I have a gremlin's in my sidekick. when driving a few times I have had complete electrical shut down. wait a few seconds and power comes back on its own. almost acts like a relay timer. but the only complete power break is the main fuse by the battery that I know of. is there a complete elect. system relay or could it be in the key switch maybe?

is this a common issue with kicks?

I swapped out columns when I did the motor swap FYI.

There is a main power relay under the dash, you might start there.

Or did you use the stock relay?

The main relay under the dash is for the EFI only - not the complete electrical system.

As far as I know there is no complete electrical system relay, and the key switch does not control the complete electrical system - the vehicle has, so to speak, two electrical systems, one that is hot all the time (the unswitched system), and one that is hot only with the ignition/acc on (the switched system) - and these come togther at the under hood fuse panel - so - if you're having a complete electrical system shutdown, there are a very small number of places it can come from.

The battery itself, the battery connections (both positive & negative), the cable from the battery negative to chassis ground, the cable from the battery positive to the underhood fuse panel, the underhood fuse panel itself, and the main fuse in that panel.

The key factor here is in determining that it is in fact a complete system failure.

About a year back I have a very similar experience with my GV - it started when the wife was driving - the car would buck and the check engine light would flash on and go back out (she reported a yellow light, that came on & went off too quickly for her to read it, and the CEL is the only yellow light on the dashboard).

My intial assumption was that I had an engine or ECU related problem that was causing the engine to misfire & buck, however, later that day - after night fall - I discovered the true problem - the vehicle was losing ALL electrical power for a split second, and the engine would die, but because it's a 5-speed, and was rolling, it would restart as soon as it got power back.

What brought this to my attention was that ALL the vehicle lights and the radio would go dead when it bucked - very easy to see at night, but a lot more difficult to detect during daylight.

I checked the battery & chassis ground connections, all clean & tight, I removed the underhood fuse panel and inspected it, all clean & tight.  No amount of rocking & shaking any of the electical connections with the engine running and the lights on caused as much as a hiccup or a flicker.

At first, I didn't think it was the battery because the engine would crank & start every time - but it was the last thing left on the list - so I changed it - and the problem was gone.

What you have to determine now is if you are losing ALL power, switched power or only power to the EFI system.

Switched power does pass through the ignition switch, the EFI system will have a main relay that may be controlled either directly from the ignition switch or indirectly through the ECU.

On second thoughts - you're only the ECU to drive the fuel pump - or is that a different vehicle?

It's hard to tell with an engine swap how you wired it - so what I've posted above would apply to a standard vehicle.

yea its for the Audikick. and its a complete "lights out". the battery is pretty new (optima) all cables are new,clean and tight. lots of grounds too.
i am using one under dash relay for the fuel pump otherwise no factory EFI wiring used. there is a second relay on the driver side and I am un sure of its purpose.

my thought led to the under hood fuse block but as fordem said no wiggling/shaking can replicate the issue.I will get a assistant to start the rig and I will look for fuse arcing of other "not wright" things i guess.

thanks and any other ideas appreciated.

I swapped out columns when I did the motor swap FYI.
 
Uh, I'd start there.

The main relay under the dash is for the EFI only - not the complete electrical system.

As far as I know there is no complete electrical system relay, and the key switch does not control the complete electrical system - the vehicle has, so to speak, two electrical systems, one that is hot all the time (the unswitched system), and one that is hot only with the ignition/acc on (the switched system) - and these come togther at the under hood fuse panel - so - if you're having a complete electrical system shutdown, there are a very small number of places it can come from.

The battery itself, the battery connections (both positive & negative), the cable from the battery negative to chassis ground, the cable from the battery positive to the underhood fuse panel, the underhood fuse panel itself, and the main fuse in that panel.

The key factor here is in determining that it is in fact a complete system failure.

About a year back I have a very similar experience with my GV - it started when the wife was driving - the car would buck and the check engine light would flash on and go back out (she reported a yellow light, that came on & went off too quickly for her to read it, and the CEL is the only yellow light on the dashboard).

My intial assumption was that I had an engine or ECU related problem that was causing the engine to misfire & buck, however, later that day - after night fall - I discovered the true problem - the vehicle was losing ALL electrical power for a split second, and the engine would die, but because it's a 5-speed, and was rolling, it would restart as soon as it got power back.

What brought this to my attention was that ALL the vehicle lights and the radio would go dead when it bucked - very easy to see at night, but a lot more difficult to detect during daylight.

I checked the battery & chassis ground connections, all clean & tight, I removed the underhood fuse panel and inspected it, all clean & tight.  No amount of rocking & shaking any of the electical connections with the engine running and the lights on caused as much as a hiccup or a flicker.

At first, I didn't think it was the battery because the engine would crank & start every time - but it was the last thing left on the list - so I changed it - and the problem was gone.

What you have to determine now is if you are losing ALL power, switched power or only power to the EFI system.

Switched power does pass through the ignition switch, the EFI system will have a main relay that may be controlled either directly from the ignition switch or indirectly through the ECU.

On second thoughts - you're only the ECU to drive the fuel pump - or is that a different vehicle?

It's hard to tell with an engine swap how you wired it - so what I've posted above would apply to a standard vehicle.

Once a trackick is started, it will run and function fine without any battery connected at all (have done it several times).  Matter of fact, they will start/run/drive without any battery at all....just connect the jumper cables to the battery cables, to start it.  So unless there was something wrong with the battery itself, a battery cable losing connection should not make it lose all power (that is assuming the alternator is working correctly).

