. It has something broke that makes a slap sound in 5th hence I don't use 5th.

I'm thinking I could get a full kit with synchros and needles and what ever parts I have left put to one of the other two transmission. I just think the synchros in all three transmissions are good though. Not sure on the needle bearings at all.

Surely someone here has a good idea for which kit I should get.
Sorry for the wordiness but you can read this faster than I typed it.

Any help appreciated.

-Adam

I'd probably try petroworks.  I think they're well organized and nice and friendly.  All of the vendors probably use the same pricing anyway, right?

I don't think so. I think I may pick up the kit with the needles and maybe put the new ones in my transmission and have the used ones from the transmission I'm rebuilding for the next one. I don't know. I could also pick up the syncros just in case. But then I end up with a lot of parts sitting around that I may never use and end up forgetting what they are. I guess I better call a vendor and pick their brains before I go to bed. 12:30 p.m. That's pathetic. :'( :'( :'(

I talked to Gary at Petroworks. He concurred with another vendor that if the needle bearings look good and are all intact + the shaft is not grooved (Mine just has a light rubbing too it not detectable with my fingernail) then my needles should be good as well as the shaft. He also said that since it shifts fine and the sychros look good that I should just reused them and leave all the shift mechanisms in tact. I went ahead and ordered a pair of basic bearing and seal kits so I can rebuild my other whiner and I'll open the one I have on my Sammy now when I swap the rebuild on. Each set was around $80.00 but he assured me they were high quality Japanese bearings so if he was a little expensive, at least his advise was worth a little extra. I didn't want to buy a cheaper kit without knowing whats actually in it and I think I can trust Petroworks. I'll see how it works out hopefully next week- end if I get a week- end. I may even try to post some pics If I can talk one of my boys into taking them as I do the rebuild. I'm looking forward too it. Just hope I have a full week-end so I don't feel too rushed.

-Adam

It sounds like I am too late, but......
I bought a kit off ebay for my sidekick.  I asked, before I bought, just to make sure.....but it came with quality bearings (japan) and synchros, seals, needle bearing for the input shaft.  It was about $20 cheaper than any vendor ($150 shipped).  I also saw kits for samurai's for about $80....can't remember if those came with the synchros though.

   I would go all the way!You are allready into the tranny,so the little bit extra on the money end is worth it.Especially since it could save you from having to pull the tranny and do it later.

I guess this will be an experiment then. I'll see how it goes with just the main bearings. Everything else looks and feels good. Pulling the tranny isn't too bad just a little time consuming. As far as the ebay kits, I don't know the sellers on most that stuff and I would be hesitant to trust their word.

Since one of you guys bought the kit, what was the name on the bearings. and how do you know how quality they are? Maybe I'll pick one up for the heck of it to see.

I just went and looked and all I find is the kits that have the regular bearings and the sychros. They say nothing about the bearing quality but say the kit has "high quality synchros" which tells me the regular bearings must not be since they didn't say "this kit comes with high quality (Japanese?) bearings and high quality synchros" That was the dilemma. It looks like you get more with their kit for the same price but it's hard telling if they aren't just throwing in some Chinese bearings to keep their cost down.

Adam

I guess this will be an experiment then. I'll see how it goes with just the main bearings. Everything else looks and feels good. Pulling the tranny isn't too bad just a little time consuming. As far as the ebay kits, I don't know the sellers on most that stuff and I would be hesitant to trust their word. Since one of you guys bought the kit, what was the name on the bearings. and how do you know how quality they are. Maybe I'll pick one up for the heck of it to see.

Adam

Like most sellers on ebay, you have to go by their feedback rating, and how long they have been a member. 
The bearings that came in mine were Koyo and Nachi (when I asked, they told me they would be Koyo, Nachi, or NTN).  Those are all Japanese made bearings (no china or mexico crap)....I know that a lot of the stock bearings are Koyo and NTN brand.
If you find a kit you are interested in....email them and ask them what brand of bearings are in the kit.....if they tell you one thing and you buy a kit and it ends up being a bunch of cheap, crap, bearings...then you shouldn't have any problem getting your $$$ back.

