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EFI dizzy in 88 1.3

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Offline Joesf

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Re: EFI dizzy in 88 1.3
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2018, 08:50:39 AM »
Never touched one until I bought a samurai. Google can teach me I'm sure.

I know of no one that makes such a kit - the demand would probably be very low - it should however not be a particularly difficult task, assuming you understand how a distributor works.

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Re: EFI dizzy in 88 1.3
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2018, 04:44:31 PM »
I know of no one that makes such a kit - the demand would probably be very low - it should however not be a particularly difficult task, assuming you understand how a distributor works.
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara

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Offline Joesf

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Re: EFI dizzy in 88 1.3
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2018, 01:01:35 PM »
Does anyone make a kit for locking the distributor or will I just have to home brew something.

If all you're looking for is a timing signal for ignition events, the stock distributor should be able to provide that - the igniter switches to ground to charge the coil and then opens circuits to discharge in pretty much the same way as the old breaker points did, minus the arcing and the wear on the heel of the breaker points - two pulses per crankshaft revolution - you will need to remove the vacuum advance and lock the baseplate down and also lock the upper & lower sections of the shaft together to disable the centrifugal advance.

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Re: EFI dizzy in 88 1.3
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2018, 08:04:32 PM »
If all you're looking for is a timing signal for ignition events, the stock distributor should be able to provide that - the igniter switches to ground to charge the coil and then opens circuits to discharge in pretty much the same way as the old breaker points did, minus the arcing and the wear on the heel of the breaker points - two pulses per crankshaft revolution - you will need to remove the vacuum advance and lock the baseplate down and also lock the upper & lower sections of the shaft together to disable the centrifugal advance.
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara

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Offline Joesf

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Re: EFI dizzy in 88 1.3
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2018, 09:54:58 AM »
I've already looked at a striped down intake manifold and it has plenty room at the runners near the head flange. The megasquirt will fire the injectors in pairs 1-4 and 2-3. Like I said I have everything figured out except how to get a signal for ignition control. As soon as I do that I'm set. Any info on that is greatly appreciated.

First I suggest you take a closer look at the intake - US models used a different intake to and carb to the ones we got in the Caribbean, but I don't recall there being a clear space to weld bungs on or run a fuel rail - there were several projecting pieces, starting with the thermostat housing.

Second - maybe the implementations of batch fire you've worked with have fired the injectors in pairs - I've seen Suzuki use one ECU to run both throttle body and multi-point injection on both three & four cylinder engines by simply paralleling all the injectors, and adding a resistor on the TBI versions - that was actually my introduction to fuel injection and it confused the heck out of me because I expected the MPI to be sequential.  I currently have a Suzuki that batch fires all four whilst cranking and then switches to sequential after the engine starts.

I have a vague recollection of working with an after-market engine management system that we ran on a Mazda RX3 that had two sensors in the distributor as a pickup - if I remember correctly we were running four ignition coils, so we would have had to sense TDC somehow - I'll see if I can dig up any details.

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Re: EFI dizzy in 88 1.3
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2018, 02:57:10 AM »
First I suggest you take a closer look at the intake - US models used a different intake to and carb to the ones we got in the Caribbean, but I don't recall there being a clear space to weld bungs on or run a fuel rail - there were several projecting pieces, starting with the thermostat housing.

Second - maybe the implementations of batch fire you've worked with have fired the injectors in pairs - I've seen Suzuki use one ECU to run both throttle body and multi-point injection on both three & four cylinder engines by simply paralleling all the injectors, and adding a resistor on the TBI versions - that was actually my introduction to fuel injection and it confused the heck out of me because I expected the MPI to be sequential.  I currently have a Suzuki that batch fires all four whilst cranking and then switches to sequential after the engine starts.

I have a vague recollection of working with an after-market engine management system that we ran on a Mazda RX3 that had two sensors in the distributor as a pickup - if I remember correctly we were running four ignition coils, so we would have had to sense TDC somehow - I'll see if I can dig up any details.
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara

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Offline Joesf

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Re: EFI dizzy in 88 1.3
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2018, 07:40:05 PM »
I'd put one on each runner. TBI is not something I'm a fan of.  I'm pretty well versed in how each injection method is achieved. This would be my first carb to EFI install but certainly not my first megasquirt install.  I'm not concerned with getting seqential injection. Batch is perfectly fine for this project. If a mpfi existed that would fit my engine I'd certainly use it.  If not I'll weld bungs on and build a fuel rail.

The samurai will be used off-road is the main reason I don't want the external trigger.

Also batch fire would fire the injectors in pairs not all four simultaneously.


More out of curiosity than anything else - if you're planning on running multi-point, where will you put the injectors?  I would think single point (throttle body) injection would be a lot easier, and you could use the intake manifold & throttle body with injector, off of a 1.6 8v Sidekick - although you might have some challenges driving that injector from a megasquirt.

