This thing has had tons of different hands working on it. THe motor is into a 88.5 samurai bolted to a toyota tranny, t-case and toy's. He's got a header, high rev cam. He upgraded the connecting rods, put in some new heavy springs for the valves.

This is where the trouble started...well it started a long time ago but that is another story. Engines in the rig so far....1.3, 2.8, 3.4, 4.3 and now 1.6(16V).

Somehow the key on the bottom crank sporket came out and go lost. I think it's not possible for this key to fall out but this is the info I got. I gave him a new key and he installed that. When the first key came out it plowed the valves so that is when he put in the cam and valves. Drove it for about 2 days and lost the key again....this time no valve damage. New key again.

He's had this thing to alot of different places. I went to his house because I feel bad for his father...this guy is 41 years old and living off his parents.

I lined up the timing marks with piston #1 at TDC and lined the dist up to #1. It turns over real good a frew turns and then seems to bind up. I know the timing is off but I've tried all the marks. i told him to take the bottom pulley off to
make siure the key is ok and he sz that he did and that it was ok.

The plan is to make sure the key  hasn't done anything it's not supposed to. Which lines am I supposed to use for the timing marks.

Any ideas? Aynone? I'm really getting to the end with this one.

With a 16v you must time the cam to the crank with #4 piston at TDC, I just went through this with mine

anyone know what mark to use on the cam?

 the  key on the crank should be starit up . this will align with the mark on the block casting for the crank .
  crank is timed to #1 piston
 the cam gear has 2 marks  and as was said , is timed to the #4 piston not the #1
 the gear will have 2 key ways  2 marks and 2 lettee "E"'s
 the  mark you want , is the one with the "E"  that is closest to the  outside of the gear , up next to the teeth
NOT!!! the one that s over the "E" thats doen by the  bolt .

One thing, piston #1 and piston #4 are both at TDC at the same time,
just thought I'd point that out.

Ohh, and I know the mark on the crank should point up, while the cam
mark should point down on the 8V engine, you might want to check if
the 16V engine requires the same timing. The only difference would be
the engine timing would be 180* out, meaning the #4 cylinder would fire
from the #1 position on the dizzy

You might put some green lock-tite on that key to keep it put

Wild

 both marks point up on the 16V
  on the back of the  cam  cover backing plate  is a notch .. this is the cam gear alignment mark .
 the only thing you have to be weary of  that someone did not set the cam gear on wrong .
 As was said , bring the #1 up to TDC.
 The crank gear should point up .
 Now check you cam timing . It should be on TDC for the #4 piston  . And the cam marks should be aligned . Check out the link I posted . I shows just what you need to know

One thing, piston #1 and piston #4 are both at TDC at the same time,
just thought I'd point that out.

Ohh, and I know the mark on the crank should point up, while the cam
mark should point down on the 8V engine, you might want to check if
the 16V engine requires the same timing. The only difference would be
the engine timing would be 180* out, meaning the #4 cylinder would fire
from the #1 position on the dizzy

You might put some green lock-tite on that key to keep it put

Wild

While both #1 and #4 come to TDC at the same time, only one of them is on its compression stroke at a time (you can check to see which is on the compression stroke by checking the rocker arms.....the arms will all be "loose" on the cylinder that is on its compression stroke).  You set the distributor by whichever one is on its compression stroke.  Therefore, you can time the engine using either #1 or #4.  If the timing mark on the cam (the timing mark to use is the one that has the raised "dot" on it) is pointing up, then you set the distributor rotor to point to #4 tower, if it is pointing down, then you set the rotor to point to #1 tower.

i was thinking on this last night .
  the only way i can put my mind around the  crank key coming out is if the   key way in the crank gear is so wobbled out  that it will allow the key itself to vibrate out . but then i have to wonder how that could also be , when the crank gear bolt , has a  big head on it  that should even then hold things in place  and not allow the key to slip out ??
 so in other words  the key can get sloppy and let the  timing get all  messed up , but i cant see how the key would fall out .
 could it be that someone replaced the  crank gear bolt with the wrong bolt ?.

I agree.  Something is seriously F'd up.  #1...the key groove in the crank is "dished" and the key is rounded on one side to fit the "dish"...so even if the wrong crank bolt is being used (one without a big head), then the key should still stay in place.  So I am thinking either the crank groove is so worn, or the lower timing gear is so worn the key can just fall out (and the wrong crank bolt is being used).

Yes, the 8V engine also has a notch in the backing plate, but as I pointed out
the firing order, if set from #1 the notch on the cam sprocket points down,
this is why you said use #4 cylinder, getting the same job done just using
a different set of marks and timing cylinder, funny huh

Wild

alot of people have gotten their hands on this and this is the first zuke engine to stop me in my tracks...but unlike all other engines...I never went to the source of the problem. I've got all my tools and heading down on SAt morning. I'm going to look at the famous key and see WTF is going on down there. When he came to see me for a replacement key I told him that it was 100% impossible to throw the key. He thinks the first shop forgot to put the key in there.

only time will tell....and I'll get it figured out...thanks for all the help.

when I did my timing belt I called TT and they answered all my queston AND I put it back together right. What a miracle. just give them a call. As for the key falling out there is either missing pieces, incorrect pieces or broken ones