BTW, the company I got my kit from was Transparts, and the ebay name was acerl.
Here is a link to a kit like I bought....it looks like the price has come up $20, from when I bought it.
http://search.stores.ebay.com/TRANSPARTS-AT-THE-BEST-PRICES_sidekick_W0QQfciZQ2d1QQfclZ4QQfsnZTRANSPARTSQ20ATQ20THEQ20BESTQ20PRICESQQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQftsZ2QQsaselZ8254798QQsofpZ0

Here is a samurai tranny kit from them.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-Samurai-Transmission-Rebuild-Kit-4x4-5spd-Trans_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33733QQihZ019QQitemZ8055702989QQtcZphoto

I was actually looking at buying that kit but since I don't believe I need synchros, and was unsure of the bearing quality, I went the safe route. I don't see that the ebay kit comes with any needle bearings. If they were selling the kit with the needle bearings instead of the synchros, I may have considered it. It's good to know they're putting good basic bearings in there.

Looking at my two transmissions, I'm thinking that all the noise probably was coming from the two bearings at either end of the shafts since I think they probably get the least amount of lubrication. I'm also guessing that if you use the right gear oil and maybe an additive + some deliberate shifting and regular fluid change, that most of the bearings will last indefinitely and the synchros as well. Especially the needle bearings. I could be wrong though. Biggest problem with these transmissions is that they're so small. All that heat in a little case has got to cause some problems. Probably makes the seals leak and before a guy knows it, he lost what little fluid they hold and ruined the bearings.

I am following Mrfuelish's advise and using the Mystic with some Prolong and I'll see how it goes. Hopefully I get to the rebuild this week end.

-Adam

I was actually looking at buying that kit but since I don't believe I need synchros, and was unsure of the bearing quality, I went the safe route. I don't see that the ebay kit comes with any needle bearings. If they were selling the kit with the needle bearings instead of the synchros, I may have considered it. It's good to know they're putting good basic bearings in there.

Looking at my two transmissions, I'm thinking that all the noise probably was coming from the two bearings at either end of the shafts since I think they probably get the least amount of lubrication. I'm also guessing that if you use the right gear oil and maybe an additive + some deliberate shifting and regular fluid change, that most of the bearings will last indefinitely and the synchros as well. Especially the needle bearings. I could be wrong though. Biggest problem with these transmissions is that they're so small. All that heat in a little case has got to cause some problems. Probably makes the seals leak and before a guy knows it, he lost what little fluid they hold and ruined the bearings.

I am following Mrfuelish's advise and using the Mystic with some Prolong and I'll see how it goes. Hopefully I get to the rebuild this week end.

-Adam

When I did my sidekick tranny, the rear bearing on the countershaft was waaaay loose, and the front input shaft bearing had a little more than normal play in it.  My tranny was bad enough that it was growling loudly in all gears except for 4th (4th is direct drive, it doesn't use the countershaft to actually drive the output shaft).
I don't think you will find a rebuild kit that has ALL the needle bearings (unless you specifically order them).  The only needle bearing, I've seen in the kits, is the one between the input shaft and the mainshaft.  I believe it shows it in the samurai kit, it is the one that looks like a round spacer that has ridges around it (they are shooting it standing on end, so it looks odd).
I have heard that the biggest killer of trannys is letting the pilot bearing in the flywheel get dry and start dragging.  It starts dragging and wears on the tip of the input shaft....therefore the input shaft tip is sloppy in the pilot bearing, and allows the shaft to sit crooked, in relation to the input shaft front bearing.  When that happens, it starts wearing on the needle bearing between the input shaft and the mainshaft, then everything just keeps "dominoing" from there.
But I will agree that improper maintenance of the tranny will cause premature wear as well.

What you are saying about the pilot bearing makes perfect sense.  Talking to Hawks and Petroworks about those needle bearings, they felt that they would leave grooves on the shaft and damage the shaft if they were actually worn.   PAUSE....

Midway thru the message, I just talked to Robert at Petroworks and what he said was that the needle bearings will only wear out if you run out of fluid or don't change your fluid. Even if your input and output shaft seals leak, you shouldn't loose enough to effect them. It would have to leak between the cases or you would have to have old dirty fluid or maybe contaminated to wear them out. If you left your plug loose as well. The reason being that they are never under load. They are basically just spacers that are always turning.

I'm kind of regretting not buying the Ebay kit since the one I'm buying doesn't nave the synchros (even though mine are fine and I could have kept my old ones to make a necklace or something)    Then again, acer or what ever the ebay guy's name is doesn't sponsor this site from what I can tell.

I'll be happy just getting my tranny rebuilt and back on the vehicle.

-Adam