Multi-point injection can be done two ways - batch fire, where all the injectors are fired simultaneously, regardless of which cylinder is on the intake stroke, and sequential fire, where the injectors are fired individually during the intake stroke for the relevant cylinder - I doubt that you could do sequential fire with the stock distributor because all that you'll get from them is a two pulse per revolution (of the crankshaft) signal suitable for timing the ignition events, with no way to determine which cylinder is at TDC.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 07:42:00 PM by Joesf »

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Re: EFI dizzy in 88 1.3
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2018, 03:58:11 PM »
More out of curiosity than anything else - if you're planning on running multi-point, where will you put the injectors?  I would think single point (throttle body) injection would be a lot easier, and you could use the intake manifold & throttle body with injector, off of a 1.6 8v Sidekick - although you might have some challenges driving that injector from a megasquirt.

Multi-point injection can be done two ways - batch fire, where all the injectors are fired simultaneously, regardless of which cylinder is on the intake stroke, and sequential fire, where the injectors are fired individually during the intake stroke for the relevant cylinder - I doubt that you could do sequential fire with the stock distributor because all that you'll get from them is a two pulse per revolution (of the crankshaft) signal suitable for timing the ignition events, with no way to determine which cylinder is at TDC.
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara

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Offline Joesf

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Re: EFI dizzy in 88 1.3
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2018, 02:48:22 PM »
Sorry I guess with my searching for samurai specific info I didn't stop to realize this was a Suzuki forum and not a samurai forum but it seems you've guess my vehicle and location correctly.

I have a 1988 Suzuki samurai with a 1.3 carb engine with a vacuum advance distributor and I live in northern Alabama USA. I know the advantages of a external trigger wheel but that isn't the route I want to take.

I plan on running mpfi and an adapter on the carb flange to run a throttle body of my choosing.

The reason I asked about the efi distributor is because I assumed it had a VR or hall effect pick up I could use.

Why would you need an "electric distributor"?  In fact what is an "electric distributor"?

It would also be very helpful if you told us a little more about what exactly you're starting with - a 1988 what with a carb 1.3 - and maybe where you are, because whatever it is, it more than likely shipped with different configurations depending on the market it was built for.

A carbed vehicle can have either an old school breaker point ignition system, or electronic ignition in which the distributor contains an igniter that switches the coil (which, by the way, is what a US market 88 Samurai would have had) - either style can probably be used to trigger your megasquirt for both injection & ignition, assuming you're going to run single point injection or batch fired multi-point injection - if you want to control the ignition advance with the megasquirt your can either lockout the advance mechanisms on the distributor, or use the distributor only to distribute the spark and trigger the injection & ignition using a pickup and a trigger wheel mounted on the crankshaft pulley - using a trigger wheel has the advantage that you can probably use it to control sequential fire multi-point injection.

On to your last question - as far as I know all the distributors that Suzuki used with the 1.3 & 1.6 engines were electronic (ie. no breaker points) and as to whether a 1.6 distributor will fit and work with a 1.3, that's going to depend on the vehicle the engine is in - some interchange some don't.

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Re: EFI dizzy in 88 1.3
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2018, 01:49:41 PM »
Why would you need an "electric distributor"?  In fact what is an "electric distributor"?

It would also be very helpful if you told us a little more about what exactly you're starting with - a 1988 what with a carb 1.3 - and maybe where you are, because whatever it is, it more than likely shipped with different configurations depending on the market it was built for.

A carbed vehicle can have either an old school breaker point ignition system, or electronic ignition in which the distributor contains an igniter that switches the coil (which, by the way, is what a US market 88 Samurai would have had) - either style can probably be used to trigger your megasquirt for both injection & ignition, assuming you're going to run single point injection or batch fired multi-point injection - if you want to control the ignition advance with the megasquirt your can either lockout the advance mechanisms on the distributor, or use the distributor only to distribute the spark and trigger the injection & ignition using a pickup and a trigger wheel mounted on the crankshaft pulley - using a trigger wheel has the advantage that you can probably use it to control sequential fire multi-point injection.

On to your last question - as far as I know all the distributors that Suzuki used with the 1.3 & 1.6 engines were electronic (ie. no breaker points) and as to whether a 1.6 distributor will fit and work with a 1.3, that's going to depend on the vehicle the engine is in - some interchange some don't.
'98 SQ420 Grand Vitara
'05 JB420 Grand Vitara

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Offline Joesf

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EFI dizzy in 88 1.3
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2018, 11:45:25 AM »
I have a 1988 with a carb 1.3 that I'm converting to efi just as something to do and see how well I can execute it. I'll be using a megasquirt stand alone and I have everything figured out except if I want to also control ignition I'd need an electric distributor.  I'm just curious if they made an electronic distributor for the 1.3 or if a 1.6 efi distributor would fit and work in my 1.3