Once a trackick is started, it will run and function fine without any battery connected at all (have done it several times).  Matter of fact, they will start/run/drive without any battery at all....just connect the jumper cables to the battery cables, to start it.  So unless there was something wrong with the battery itself, a battery cable losing connection should not make it lose all power (that is assuming the alternator is working correctly).

A couple of points ...

First - the story recounted concerned a GV and not a trackick - not that I expect there to be a whole lot of difference between the two vehicles.  It is a relating of a personal experience with a vehicle behaving in a similar fashion, and the steps I took to resolve it - and like the story says the only thing done to correct the problem was to replace the battery - the alternator that was in the GV then is in the GV now, approximately one year later, the vehicle is driven daily, I've never had the need to jump start it (however I have jump started several other vehicles with it) and I've never hooked up an external charger, so I'm fairly certain the alternator works.  You can believe the story or disbelieve it - it matters not to me - my GV is running quite nicely.

Personally I believe the battery had an intermittent internal short - but even that doesn't matter - I bought a new one, it solved the problem.

Second - disconnecting the battery as you describe, is what is known in the trade as an "alternator dump" and sometimes a "load dump" - it's a good way to destroy an ECU.  I know it can be done, but personally I would neither do it, nor recommend it.

Now - do you have an alternative suggestion - theoretical or otherwise - that can explain the audikick losing all electrical power - I believe it was described as a "lights out"

Quote from: Skyhiranger on May 31, 2011, 08:33:13 PM

Once a trackick is started, it will run and function fine without any battery connected at all (have done it several times).  Matter of fact, they will start/run/drive without any battery at all....just connect the jumper cables to the battery cables, to start it.  So unless there was something wrong with the battery itself, a battery cable losing connection should not make it lose all power (that is assuming the alternator is working correctly).

A couple of points ...

First - the story recounted concerned a GV and not a trackick - not that I expect there to be a whole lot of difference between the two vehicles.  It is a relating of a personal experience with a vehicle behaving in a similar fashion, and the steps I took to resolve it - and like the story says the only thing done to correct the problem was to replace the battery - the alternator that was in the GV then is in the GV now, approximately one year later, the vehicle is driven daily, I've never had the need to jump start it (however I have jump started several other vehicles with it) and I've never hooked up an external charger, so I'm fairly certain the alternator works.  You can believe the story or disbelieve it - it matters not to me - my GV is running quite nicely.

Personally I believe the battery had an intermittent internal short - but even that doesn't matter - I bought a new one, it solved the problem.

Second - disconnecting the battery as you describe, is what is known in the trade as an "alternator dump" and sometimes a "load dump" - it's a good way to destroy an ECU.  I know it can be done, but personally I would neither do it, nor recommend it.

Now - do you have an alternative suggestion - theoretical or otherwise - that can explain the audikick losing all electrical power - I believe it was described as a "lights out"

My, my, kind of touchy tonight aren't we?
I wasn't doubting your story.  If I would have, I would have made it quite clear. 
I was just stating that a trackick will run without any battery at all.  So if a battery cable loses its connection, that will not cause a "lights out" condition.  And I did suggest that a bad battery may cause odd things to happen, as in your experience....so I was actually backing up your theory there.
And I didn't suggest unhooking the battery.  Again, I just stated that a trackick will run without any battery at all....so, IMO, it is a waste of time to worry about the battery cable connections causing the issue.
Faulty battery, wires shorting/grounding out, intermittent wiring connection, MFB issues could all cause odd electrical things to happen.  Then throw into the mix that it has an engine swap with what sounds like a highly modified wiring harness....who knows WTF the problem could be.  But I did suggest something that it likely isn't....so in this situation, that is just as good as a suggestion as to what it might be.

I have a gremlin's in my sidekick. when driving a few times I have had complete electrical shut down. wait a few seconds and power comes back on its own. almost acts like a relay timer. but the only complete power break is the main fuse by the battery that I know of. is there a complete elect. system relay or could it be in the key switch maybe?

is this a common issue with kicks?

I swapped out columns when I did the motor swap FYI.

Every thing is common in a swap.  Works good/runs like crap, Awesome motor/cracked block.

I do not know how you made your connections (I got very creative in my swap), but that is where I would be checking.  If you used crimped connections (change them to soldered w/heat shrink).  Piggy back connections to soldered or use another open connection. 
And recheck any Pin change outs, you can bend or break the holding tab allowing the New Pin to back out.  I have had these create issues in my swap.

I never tied the new system in to the old zuk stuff anywhere but one wire from the fuel pump relay. the complete engine harness is isolated with just a power,ground,keyed on. the power loss is complete and not blowing fuses or anything and is a chassis and engine loss of power which only have one common 12v+ location. I am actually wondering if it is the battery. it only happened I had all accessories running. and the battery albeit newer it has been abused many times with the two engine swaps. it has never done it otherwise.

hate to say it, but if you have 2 completely different electrical systems shutting down and the only common denominator is the battery, then it looks like it's the battery, pretty simple logic, right?

yup.

Fyi, at the first race I had a similar problem. Car would completely shut down, then come back to life a second or 2 later. Here is what I found....


They were hanging on the positive wire at the starter and rocking back and forth. The cutting end would come in contact with the main terminal on the starter and ground everything out. Might just check for a loose wire somewhere again.

BTW they were not my cutters. SABOTAGE!(still won)

Never allow too much time to begin "over thinking", when your brain gets tired just walk away and come back after a big cheeseburger and a milkshake.

also if you have swapped out the stock battery cables with new ones with the steel tips on them, Get some napa gold type with the brass ends on them, they will not rust on the inside and cause the same problem.